27 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

This is possibly the worse thing to happen to X-wing and worse that 360 primary weapon turrets Tie Phantom and Jumpmaster put together.

are you meaning now that they have spoiled the card packs?

I find them well below what I expected. should hav been faction specific. by trying to give the main 5 factions a little of something in the same card pack its not really satisfied ANY faction. certainly not single a faction friendly approach. I mean if players are happy with what ffg have put in the card packs then their expectations must have been rather low in the first place. Quite a huge miss imo. Opportunity lost.

16 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

are you meaning now that they have spoiled the card packs?

I find them well below what I expected. should hav been faction specific. by trying to give the main 5 factions a little of something in the same card pack its not really satisfied ANY faction. certainly not single a faction friendly approach. I mean if players are happy with what ffg have put in the card packs then their expectations must have been rather low in the first place. Quite a huge miss imo. Opportunity lost.

It may not be single-faction friendly, but then again, separate faction packs wouldn't really be multi-faction friendly. You'd likely end up with a bunch of wasted cards when you get too many copies of certain upgrades, and you'd definitely end up paying considerably more (I can't imagine a single faction going for as low as $5, and even that would end up costing $5 more to get all factions). And that's before we even get to the fact that faction packs would mean releasing five products instead of one, which introduces its own issues, especially if these sorts of packs become a regular thing.

I'm not saying that what they've got is the perfect solution, but rather that there is no perfect solution. Any solution that FFG came up with would have involved trade-offs somewhere.

4 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

are you meaning now that they have spoiled the card packs?

I find them well below what I expected. should hav been faction specific. by trying to give the main 5 factions a little of something in the same card pack its not really satisfied ANY faction. certainly not single a faction friendly approach. I mean if players are happy with what ffg have put in the card packs then their expectations must have been rather low in the first place. Quite a huge miss imo. Opportunity lost.

Ideally I agree, but there's probably a financial reason and/or shelf space to do it this way. L5R does the same; even if you only play Scorpion and Crane, you're not enable to buy a card pack without Dragon and Phoenix cards as well. At least it isn't as bad as CCGs.

Still, the packs are not particularly expensive, most X-Wing players play more than one faction, and couldn't you just trade or give away the cards you can't use to a player who can?

15 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

are you meaning now that they have spoiled the card packs?

I find them well below what I expected. should hav been faction specific. by trying to give the main 5 factions a little of something in the same card pack its not really satisfied ANY faction. certainly not single a faction friendly approach. I mean if players are happy with what ffg have put in the card packs then their expectations must have been rather low in the first place. Quite a huge miss imo. Opportunity lost.

You can't ask retailers to have 200 scu's. It's already getting pretty scu heavy in the x-wing line.

I don't want to pay for packaging for 5 card packs.

This setup is perfect for me.

15 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

are you meaning now that they have spoiled the card packs?

I find them well below what I expected. should hav been faction specific. by trying to give the main 5 factions a little of something in the same card pack its not really satisfied ANY faction. certainly not single a faction friendly approach. I mean if players are happy with what ffg have put in the card packs then their expectations must have been rather low in the first place. Quite a huge miss imo. Opportunity lost.

I wouldn’t say low. I would call it realistic. As @JJ48 pointed out, there was no perfect solution. Someone would be inconvenienced. So, they chose one that saved store owners space and aided those with multiple factions. It is a little tough on single faction players, but they also have the most flexibility to get together with like minded but different faction players to divide up the pack.

51 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

I wouldn’t say low. I would call it realistic. As @JJ48 pointed out, there was no perfect solution. Someone would be inconvenienced. So, they chose one that saved store owners space and aided those with multiple factions. It is a little tough on single faction players, but they also have the most flexibility to get together with like minded but different faction players to divide up the pack.

Good points. Im cooling off a bit on the value side of things. The upgrades are quite good on terms of spread. Even tho we will get some double ups there will hopefully be a bit of a secondary market for trading or selling these at my local game store. Im also ok with helping out newer players with free stuff to get the to a point where they are able to field compeitive squads.

Tbh tho i may not buy one and rely on friends to get me the 3 new pilots. There just isnt much bang for my buck there as a singke faction player. Iv wanted a copy of hate for a while but other than that not too much is essential in the pack that i need. As for upgrades well these can always be borrowed so ill be fine.

3 hours ago, SabineKey said:

So, they chose one that saved store owners space and aided those with multiple factions. It is a little tough on single faction players, but they also have the most flexibility to get together with like minded but different faction players to divide up the pack.

Unless FFG would in order

-to safe space in this pack, and money for cardboard/shipping weight

-or in order to actually purposeful make trading difficult

put pilots of 2 different factions on the same cardboard piece. (E.g. Starfortress Page on the front side, Deci Morna on the back side)

I mean it is 3 pilots per faction for 4 factions, rebels the only ones with 4 [Rebel Bias ]. Putting 2 on one cardboard (Faction X pilot 1 on ship A on one side, Faction X Pilot 2 on other ship B of same base size on the other side) , leaves 1 cardboard with an unused backside. Also several pilots are on large and medium bases. Or you to have to have 5 sheets, one for each faction, with empty or identical backsides.

The 1st ed->2nd ed conversion kits had some questionable content decisions, which made trading of components from these quite difficult.

I really really hope FFG has not done this, would be quite a [censored] move. And the potential backlash would also not be good for the game's reputation. So any savings/more income by forcing more buys as pack is un-dividable could get eaten up by irated players leaving and potentially new players more hesitant to buy in.

26 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Unless FFG would in order

-to safe space in this pack, and money for cardboard/shipping weight

-or in order to actually purposeful make trading difficult

put pilots of 2 different factions on the same cardboard piece. (E.g. Starfortress Page on the front side, Deci Morna on the back side)

I mean it is 3 pilots per faction for 4 factions, rebels the only ones with 4 [Rebel Bias ]. Putting 2 on one cardboard (Faction X pilot 1 on ship A on one side, Faction X Pilot 2 on other ship B of same base size on the other side) , leaves 1 cardboard with an unused backside. Also several pilots are on large and medium bases. Or you to have to have 5 sheets, one for each faction, with empty or identical backsides.

The 1st ed->2nd ed conversion kits had some questionable content decisions, which made trading of components from these quite difficult.

I really really hope FFG has not done this, would be quite a [censored] move. And the potential backlash would also not be good for the game's reputation. So any savings/more income by forcing more buys as pack is un-dividable could get eaten up by irated players leaving and potentially new players more hesitant to buy in.

Fair enough. There are plenty of ways for them to screw this up. And one’s perception of how likely that is will be based on their opinion of how they handled the 2.0 conversion. While I acknowledge the risk you brought up, it is a intellectual tallying of possibilities rather than a true fear for me. Time will tell.

23 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

I find them well below what I expected. should hav been faction specific. by trying to give the main 5 factions a little of something in the same card pack its not really satisfied ANY faction. certainly not single a faction friendly approach. I mean if players are happy with what ffg have put in the card packs then their expectations must have been rather low in the first place. Quite a huge miss imo. Opportunity lost.

I find them amazing.

First of all, @Marinealver's main gripe is "this is not a card game." Actually, that's basically wrong from the get go. The premium in this game is the cards: what expac do I need to buy to get the cards I want/need. Palps was are Rare Premium card in the Raider pack. People wanted the card more than the mini. No one ever whines about SHIP access, they whine about CARD access. These packs go a long way toward making that a non-issue.

Also, this game is beginning to move away from faction specificity for non-ship products. All of the Epic players need to buy the same conversion kit REGARDLESS OF FACTION. The Huge Ship Battles box is all-faction. Card packs will be all-faction.

So, you can either buy expacs out of faction to get what you want, or you can buy all-faction boosters. Which, IMHO, are **** cheap. Any other expectation is a ludicrous wish that FFG has the time and inclination to cater to a person who is only willing to buy 1/7th of their product line.

Also, I don't mean the last statement as a personal attack on you, @Da_Brown_Bomber; I think that FFG sorta expects folks to be exploring more are one faction, which would negate some of your issues.

On 8/3/2019 at 8:48 PM, Darth Meanie said:

I find them amazing.

First of all, @Marinealver's main gripe is "this is not a card game." Actually, that's basically wrong from the get go. The premium in this game is the cards: what expac do I need to buy to get the cards I want/need. Palps was are Rare Premium card in the Raider pack. People wanted the card more than the mini. No one ever whines about SHIP access, they whine about CARD access. These packs go a long way toward making that a non-issue.

Also, this game is beginning to move away from faction specificity for non-ship products. All of the Epic players need to buy the same conversion kit REGARDLESS OF FACTION. The Huge Ship Battles box is all-faction. Card packs will be all-faction.

So, you can either buy expacs out of faction to get what you want, or you can buy all-faction boosters. Which, IMHO, are **** cheap. Any other expectation is a ludicrous wish that FFG has the time and inclination to cater to a person who is only willing to buy 1/7th of their product line.

Also, I don't mean the last statement as a personal attack on you, @Da_Brown_Bomber; I think that FFG sorta expects folks to be exploring more are one faction, which would negate some of your issues.

When 2nd edition came out, I was under the impression that the app would make the cards obsolete. However with the official app being what it is and FFG making upgrade cards required instead of just having the models/ tiles and a printout from the app as a worthwhile substitute FFG made the whole card access and cross faction problem once again. This time it is now getting ridiculouse of the amount of product you wold need to fly a pilot. Say K2SO, you will first need the card pack, then you will need one of the expansion packs that has a U-wing, finally you would need the official squad builder app because FFG's fan-use of IP mandate is still a thing (your 3rd party squaduilding app can be terminated at any time).

It wasn't a card game in 1st edition, but 2nd edition which was supposed to fix the problems with 1st edition has made even more so, and that problem is turning a miniatures game into a card game.

55 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

When 2nd edition came out, I was under the impression that the app would make the cards obsolete. However with the official app being what it is and FFG making upgrade cards required instead of just having the models/ tiles and a printout from the app as a worthwhile substitute FFG made the whole card access and cross faction problem once again. This time it is now getting ridiculouse of the amount of product you wold need to fly a pilot. Say K2SO, you will first need the card pack, then you will need one of the expansion packs that has a U-wing, finally you would need the official squad builder app because FFG's fan-use of IP mandate is still a thing (your 3rd party squaduilding app can be terminated at any time).

While I see what you are saying:

A. At this point, there are a ton of pilots in the game besides K-2SO. If you want him, to the exclusion of all the other possibilities, then yeah unfortunately that's the route due to the evolution of product releases and nothing more. Maybe someday he'll get recombined elsewhere.

B. This is a hobby of disposable income in the first place, so I guess you just will be supporting the hobby??

Quote

It wasn't a card game in 1st edition, but 2nd edition which was supposed to fix the problems with 1st edition has made even more so, and that problem is turning a miniatures game into a card game.

I suppose that depends on who you are. I never, ever use the cards, so it is not even close to a card game for me. I need a dial and a mini, period (with the exception of a damage deck--my only card obligation at all). This is the main thing that keeps me buying product--the actual miniatures for which the game is named. I'll buy a repaint to get the mini even if it doesn't contain any new cards.

Over all, the cards are more of a proof-of-purchase for tournament players than anything. You can, in fact, play K2 any day of the week without the card. Heck, you can play him right bloody now because he's been revealed. But I will agree the official crApp(TM) has been a disappointment from the day it was born, and really needs to be something that supports the game rather than distracts from it. Until it prints, the App is dead to me.