He's still a credited creative consultant, which is more than nothing. He just has zero decision making power.

One should never say the players aren't alowed to kill XXX. There story is your players and your story. The main characters are no longer the heroes of the movies. The PCs are now the main heroes. You should treat them as such. once the PCs step into the game they should have the freedom to try to do anything.

One should never say never.

One should always be accommodating when possible. As a GM I always try to listen to my players, but I do not always say yes. Most of the people that I play with are not interested in sharing the stage with named characters, except maybe tangentially. They prefer their own stories with their own villains and nemesis.

Well for me I just worry what my players will want. Like HK from the KOTOR games which I like as a character in the video games but could give a flying rip after that honestly. I even have a sinking suspicion that one of my players will insist to have that frame as his droid character. Now while I wouldn't care about the frame he will insist on the stats and that is where my migraine begins. He would also insist on the memories and I would say no and he would sulk. It is actually quite an annoying situation but thankfully I have a work around for it. As for what is canon for my game I will be honest all of it. I know the EU well enough to work with whatever but I plan on running an alternate timeline game so Episode 3 and beyond is the stopping point of the traditional timeline.

Generally, and I know this will sound facetious but it's actually fairly close to the truth, everything is cannon except for Ja Ja Binks and that Gungan accent.uff.

I know I'm in the minority for liking him but my safety net is, when I first saw him, I was his target audience. I never got around to figring out I was supposed to hate him and, at this point, he's one of my most vivid Star Wars memories! Of all the aliens in Star Wars, the only ones I can describe from memory are gungans, twileks and wookiees. The rest are just a mish mashed image of weird parts and animal features that I can't separate in my mind any more.

At the table, I think anything could be canon if it sounds like it will make a good story. They may have to show me an example from Wookieepedia, if I'm not familiar with it, but if they make a good case and it won't completely derail the overarching story, I'll probably consider most things.

For me personally, I don't know if I have a personal canon, there are things I like and things I dislike about SW. Anakin's character drives me nuts, but I can't just pretend he never existed. I like to think that he was a little older than he is depicted in The Phantom Menace, but other than that I pretty much accept him. I guess that's how I approach most canon on a personal level, things that just don't feel right get ignored or adjusted, but my and large I accept what we've been give in all the different formats.

Episodes I-IX will be canon, along with The clone Wars cgi series, Rebels (series) and Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series. (Kyle Katarn).

For me, episodes VII-IX will depend on what's in them. I honestly don't trust George Lucas (do any of us?) not to introduce something awful that we don't want.

You know Lucas has nothing to do with the new movies, right?

Actually, I didn't. I don't know who will be doing them, but unless it's Michael Bay I can't really see this as anything but a positive. I've always seen Star Wars as good almost inspite of Lucas. He has a certain raw and crude brilliance, but he doesn't know when to turn it off. Opening shot of Star Wars where the SD appears over our heads pursuing the smaller ship? Magnificent, primitive grandeur. Anakin telling Padme that "he trusts the kiss that they shared will not become a scar upon his heart" - not so much.

Simplistic overkill is Lucas' thing so far as I can tell. That works with spaceships and swords (let's make them bigger, let's make them out of lasers). Doesn't work with human relationships or subtle humour.

Generally, and I know this will sound facetious but it's actually fairly close to the truth, everything is cannon except for Ja Ja Binks and that Gungan accent.uff.

NO JAR JAR!?!?!?!

I know I'm in the minority for liking him but my safety net is, when I first saw him, I was his target audience. I never got around to figring out I was supposed to hate him and, at this point, he's one of my most vivid Star Wars memories! Of all the aliens in Star Wars, the only ones I can describe from memory are gungans, twileks and wookiees. The rest are just a mish mashed image of weird parts and animal features that I can't separate in my mind any more.

Well I'll grant you that he's memorable, there's no argument there.

I don't judge you for liking him, I'm glad some people do. But for me it's like someone dropped Adam Sandler into the series and gave him a really high annoying voice and an offensive accent. It's just awful and jars with the actors in the rest of the tone and murders any hope of drama whenever he appears.

For anyone who doesn't like JarJar, watch the gungan/battledroid battle sped up with yakkity sax playing.

For anyone who doesn't like JarJar, watch the gungan/battledroid battle sped up with yakkity sax playing.

Do you mean like this?

Cracks me up everytime!

I have one question to my favourite geeky lore masters XD

There is any CLEAR evidence on movies and clone wars (without considering Dathomir regenerative/healing magic) that Force Users/Jedi healing themselfs/another or just a simply "fast recovery" ability/power?

What does Obi with Padme and Luke, just check that they are fine, stabilize them or else? There is any reference please?

Thanks!

I have one question to my favourite geeky lore masters XD

There is any CLEAR evidence on movies and clone wars (without considering Dathomir regenerative/healing magic) that Force Users/Jedi healing themselfs/another or just a simply "fast recovery" ability/power?

What does Obi with Padme and Luke, just check that they are fine, stabilize them or else? There is any reference please?

Thanks!

I'm certain that some more knowledgeable person will come along any second, but Darth Plagueis was apparently able to keep people from dying. So if he could do that, presumably lesser Force users could heal. At least potentially.

Actually, according to the novel, Plagueis never succeeded in that task. He was never able to manipulated the medichlorians to prevent someone from dying. In all his scientific research he found that any attempt to do so would cause a violent backlash with the medichlorians, think a biological form of karma.

Palps merely told Anakin what he wanted to hear. Which to be honest is what I would expect from him.

Oh, and to all you guys bemoaning medichlorians, next time you go to your doctors ask if the magic pixies inside you keep carrying oxygen through your system. The Jedi had thousands of years of peace to explore what the Force is, think scientists are not going to try and 'explain' the force. Just plugging your ears and going "lalalalalalalala!" is not going to suddenly make it all go away.

Oh, and to all you guys bemoaning medichlorians, next time you go to your doctors ask if the magic pixies inside you keep carrying oxygen through your system. The Jedi had thousands of years of peace to explore what the Force is, think scientists are not going to try and 'explain' the force. Just plugging your ears and going "lalalalalalalala!" is not going to suddenly make it all go away.

The problems with the "scientific" explanation for the Force are threefold to us 'moaners'. The minor objection is that it is laughably bad "science" and a bad copy-paste of mitochondria, which are the semi-symbiotic residents in our cells that have their own DNA and act as power-houses for our bodies. That poor copy-paste and pseudo-science bothers a few people. But what bothers all of us who do not like it are the following two major issues.

(1) By making "The Force" something often inheritable and always something that a Jedi simply has in the same way someone has blonde-hair or immunity to sickle-cell anaemia, the idea at a single stroke diminishes agency from the Jedi. They are simply beneficiaries of 'good genes' for want of a better term. The notion of the galaxy depending on, heroics coming down to, specialness of Luke being, something akin to a genetic quirk, takes away greatly from the specialness of the Jedi and representative characters.

(2) By making the Force a medical thing, it takes away from the spiritual and mystery aspect incalculably. Where once was a mystical analogy for spirituality and enlightenment, you have something that one can take a blood sample and measure. It becomes no longer representative of spirituality, oneness with the universe or an equalizer between all beings. It's a high blood-cell count with built in telekinesis.

These are the two chief reasons why people hated this addition, and they're very supportable reasons as shown.

Not to mention that it would make hunting Jedis or finding usable lackeys (read Hand of the Emperor) easier then ever.

Make attending public schools with health checks including blood tests mandatory on every planet, set an amount of midichlorians to trigger an Inquisitor showing up, and either get a new candidate for your shadow ops or a hidden Jedi with his children.

Corran Horn would have never existed.

I respect your views, but I respectfully disagree. Midichlorians have never been an indication of "this user can use the force" or "this user cannot use the force" simply because of the count. The way I've seen it is that it denotes how easy or difficult it is for that person to tap into the force. Anyone can do it, but it all comes down to the training and attitude of the person in question.

Plus the force has always been a medical thing if you go by the EU. The galaxy wasn't born with this idea of 'The Force', according to Dawn of the Jedi, the Force was 'discovered' by scientists and philosophers on Tython. However let's throw that out and keep it to the movies for the sake of debate.

We were told from the start in episode IV that the force was an energy field that encompasses all living things, surrounds us and binds the galaxy together. All very spiritual, all very good and well for a modern retelling of the heroes journey.

In Episode I we are not told anything opposite, all we are told is that Midichlorians exist in all life and help us tap into the force. Think of the symbolism that is going on in these movies. The Jedi by the time of Episode I were sterile and stagnant, they had endured years of peace and long let go of their ideals so much so that they were defeated even before Palpatine showed up on the scene.

Most, not all, of naturally occurring instances in our reality can be explained by science. I will also repeat that not everything has been explained due to lack of technology or viable research. Most of these things were previously seen as spiritual things and sometimes even the science behind those cannot help us predict those natural occurances, such as the weather.

I feel the Force has a mystical following but has some scientific basis. Either way, it doesn't matter, the point is it can do these incredible things. Just because science has disproved some religious passages, it hasn't stopped people following those religious groups.

As for hunting Jedi's, it's kind of a moot point. The Jedi have mostly been hunted extinct plus as I have said, midichlorians do not automatically make you able to use the force, just helps you tap into the force itself. A child untrained in the force may go on to live a pretty average life with no idea of Jedi training. Especially since all knowledge of the Jedi has been eradicated and any public idea of the Jedi has been manipulated to make them look like evil manipulators who started one of the most recent and devastating wars in galactic history.

It is also possible that to prevent possible reverse engineering of the technology that Palpatine even ordered any technology related to the Jedi destroyed, if so. Midichlorian detectors were probably one of the first thing to go.

I don't have a problem with people not liking Midichlorians, my problem is when people close their eyes and pretend it never happened. You NEVER have to use it in any story or adventure...but if you say you don't use it because you don't agree with it, in my opinion that is akin to rewriting the end of a novel because you didn't like the ending. You've gone against the whole idea of the narrative and the creator and therefore reject the piece of work as a whole.

But....that is just my opinion.

I don't have a problem with people not liking Midichlorians, my problem is when people close their eyes and pretend it never happened. You NEVER have to use it in any story or adventure...but if you say you don't use it because you don't agree with it, in my opinion that is akin to rewriting the end of a novel because you didn't like the ending. You've gone against the whole idea of the narrative and the creator and therefore reject the piece of work as a whole.

Welcome to the world of role-playing where people get to play in the world they enjoy and get to ignore or change things to support their vision. People kill off main characters, ignore midichlorians, and allow the Deathstar to not be blown up all in the service of their game. All for various personal reasons, likes and dislikes. People have been doing all that in the gaming and fan communities since Star Wars landed. You can choose to agree or not, we won't begrudge you your opinion, so don't begrudge them theirs.

Oh no, not at all. I just don't agree with it, but it's not like if I was in a game with someone and they said that, I would storm out. It wouldn't hinder my enjoyment.

What is YOUR canon?

For me, I don't really get too carried away with canon. There are things of importance, such as how long a certain type of ship has been around, but I general just stay away from following anything as restrictive as movies, books, computer games and even Wookieepedia. My plan is to create my own star chart, with my own systems, with their own backgrounds and politics, and my own characters. Though I am happy to invent an alien species or two, I will use existing races such as Twi'leks, Mon Calamari and of course the Hutts.

My main antagonist will be a Hutt who owns a criminal enterprise within my little region of space, though other parties will be framed for them to keep attention elsewhere.

The only thing I've really taken seriously is the timeline. The existing timeline will contribute to my games, but it won't dominate it. For example, a smuggler makes a run to Hoth to supply rebels with food and drink. That's it. Doesn't take part in the battle, doesn't help or hinder the Rebels or Empire, he just makes his run, gets his pay and avoids any unwanted attention.

Which reminds me of another thing I have dropped from canon: midichlorians. In my games, the Force is some intrinsic spiritual part of life itself, not some bastardized sci-fiacation of mitochondria.

I like that.

In a galaxy full of scientific wonders, some are more sensitive to their basic spiritual instincts. Strength of the Force in someone is a reflection of how strong their connection is to their spiritual side. Unfortunately, there is always the holy "light" side and the unholy "dark" side but that is a persons personal choice. Then again, leaving out any deity from Star Wars, who decides what's light or dark? It's entirely possible for a "good" person to wield the dark side and a "bad" person to sanctumoniously strut around as a Jedi.

Hope you don't mind me feeding off your canon here.

I respect your views, but I respectfully disagree. Midichlorians have never been an indication of "this user can use the force" or "this user cannot use the force" simply because of the count. The way I've seen it is that it denotes how easy or difficult it is for that person to tap into the force. Anyone can do it, but it all comes down to the training and attitude of the person in question.

This makes no difference to the reasons I gave why people dislike Midichlorians. To argue that midichlorians are not a determiner of whether someone can "use the Force", but determines how someone can "tap into the Force" is a meaningless distinction to arguments that Force capability being an arbitrary thing diminishes something. Indeed, I have trouble seeing the distinction at all. Medichlorians presented in the movie very clearly are a determinant of how strongly someone can use the Force, rather than "training and attitude" which are obviously now secondary. To put it another way, they make being a Jedi less about who you are, and more about whether you're born with a handy high M-count.

Whilst you're of course free to not be bothered by this, you started this by talking about people "bemoaning" medichlorians, suggested we ask our doctors about magic pixies and suggesting we were placing our hands over our ears going "lalalala". Permit me to read into your initial post a certain dismissiveness toward people who don't like it.

Plus the force has always been a medical thing if you go by the EU. The galaxy wasn't born with this idea of 'The Force', according to Dawn of the Jedi, the Force was 'discovered' by scientists and philosophers on Tython. However let's throw that out and keep it to the movies for the sake of debate.

I'm not familiar with the EU. I've watched the movies and The Clone Wars. None of what I wrote was dependent on an argument about anything not being authentic. If similar material exists in the EU, then my reasons would obviously apply to that as well.

We were told from the start in episode IV that the force was an energy field that encompasses all living things, surrounds us and binds the galaxy together. All very spiritual, all very good and well for a modern retelling of the heroes journey.

In Episode I we are not told anything opposite

Firstly, neither of my reasons depended on contradiction. Not saying anything opposite isn't the issue. It's what was added, as I explained.

all we are told is that Midichlorians exist in all life and help us tap into the force.

No, that is not "all we are told". And I gave specific examples in my original post. We are told that people have varying degrees of these and that some people have high counts that make them more powerful, others have low counts making them less, thus people's identity and spirituality becomes secondary to the arbitrary gift of birth. You can meditate as much as you like and be as wise as you like. But your ability to be in tune with the Universe, aware of others, ability to use Jedi powers, is always going to be trumped by a kid in a pod-racer or those who inherit his genetic predisposition to be chosen ones. You're wrong to say "all we are told" and then provide an abstracted summation that omits the things I just listed for you in my first reply.

Most, not all, of naturally occurring instances in our reality can be explained by science. I will also repeat that not everything has been explained due to lack of technology or viable research. Most of these things were previously seen as spiritual things and sometimes even the science behind those cannot help us predict those natural occurances, such as the weather.

I don't see any relevance of the above to what I wrote. I get a strong sense that you're arguing with your expectations rather than what was written. I think that you are projecting some sort of real world view of Science vs. Religion and seeing those who dislike the midichlorians as coming from some anti-science background. It's the likely expectation I can see why you are tangenting on assuring us about the validity of science. I gave the two main reasons people dislike midichlorians and they weren't related to any dislike of science.

I feel the Force has a mystical following but has some scientific basis. Either way, it doesn't matter, the point is it can do these incredible things. Just because science has disproved some religious passages, it hasn't stopped people following those religious groups.

Again, I feel the intrusion of real world battles for you intruding into this argument. I honestly don't see the relation of the above in your reply to me to anything I wrote. But I will note that you are incorrect. Disproof of many religious beliefs has certainly persuaded many people away from following those (or any) religion. And it has forced religions to change from what they were with for example, Christianity today being very different for most people from Christianity of the past, with the older version of the religion dying out. Differences that cannot be accounted for merely through changes to social morality, but attributable only changes in scientific knowledge of the cosmos.

plus as I have said, midichlorians do not automatically make you able to use the force, just helps you tap into the force itself. A child untrained in the force may go on to live a pretty average life with no idea of Jedi training.

This is bad statistics. It doesn't matter that a high count can have false positives. It's that a low-count doesn't have false negatives. If 0.001% of the population have the potential to be Jedi, the Empire just wipes out the 0.001%. Bang - no Jedi. It also massively improves the interrogation / confession process. One of the big issues with questioning people / interrogation / torture is weeding out the people who are truthfully innocent. If you can dismiss 999,999/1,000,000 suspects you arrest immediately, that's a pretty big plus.

It is also possible that to prevent possible reverse engineering of the technology that Palpatine even ordered any technology related to the Jedi destroyed, if so. Midichlorian detectors were probably one of the first thing to go.

And there may also be a teapot orbiting the Sun. This is kind of a thread asking people what they don't like and have chosen to exclude. Just sayin'.

You NEVER have to use it in any story or adventure...but if you say you don't use it because you don't agree with it, in my opinion that is akin to rewriting the end of a novel because you didn't like the ending. You've gone against the whole idea of the narrative and the creator and therefore reject the piece of work as a whole.

Earlier you wrote that the addition of Midichlorians didn't change anything. Now you argue that omitting them is akin to rewriting the end of a novel and going against the whole idea of the narrative. I disagree. Perhaps you see the trilogy as a story about microscopic organelles, but as far as I'm concerned, Darth Vader still drops the Emperor down a bit shaft at the end whether we drop the midichlorians or not and I don't see that as "rejecting the piece of work as a whole." I now dub thee, Sir Hyperbole of Hyperbolia.

For one particular campaign, played during our d20 Saga phase, the only canon of any real consequence was:

TROOPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bocmVZXXY8w

"Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do..."

Oh man, what an awesome campaign that was. Hands down, one of my all time faves.

All of the movies, except for the Holiday special. Most of the Clone Wars CGI, except for the final arc of season 5 and any arc where Maul appears, though his role in the final Mandalorian arc is taken by a former Jedi who was believed killed when his fighter was shot down during a mission with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and who blames Qui-gon and Obi-Wan for the lack of a rescue mission because they reported no one survived the crash after the pilot was knocked out by his injuries. (Cheesy I know but much better than Maul surviving being cut in half and the long fall IMO.)

How about that Jedi who was responsible for the creation of the Clone Troopers?

Instead of Dooku killing him, he was thought killed and "overlooked" returning to discover Dooku had replaced him and for revenge focused on the closest thing to family he thought Dooku had which by then was Obi-Wan as he was the padawan of Dooku's own padawan.

Of course he would be incensed his creation are being used against him but being perceived insane his stories of being betrayed would be largely ignored until Sidious comes for him and his new padawan, Savage who sought him out after discovering both Dooku and Ventriss were using him.

Still don't care for what happened to

though and the fact I'd even consider the Clone Wars animated series as canon is remarkable as I didn't much care for the prequels.

The Mandalorian arcs would take place on a world with a large number of people descended from Mandalorians. This avoids the massive clash with the Original Trilogy novelizations stating that the Jedi fought the Mandalorians in the war,though some clans and individuals will ally with the Republic for their own purposes. The Ryloth arc will take place on a world colonized by the Twi'leks rather than Ryloth itself thus involving clashing with the EU description of Ryloth's climate.

I originally thought when they called it the clone wars is because the Sith had cloned the virtually extinct Mandalorians with them used as the main army of an invading force Sidious used to whittle down the Jedi whilst turning events to his own advantage, which he did anyway...

I assumed those droids were used to counter the overwhelming forces as the Republic's own military was largely ceremonial ala Naboo with what mercenaries available being hired to protect the interests of say the Corporate Sector and those with the money to afford them leaving the rest of the Republic vulnerable.

For one particular campaign, played during our d20 Saga phase, the only canon of any real consequence was:

TROOPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bocmVZXXY8w

"Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do..."

Oh man, what an awesome campaign that was. Hands down, one of my all time faves.

"All suspects are guilty; otherwise they wouldn't be suspects would they"

hehe

My canon consists of pretty much everything. The caveat being it is the story/themes/ideals that are important, but not details. So Force Unleashed happened, but was it as extreme as the video game shows? Maybe, maybe not. Same with midichlorians. They are a scientific fact of the Star Wars universe, but does this have any impact on the effectiveness of NPC and PC Force users? If there is a cool story element I can add then sure. Did Han shoot first? Does it really matter? The end result is still the same: Greedo dead and events unfold as they did in the film. Timeline is important in my games because I do like to stick to the established time line and I think it is neat to include larger galaxy stuff happening in the background. I am a huge fan of Tales of the Jedi but not KotOR, but I still stick to the history of KotOR. All in all it has to be some really really really sh*tty Star Wars stuff for me not to like it. Which is typically fan films. Most Vong stuff is eh, but I would include it because I think the overall story is interesting: intergalactic beings conquering galaxies with organic tech? Sounds cool to me! The Holiday Special is included as well, or at least Life Day is a thing in my Star Wars.

I just really enjoy everything Star Wars so much because it is fascinating all the different stories and ideas that can be present in this ever changing galaxy that is Star Wars.

Actually, according to the novel, Plagueis never succeeded in that task. He was never able to manipulated the medichlorians to prevent someone from dying. In all his scientific research he found that any attempt to do so would cause a violent backlash with the medichlorians, think a biological form of karma.

Palps merely told Anakin what he wanted to hear. Which to be honest is what I would expect from him.

Oh, and to all you guys bemoaning medichlorians, next time you go to your doctors ask if the magic pixies inside you keep carrying oxygen through your system. The Jedi had thousands of years of peace to explore what the Force is, think scientists are not going to try and 'explain' the force. Just plugging your ears and going "lalalalalalalala!" is not going to suddenly make it all go away.

I mean, I'm as much for rationalism as the next person, but Star Wars IS a fantasy about space wizards. Midichlorians don't explain R2-D2, who is devoid of biology but serves to enact the Force's will as a literal deus (forceus?) ex machina. Time and time again, R2 happens to be at just the right place and time to save everyone. In Empire, he's the one who fixes the hyper drive by actually talking with the machine. Hm. Force users connect with the force and allow it to speak to them, causing miraculous happenings. R2 connects with the machine (which are established in star wars as being sentient beings) and speaks with it, causing a miraculous happening. There are no midichlorians in R2, or any of the other technology, but they're all as alive and spirited as any of the biological characters. Anakin goes from being able to use the machine as a great pilot, becoming a fusion of both, to his downfall when he literally fuses with the machine and rejects it, losing much of his strength. Think of all the interactions that people in the movies have with droids and machines. Think about how important those interactions end up being. The force moves through all of us, droid or biological. Midichlorians are another way of people not understanding the importance of how far-reaching the force is.