The new Forge World Horus Heresy Book: Extermination has a list of common ship classes and patterns at the beginning of the Heresy, if anybodies interested.

The names would be very interesting for background certainly, but I'm assuming there aren't RT-compatible stats for them... are there?

Please say there are.

No. In fairness, the statline of a Gloriana-class flagship is " You Lose. Deal With It ."

A heresy era 'crusade expeditionary fleet' sourcebook would be cool - either as a rogue trader expansion or potentially as a new game line - if (when?) DH2 kicks off and they want a second line, a crusade fleet allows for diplomacy as well as war, and combinations of Astartes and human characters - essentially Black Crusade for the good guys!

There's a few bits of artwork, too:

And yes, if you have trouble making it out, that blob in the middle is a to-scale Cobra -class Torpedo Destroyer. Iron Blood is big .

Bear in mind that most Heresy Era unique Astartes ships were used as the baseline for grand cruisers and battlecruisers. Hence the Tribune appearing to be a prototype Avenger-class grand cruiser with a spinal weapon and extra launch tubes at the front

Achem.

HH ship Retcons: Lunar class now dates back the the Crusade. Previously they were unknown before M35. Nicor was now a one off. Previously she had been a Charybdis class grand cruiser (Implying there were at the very least several of these).

Tribune is NOT a grand cruiser. According to the fluff, she is a heavily modified Victory class battleship. Her hull just means she was not built at Mars or Voss (her launch was at Inwit, according to fluff, but that pattern hull was probably also used at the yards at Saturn, (like all Imperial ships, each yard produces a slightly different looking warship. See the difference between ships made at Voss with those launched at Mars, etc.)

Vics are typically heavy lance boats, similar to the Apoc. Interestingly, she has a Modified Drive, the work having been done at Ryza. Tribune is heavily modified however, Carrying an armored prow, torpedoes AND a prow bombardment cannon. Her other weapons are given in a very vague way so it's hard ot say exactly what she has.

And Yes, Gloriana classes are huge, but Space Hulks can be much, much bigger. And there are rules for those. and Eldar Craft Worlds. (in BFG anyway).

The Galleas of War class intrigues me. Apparently it's Grand Cruiser sized, larger physically, and is meant for freight and transportation of stuff. They were the flagships of the most powerful Rogue Traders Militant.

I want.

I didn't get the book, just got a peek at a few pages. But there's some juicy stuff.

The Galleas of War class intrigues me. Apparently it's Grand Cruiser sized, larger physically, and is meant for freight and transportation of stuff. They were the flagships of the most powerful Rogue Traders Militant.

I want.

I didn't get the book, just got a peek at a few pages. But there's some juicy stuff.

You have, Galleas is a type of Galleon. Star Galleons appear in Battlefleet Koronus, and date back to the Great Crusade.

Reading through IA2: 2nd Ed. Rogue Traders are now, with Inquisitors, allowed Land Raiders.

Reading through IA2: 2nd Ed. Rogue Traders are now, with Inquisitors, allowed Land Raiders.

... which is heresy, as was so extensively discussed in the OW beta forum.

The Galleas of War class intrigues me. Apparently it's Grand Cruiser sized, larger physically, and is meant for freight and transportation of stuff. They were the flagships of the most powerful Rogue Traders Militant.

I want.

I didn't get the book, just got a peek at a few pages. But there's some juicy stuff.

You have, Galleas is a type of Galleon. Star Galleons appear in Battlefleet Koronus, and date back to the Great Crusade.

Reading through IA2: 2nd Ed. Rogue Traders are now, with Inquisitors, allowed Land Raiders.

It's a type of Galleon, but it's not a Star Galleon. It was in the same section as Grand Cruisers and were described as even being larger than Grand Cruisers. That's not the Conquest.

Reading through IA2: 2nd Ed. Rogue Traders are now, with Inquisitors, allowed Land Raiders.

... which is heresy, as was so extensively discussed in the OW beta forum.

Actually it makes a sort of sense, as the Land Raider Proteus was primarily an hazardous exploration vehicle, not a front line combat machine like the Mk2B.

It's not Heresy, as long as the Emperor signed off on it.

Interestingly, I'll also point out the great logical oddity of 40k: the Emperor banned Worship of Him. This was never rescinded. So does that not make the worship of the Emperor , Heresy?

It's a type of Galleon, but it's not a Star Galleon. It was in the same section as Grand Cruisers and were described as even being larger than Grand Cruisers. That's not the Conquest.

Hmmm.... re-reading it, you're right. It sounds like an up armored/gunned version of a Universe class. Logically it would follow the same pattern as a Conquest, but on a larger scale, with three port/starboard slots.

Breaking down the list by catagory, and what game they actually have stats in.

Battleships:

Goliath (no stats)

Gloriana: (Surprisingly, BFG has stats for Vengeful Spirit in FAQ 2010, though they clearly predate current fluff)

Victory: (BFG)

Retribution (BFG)

Infernus (No Stats)

Retribution (BFG)

Imperator (ie Emperor class, BFG)

Tiamat (no stats)

Ironclad (unsure if this is referring to an Ironclad as in a battleship with no warp drive, or a new class)

Warspite (basic battlebarge, BFG)

Dictatus (no stats, possibly Desolator)

Mortis Rex (no stats)

Grand Cruisers:

Avenger (BFG, BFK)

Dagon (no stats)

Inflexible (no stats)

Maelstrom (no stats)

(note, one of these is most likely Repulsive , Maelstrom or Dagon may or may not be Charybdis )

Galleass of War:

Odysseus (no Stats)

Crusiers:

Lunar (BFG/RT) (Again, this is a massive retcon of Lunars having come into existence in M35, as a replacement to the Murder )

Hades (BFG, Heavy Cruiser version of Murder)

Cardinal (BFGM, Heavy Cruiser version of Murder, unusual in that it's torpedo batteries are not front fire only.)

Hellfire (BFGM: Heavy Cruiser version of Murder. Suffered from same issues as Armageddon hull does in BFK with insufficient space)

Olympia: (BFG, standard SM strike cruiser)

Siluria (BFG)

Eclipse (no stats)

Armiger (no Stats, possibly later Murder, based on name)

Tetsujin (no stats)

Bellerophon (no stats)

Escorts:

Sword (BFG, RT)

Thunderbolt (no stats, old Space Fleet escort, listed as a Heavy Frigate)

Scepter (no stats)

Havoc (RT, BFG FAQ 2010)

Baron (no stats)

Harpy (No stats)

Stalwart (No stats, listed as a mine layer/sweeper?)

Vigil (no stats,listed as a siege frigate??)

Specter (no stats, but description suggests this is similar to Viper)

Cobra (BFG/RT)

Thor (Ordinancer?? Assuming this is a ship for orbital fire support)

Achem.

Nicor was now a one off. Previously she had been a Charybdis class grand cruiser (Implying there were at the very least several of these).

Speculation: perhaps it's a Terminus Est/Despoiler Battleship situation? The Terminus Est was a one off, but was so successful that the Despoiler class was based around the original design. Perhaps the Nicor was a one off which influenced a later Charybdis class?

Although thinking it through, logically you can have a class of just one vessel...

But I do have a vague idea there was a mention of a Charybdis class vessel in the canon somewhere prior to the Badab War books. Was there something in Warp Storm about them?

More speculation:

Wasn't the Stalwart class another old Space Fleet vessel?

I wonder what a "siege frigate" is? How would that work?

Thor: maybe a monitor? An over gunned small vessel? I imagine this looking a bit like the old Space Fleet Annihilator battleship, but that's just me,

The general idea of a siege frigate is just that it's specialised for hitting planetary targets, to the cost of being able to engage targets in the void. Airbursting macro-cannons, lances with adjusted focal lengths for more accurate fire in atmosphere, etc.

Actually it makes a sort of sense, as the Land Raider Proteus was primarily an hazardous exploration vehicle, not a front line combat machine like the Mk2B.

It's not Heresy, as long as the Emperor signed off on it.

Interestingly, I'll also point out the great logical oddity of 40k: the Emperor banned Worship of Him. This was never rescinded. So does that not make the worship of the Emperor , Heresy?

We don't know what happened - yet - and how the Ecclesiarchy comes into existance will be one of the big "hmmm?" moments of the end of the heresy and the early scouring. Along with "what the hell happened to the Sisters of Silence?" and "where was the Phalanx during the siege of Terra?"

Although thinking it through, logically you can have a class of just one vessel...

Historical examples of this exist. Though the class is traditionally named after the first ship of the class IIRC

Historical examples of this exist. Though the class is traditionally named after the first ship of the class IIRC

True dat. Baronlveagh is extremely knowledegable about matters Naval in 40k, and as such well versed in identifying canon conflicts, and it looks like he's onto something here. I like to try and find a way to smooth over canon conflicts, myself!

I like the Charybdis class, the Nicor as portrayed in the Badab War books was a charismatic vessel. I did a write up for the class for RT a while back. I haven't read the new HH Extermination book yet, so it'll be interesting to see how it's dealt with.

As for a siege frigate, Errant, it's an interesting concept. If it's optimised for planetary bombardment at the cost of ship to ship ability, it would make an interesting Rogue Trader Vessel. RTs rarely go head to head with an entire equiv-tech world: if they're going to go to war against a planet with just one ship, it'll usually be against a more primitive society. So such a vessel would logically be attractive for a Rogue Trader.

The names would be very interesting for background certainly, but I'm assuming there aren't RT-compatible stats for them... are there?

Please say there are.

Charibdys Class Grand Cruiser

Dimensions: 7.5 km long, 1.75km long at fins

Mass: 31 Megatonnes approx

Crew: 127,000 approx

Accel: 3.5 gravities max sustainable acceleration

Virtually nothing is now known of the mysterious Charibdys class grand cruisers. No extant examples are known to remain in the service of any Imperial organisations. The only known ship of this type to be encountered in the last 3,000 years appeared as a major component of the space hulk “The Ruin of Ages” in 915 M38, and this was seized by the Adeptus Mechanicus as valuable archeotech. However, rumours of ships matching the class’ description conducting terrifying campaigns against rebel-held worlds on the fringes of the Imperium have filtered back into civilised space for millennia.

What little is known of the class beyond the secretive Magi of the Mechanicus is based upon a worn and tattered parchment copy of a ship recognition guide issued to the Imperial Navy in M32. Known as the “Dessey fragment,” this record pictures a vessel which appears to owe much in its outline to what is now known as the Repulsive Class Grand Cruiser. However, the Charibdys appeared to deviate even further than the Repulsive from what is now the standard Imperial ship design template. The fragment pictures a sleek, narrow vessel lacking the “Imperial prow” and equipped instead with high dorsal and ventral control vanes, and a massive maw-like prow launch bay.

The performance figures for the Charibdys Class quoted in the body of the Dessey fragment are widely believed to be a hoax, as few modern commentators can believe that a ship so large could attain the speeds ascribed to it. If the fragment is to be believed, however, this ship must have been a truly terrifying opponent, forced by its unusual design to favour an aggressive attack pattern.

Speed: 6 Manoeuvrability: +9

Detection: +10 Hull Integrity: 82

Armour: 19 Turret Rating: 3

Space: 90 SP: 74

Weapon Capacity: Prow 2, Starboard 2, Port 2

Grand Cruiser: This weapon may use “Cruiser only” Components.

Void Predator: Due to the unusual configuration of this vessel, Launch bays may be mounted in the Prow weapon slots. In fact, they must be mounted in the prow, if chosen. No Launch bays may be mounted on the port or starboard slots.

Don't forget the new weapons mentioned, exo-laser spinal weapons and ursus claws.

Charibdys Class Grand Cruiser

Speed: 6 Manoeuvrability: +9

Detection: +10 Hull Integrity: 82

Armour: 19 Turret Rating: 3

Space: 90 SP: 74

Weapon Capacity: Prow 2, Starboard 2, Port 2

Grand Cruiser: This weapon may use “Cruiser only” Components.

Void Predator: Due to the unusual configuration of this vessel, Launch bays may be mounted in the Prow weapon slots. In fact, they must be mounted in the prow, if chosen. No Launch bays may be mounted on the port or starboard slots.

Not correct. This is what I got when I ran her backwards through the Venerable Battlebarge rules for BFG, converted to RT. (I changed one prow to a Dorsal assuming the Plasma Destructor was a Spinal mount weapon that ran to her prow. That and four prow slots seemed excessive). Note: the secondary bridge is based off references to SM having this. It's never been clear if SM ships were picked for this characteristic, or if this was something the SM did to them.

Speed: 7 Maneuverability: +10

Detection: +10 Hull Integrity: 90

Armour: 24 Turret Rating: 3

Space: 100 SP: 90

Weapon Capacity: Prow 3, Starboard 3, Port 3, Dorsal 1

Grand Cruiser: This weapon may use “Cruiser only” Components.

Carrier: Two Prow Slots are Occupied by Jovian Pattern Landing Bays. These May not be removed.

Mass Teleportation: If this ship is fitted with a Teleportarium, the Space and Power requirements are doubled. However, any test involving the teleportarium receives a +20 bonus and any player characters automatically have the benefits of a teleport homer. This teleportarium is capable of teleporting vehicles.

Secondary Bridge: This ship can fit an additional bridge component. On a 'bridge destroyed' critical the player may select which bridge was destroyed.

Potent Shields: Any void shield component installed on this ship gains +2 Strength.

Don't forget the new weapons mentioned, exo-laser spinal weapons and ursus claws.

There is a chain-grapnel battery somewhere in the rules already, which is essentially what ursus claws are.

Actually it makes a sort of sense, as the Land Raider Proteus was primarily an hazardous exploration vehicle, not a front line combat machine like the Mk2B.

It's not Heresy, as long as the Emperor signed off on it.

Remember that Inquisitors and Rogue Traders get an 'out' in terms of Imperial Restrictions because they are considered to have Imperial Authority - i.e. they speak directly for the Emperor in their sphere of authority and can grant themselves an exemption in a way a Guard officer can't.

True, but in the case of Land Raiders you have a direct instruction from the Emperor that they are to be used only by the SMs. Even someone who claims to 'speak directly for the Emperor' may have trouble directly flouting his instructions. While an Inquisitor or a RT might be able to get away with using them, it could be problematic (it would essentially come down to who has the most influence - the RT or the person accusing him of Heresy).

Amusingly the Emperor's instruction re: Land Raiders was just an emergency measure due to the Horus Heresy. Until then LRs were split between the marines and the Imperial army, but due to the war there was a shortage. The marines needed as many as they could get hold of, so the Emperor essentially just ordered all loyalist forces to turn over their raiders to any marines that wanted them. It was only meant to be a temporary measure... but then it became holy scripture.

Amusingly the Emperor's instruction re: Land Raiders was just an emergency measure due to the Horus Heresy. Until then LRs were split between the marines and the Imperial army, but due to the war there was a shortage. The marines needed as many as they could get hold of, so the Emperor essentially just ordered all loyalist forces to turn over their raiders to any marines that wanted them. It was only meant to be a temporary measure... but then it became holy scripture.

Actually it's not clear anymore if he didn't exempt Rogue Traders to begin with. The text in IA suggests that Rogue Traders are "invested with unusual freedom in this" and thus it would have to have always been this way. Again, this may have been a practical order, as Rogue Traders Militant would have been too far from Terra to have any hope of compliance, and at the time, the Land Raider Proteus was more or less standard issue to them.

The gaping hole in this whole thing is that while there was early faith in the Emperor, the sort of organized faith that would have prohibited countermanding his order once the emergency passed did not come into that level of power for another two or three centuries following his ascent to the Golden Throne. There's also the prickly issue of the Nova Terra Interregnum, who's sudden rejoining of the Imperium seems to have several conflicting accounts, and may be the source of the sudden ('recent')loss of most of Segmentum Pacificus