First off, excuse me if this was already suggested elsewhere. I try to keep up with the forum threads but I do miss stuff every now and then.

So another discussion here got me thinking, since the X1 TIE Advanced is the prototype of the X2 TIE Avenger, which is supposed to be better (quad lasers, overall improvements, costs less as it's not a prototype but a production model, etc.) and also the Advanced in the game is considered overcosted and underplayed (except for Lord Vader's X1) maybe we could have the X2 as a non-unique title card for the Advanced.

The one thing that needs addressing the most - having insufficient firepower, ties perfectly with the main difference between X1 and X2. X2 has quad lasers instead of the X1's twin lasers. That's +1 point of attack! It works both from fluff standpoint and for game mechanics/balance as well.

The jumps from two to three points of attack should be costly as we can see if we compare other ships' stats - maybe worth around 5 or 6 points? And the Advanced is considered 2 to 3 points overcosted. So how about a title that costs 4, works on TIE Advanced only (not on Vader's X1, which is good as it is) and gives the ship a total of 3 attack dice?

That's a PS1 Atk:3, Def:3, Hull:3, Sh:2 ship with a missile slot and a fine dial at 25 points.

If we cost the title at 3 points instead I think it's a bit too strong - for just 3 points more than an X-Wing you get +1 defence. That'd be too good I think.

I think it looks comparable to the 30 point PS1 defender, which for it's 5 extra points gets a cannon slot, a shield and a sweet K-Turn.

What do you think?

This of course is just an idea. I do think the game is fine as it is, but that's a small thing that can be tried in casual games until we get our hands on those sweet Wave 4 ships!!

That's a PS1 Atk:3, Def:3, Hull:3, Sh:2 ship with a missile slot and a fine dial at 25 points.

That is very similar to the E-Wing. So 27 points is a good place to start.

Why 27? it should be 25/26 to start

(because shields costs 1 more than hull [E-wing have 2 hulls and 3 shields, then it costs 1 point more than 3 hulls and 2 shield) and Avenger only have missile slot upgrade, E-wing have missile, droid and systems)

I prefer it to have its own mold/model and different cards entirely, just to skip Vader and avoid abuse. The main reason, I like the Avenger model way better than the Advanced.

Why hating on Vader? Sure he is the only Advanced pilot who isn't completely useless because he has a decent squad leader role, but he's still inferior to a Fel as a fighter.

yet another 'how to fix the Tie Advanced' ....

The Tie Advanced and the Tie Avenger are 2 different ships.

Recognize the 4 interceptorish wings with laser cannons?

Why hating on Vader? Sure he is the only Advanced pilot who isn't completely useless because he has a decent squad leader role, but he's still inferior to a Fel as a fighter.

Not hating, just acknowledging Vader's built in stressless PTL.

Why hating on Vader? Sure he is the only Advanced pilot who isn't completely useless because he has a decent squad leader role, but he's still inferior to a Fel as a fighter.

Not hating, just acknowledging Vader's built in stressless PTL.

Which would be nice on a ship that isn't crap.

Why hating on Vader? Sure he is the only Advanced pilot who isn't completely useless because he has a decent squad leader role, but he's still inferior to a Fel as a fighter.

Not hating, just acknowledging Vader's built in stressless PTL.

Which would be nice on a ship that isn't crap.

True, I would say it'll be Killer

yet another 'how to fix the Tie Advanced' ....

The Tie Advanced and the Tie Avenger are 2 different ships.

Recognize the 4 interceptorish wings with laser cannons?

And Ovoid cockpit.

yet another 'how to fix the Tie Advanced' ....

The Tie Advanced and the Tie Avenger are 2 different ships.

Recognize the 4 interceptorish wings with laser cannons?

Well if they ain't going to make the Tie-Avenger for the game WHY NOT make it a title Card for the Tie-Advanced making it a more competitive ship with the stats lffo proposed. Tie-Advanced is the prototype which leads to the creation of the Tie-Avenger.

It could be a new ship that comes with a title card for the advanced to let the unique advanced pilots use an avenger.

Why 27? it should be 25/26 to start

(because shields costs 1 more than hull [E-wing have 2 hulls and 3 shields, then it costs 1 point more than 3 hulls and 2 shield) and Avenger only have missile slot upgrade, E-wing have missile, droid and systems)

I prefer it to have its own mold/model and different cards entirely, just to skip Vader and avoid abuse. The main reason, I like the Avenger model way better than the Advanced.

yet another 'how to fix the Tie Advanced' ....

The Tie Advanced and the Tie Avenger are 2 different ships.

Recognize the 4 interceptorish wings with laser cannons?

Which FFG has seemingly rolled into one.

• Only Vader has TIE Advanced x1 (the ship we have the model of) as his ship name. The others have TIE advanced without it. (edit: Written on the cards themselves, in case unclear)
• TIE avenger is an in-universe nickname. Its actual name is a TIE advanced. Vader's ship and all ships that look like it are TIE advanced x1s.
• Maarek Steele is the best known Avenger pilot.
• The TIE avenger lies between the x1 and the Defender in terms of power. There's very little design space between the x1 and the Defender and FFG likes to make the ships all play differently rather than powerscaling the same ship (hence the stuff they did with the TIE defender).

It's far more likely IMO that if they do do the Avenger it'll be an Aces type thing for the Advanced with a title card.

Fluff logistics aside, I'd use something like this and even made a similar suggestion (though it used the missile slot ala the A-Wing). My main concern is finding a legitimate role for the Advanced as a mid-range fighter between the Interceptor and Defender without defeating the purpose of those ships. Right now, the Advanced has no role. Bomber does missiles better, Interceptor (and Defender) are better at the speed game. Makes sense to make the Advanced an Imperial X-Wing that trades some speed for hull/shield. As such, it needs more damage potential.

There isn't a unique role that fits the Avenger's place. The idea of a damage title card packaged with an Avenger resculpt is much more likely than an Avenger in its own right imo.

Which FFG has seemingly rolled into one.

• Only Vader has TIE Advanced x1 (the ship we have the model of) as his ship name. The others have TIE advanced without it.
• TIE avenger is an in-universe nickname. Its actual name is a TIE advanced. Vader's ship and all ships that look like it are TIE advanced x1s.
• Maarek Steele is the best known Avenger pilot.
• The TIE avenger lies between the x1 and the Defender in terms of power. There's very little design space between the x1 and the Defender and FFG likes to make the ships all play differently rather than powerscaling the same ship (hence the stuff they did with the TIE defender).

It's far more likely IMO that if they do do the Avenger it'll be an Aces type thing for the Advanced with a title card.

FFG has not in any way combined any of the TIE Avenger capabilities into the TIE Advanced x1, except that you have non-Vader pilots flying it. Even that I believe is covered in the background material, there may have been a couple squadrons of early prototype ships.

• The TIE Avenger would be 3/3/3/4 with a much better dial than the Interceptor, all of its actions, plus target lock and a missile slot.
• The TIE Defender (in theory) should have been 3/3/3/4, with the same as the above TIE Avenger, plus a cannon slot, a beam weapon, and possibly a System Upgrade. The pre-nerf TIE Defender would have been 3/3/3/8.

Given FFG's reveal of the TIE Defender with a distinct lack of anything unique other than a white K-turn, or even the "correct" stat line, there isn't much design room for the TIE Avenger. They could make it a 3/3/3/3 TIE Interceptor with Missile and Target Lock.

yet another 'how to fix the Tie Advanced' ....

The Tie Advanced and the Tie Avenger are 2 different ships.

Recognize the 4 interceptorish wings with laser cannons?

And Ovoid cockpit.

The cockpit is not ovoid as can plainly be seen in the illustration. I have seen some Shapeways 3D printed models with the ovoid cockpit and others with a more traditional, TIE Advanced cockpit (like the one illustrated) and the ovoid ones just look like crap (as i they look like they were based on 1980s era computer graphics... which they were). I have three of Gosric's TIE Avengers which look like the one illustrated, and they look awesome!

Which FFG has seemingly rolled into one.

• Only Vader has TIE Advanced x1 (the ship we have the model of) as his ship name. The others have TIE advanced without it.
• TIE avenger is an in-universe nickname. Its actual name is a TIE advanced. Vader's ship and all ships that look like it are TIE advanced x1s.
• Maarek Steele is the best known Avenger pilot.
• The TIE avenger lies between the x1 and the Defender in terms of power. There's very little design space between the x1 and the Defender and FFG likes to make the ships all play differently rather than powerscaling the same ship (hence the stuff they did with the TIE defender).

It's far more likely IMO that if they do do the Avenger it'll be an Aces type thing for the Advanced with a title card.

FFG has not in any way combined any of the TIE Avenger capabilities into the TIE Advanced x1, except that you have non-Vader pilots flying it. Even that I believe is covered in the background material, there may have been a couple squadrons of early prototype ships.

• The TIE Avenger would be 3/3/3/4 with a much better dial than the Interceptor, all of its actions, plus target lock and a missile slot.
• The TIE Defender (in theory) should have been 3/3/3/4, with the same as the above TIE Avenger, plus a cannon slot, a beam weapon, and possibly a System Upgrade. The pre-nerf TIE Defender would have been 3/3/3/8.

Given FFG's reveal of the TIE Defender with a distinct lack of anything unique other than a white K-turn, or even the "correct" stat line, there isn't much design room for the TIE Avenger. They could make it a 3/3/3/3 TIE Interceptor with Missile and Target Lock.

yet another 'how to fix the Tie Advanced' ....

The Tie Advanced and the Tie Avenger are 2 different ships.

Recognize the 4 interceptorish wings with laser cannons?

Which FFG has seemingly rolled into one.

• Only Vader has TIE Advanced x1 (the ship we have the model of) as his ship name. The others have TIE advanced without it.
• TIE avenger is an in-universe nickname. Its actual name is a TIE advanced. Vader's ship and all ships that look like it are TIE advanced x1s.
• Maarek Steele is the best known Avenger pilot.
• The TIE avenger lies between the x1 and the Defender in terms of power. There's very little design space between the x1 and the Defender and FFG likes to make the ships all play differently rather than powerscaling the same ship (hence the stuff they did with the TIE defender).

It's far more likely IMO that if they do do the Avenger it'll be an Aces type thing for the Advanced with a title card.

So the TIE Avenger will be a slightly toned down Defender, with a better (or at least... different) maneuver dial, most likely based on the TIE Advanced but with Evade (as it is a nimble little ship) and probably Boost (as it is notably fast).

I'm probably understanding this wrong but did you just directly contradict your own argument? You're saying FFG hasn't combined them because it doesn't follow the TIE fighter game's stats, and then you say (correctly) that the TIE defender doesn't. If they don't for the defender why would they for the avenger?

So the TIE Avenger will be a slightly toned down Defender

Not FFG's modus operandi. Note the red turns on the defender, nowhere in EU does the defender have any issues turning. They did that to give it its own role. If they can't find a niche for the Avenger they won't make it, and given they've already thrown the traditional Avenger stuff at the Advanced, an Avenger's unlikely.

yet another 'how to fix the Tie Advanced' ....

The Tie Advanced and the Tie Avenger are 2 different ships.

Recognize the 4 interceptorish wings with laser cannons?

And Ovoid cockpit.

The cockpit is not ovoid as can plainly be seen in the illustration. I have seen some Shapeways 3D printed models with the ovoid cockpit and others with a more traditional, TIE Advanced cockpit (like the one illustrated) and the ovoid ones just look like crap (as i they look like they were based on 1980s era computer graphics... which they were). I have three of Gosric's TIE Avengers which look like the one illustrated, and they look awesome!

Oops, sorry. You're right, I meant to say the missile launchers on the side of the cockpit. (I assume that's what they are).

It would be interesting to the the Avenger model FFG made if they did though. When they source things from video games they tend to pretty them up (Phantom, Defender, Crow) and they all but redesigned the Z-95 (it's much bulkier not to mention the underwing missile launchers that are completely new)

I'm probably understanding this wrong but did you just directly contradict your own argument? You're saying FFG hasn't combined them because it doesn't follow the TIE fighter game's stats, and then you say (correctly) that the TIE defender doesn't. If they don't for the defender why would they for the avenger?

1. The TIE Advanced x1 stats and capabilities follow the background material.
2. The TIE Defender stats and capabilities do not follow the background material.
3. The TIE Avenger capabilities (dial better than TIE Interceptor, boost action, 3/3/3/4 stats) are not on the TIE Advanced x1.
4. The TIE Avenger capabilities cannot all be added by a simple TIE Advanced x1 only modification card, even if this card added 1 attack, 2 shields, and the Boost action. You need to drastically change the dial to be accurate.
5. The TIE Avenger capabilities are clearly in a whole other league above the TIE Advanced x1, and the physical model is also drastically different. I am strongly of the opinion that the TIE Avenger is worth its own release if they choose to implement it.
6. The TIE Advanced x1 being overcosted is independent of all of this, and can be fixed by adding a free FCS, and reducing the cost of the Tempest, Storm, and Maarek pilots by 1 point.
7. If you attempt to "fix" the x1 by turning it into the Avenger, then it does nothing for the unmodified x1, which will still remain overcosted. You're also severely breaking cannon, as Vader was not flying an Avenger. See point #1.

Economy of scale. 3/3/3/anything greater than 3 would have made the ship annoying. There are lots of ways to give ships unique uses. The White Kturn is a great one. By denying the Defnder Boost and evade they left themselves valuable options. The Avenger could quite easily be the imperial tank even with an identical statline. Give it Boost, Evade, Barrel Roll, and a different set of upgrades. Probably a sensor slot.

Cost is the great equalizer. There is no reason you can't have a 3/3/3/4 ship, it just needs to be costed correctly. It costs 42+ points to get a named Falcon, and that's not imbalanced. 3/3/3/4 on a small base would cost much less.

I think the Avenger should warrant its own release also. There's too much of a divergence from the basic X1 model to use a title card to change the two of them.

My hope is that the Advanced and the Assault gunboat are the closest starfighters to perform like rebel ships, for the Empire. The Advanced would be a heavier hitting A-Wing and the Assault Gunboat trades firepower from the X-Wing for secondary weapons options.

If the TIE Advanced is supposed to be the "Imperial" X-Wing I could see the "Avenger" as simply switching the 2 and 3 from Attack and Hull. Give it a 3/3/2/2 stat line and you've got all the same numbers the X-Wing has and get a ship that hits harder than an A-Wing but takes hits better than an Interceptor even if it isn't quite as maneuverable on the dial.