I'm curious to hear what lieutenant pack players of Descent 2E think is most powerful. As in, if you're playing as the OL and you were hypothetically forced to discar every lieutenant you own except for 1, who would you keep? I currently own all of the lieutenants for the base game and Bol'goreth, and I'm looking to get more so I'm curious to see answers to this question since I play OL exclusively.

I think the most popularly "powerful" lieutenant packs are the major villains of the campaigns -- Baron Zachareth, Queen Ariad, and Gargan Mirklace. Valyndra and possibly Bol'Goreth would be up there, too. They're powerful for a reason.

I would say Garga Mirklace or Ariad, but not so sure

I'm unconvinced about those. Baron Zachareth I agree has an insanely powerful deck, but I'm unconvinced about Queen Ariad's and Mirklace's decks. I'm particularly fond of Tristayne Olliven's deck at the moment.

The base card of Ariad (not queen) is really powerfull (reroll an X, and if the monster has the cursed trait, reroll another die and move one space), Ariad herself is good, and Gargan Mirklace is just the better Agent ever (4 dice to attack)

The base card of Ariad (not queen) is really powerfull (reroll an X, and if the monster has the cursed trait, reroll another die and move one space), Ariad herself is good, and Gargan Mirklace is just the better Agent ever (4 dice to attack)

Mirklace replaces an entire monster group, wheras a bunch of the others don't. Take Bel'thir for example: he replaces one master and one minion (Eliza Farrow, I believe, only replaces the master minion). You can rock Bel'thir and 3 goblin archers, or Mirklace, if we're limiting ourselves to just the agents.

Yes, but this is not the way you must see him.

You replace the entire group, but choose for example Giants, and if Mirklace dies, you reinforce a giant, after he did some massive damage, with 4 dices and some warlords card, you should have put down 2-3 heroes, if not more on act 2 with sorcery 3 !

My own lieutenant pack preferences include some of the previously mentioned ones: Ariad, Mirklace, Tristayne Olliven, and possibly Verminous. It really depends on how you like to play; unfortunately I have had very little experience with the Mirklace plot deck, but Mirklace himself is quite the lieutenant/agent. Thus, if you just want some good old brute force, I'd go with Mirklace. Ariad's plot deck has some pretty good things in it and she herself is nothing to laugh about (even though they had to tamper with her special attack action). Verminous as an agent seems to be relatively fearsome and his plot deck has some nasty tricks up its sleeve. Last (and my personal favorite) is Tristayne Olliven; Tristayne himself is no small matter. With Ravage as well as two other powerful abilities (and surge + 3 hearts), Tristayne is quite the powerful fiend. His plot deck also has some very good cards in it that I really like (as seen in the article about him: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4623 )

Those are just my favorites; I haven't even come close to testing all of the LPs, but if I was going to buy some more lieutenant packs, I would get those four.

Yes, but this is not the way you must see him.

You replace the entire group, but choose for example Giants, and if Mirklace dies, you reinforce a giant, after he did some massive damage, with 4 dices and some warlords card, you should have put down 2-3 heroes, if not more on act 2 with sorcery 3 !

I was under the impression that the replaced monsters were removed from the game, and could not be reinforced.

Yes, but this is not the way you must see him.

You replace the entire group, but choose for example Giants, and if Mirklace dies, you reinforce a giant, after he did some massive damage, with 4 dices and some warlords card, you should have put down 2-3 heroes, if not more on act 2 with sorcery 3 !

I don't have the conversion kit, but I would be surprised if it works that way. The Agent doesn't have any of the same abilities that the monsters in the group does. It doesn't count as a monster in the group, it's treated as a master monster, but not one of the same kind as the monsters in the group.

Yes, but this is not the way you must see him.

You replace the entire group, but choose for example Giants, and if Mirklace dies, you reinforce a giant, after he did some massive damage, with 4 dices and some warlords card, you should have put down 2-3 heroes, if not more on act 2 with sorcery 3 !

I don't have the conversion kit, but I would be surprised if it works that way. The Agent doesn't have any of the same abilities that the monsters in the group does. It doesn't count as a monster in the group, it's treated as a master monster, but not one of the same kind as the monsters in the group.

Actually it counts as a master monster in the group it entered/replaced.

Yes, but this is not the way you must see him.

You replace the entire group, but choose for example Giants, and if Mirklace dies, you reinforce a giant, after he did some massive damage, with 4 dices and some warlords card, you should have put down 2-3 heroes, if not more on act 2 with sorcery 3 !

I don't have the conversion kit, but I would be surprised if it works that way. The Agent doesn't have any of the same abilities that the monsters in the group does. It doesn't count as a monster in the group, it's treated as a master monster, but not one of the same kind as the monsters in the group.

Actually it counts as a master monster in the group it entered/replaced.

Regardless, I'm 99% certain it doesn't have the giant's ability to spawn in another giant when it dies.

Yes, but this is not the way you must see him.

You replace the entire group, but choose for example Giants, and if Mirklace dies, you reinforce a giant, after he did some massive damage, with 4 dices and some warlords card, you should have put down 2-3 heroes, if not more on act 2 with sorcery 3 !

I don't have the conversion kit, but I would be surprised if it works that way. The Agent doesn't have any of the same abilities that the monsters in the group does. It doesn't count as a monster in the group, it's treated as a master monster, but not one of the same kind as the monsters in the group.

Actually it counts as a master monster in the group it entered/replaced.

Regardless, I'm 99% certain it doesn't have the giant's ability to spawn in another giant when it dies.

Obviously, the giants have been removed.

yes, but when mirklace dies, normal reinforcement applies !

As far as overlord decks go:

At this stage i do not currently see a clear winner for the lieutenants, it will be highly dependant on what characters your heroes have picked to play with and the types of heroes. As far as raw damage output goes however sir merric farrow is pretty badass used in combination with his plot cards to do massive damage to all adjacent players.

yes, but when mirklace dies, normal reinforcement applies !

No, as Mirklace replaces the entire group, and they are removed from the game, there are no monsters to reinforce, as agents may never be reinforced.

yes, but when mirklace dies, normal reinforcement applies !

No, as Mirklace replaces the entire group, and they are removed from the game, there are no monsters to reinforce, as agents may never be reinforced.

see here http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent-second-ed/news/lieutenants/DJ09-rules-web.pdf

That conflicts directly with their given definition of replacing. Intent wise I think they meant for it to mean "While the agent is replacing monsters, those monsters cannot be reinforced."

That said, you are correct RAW.

Splig is the best!

No love for Ms. Eliza?

I find Sir Alric good as well, his deck provides versatile buffs and his abilities allow him to break through the line of the heroes.

Merrick's Cabal card is deadly with kobolds if you can get Dark Might out and roll a surge along side it.

I agree with Bento, it depends on the heroes set up.

Belthir is definitely the simplest to use - Stick with Basic 1. Also he's decently powerful, in Act 2 he could potentially hit multiple heroes with 1 action.

Personally I'm a fan of Queen Ariad. In Act 1 she's rocking Black+Gray defense which is pretty tough to deal with for heroes just starting out (before getting the Crossbow). Park that insect butt in front of the heroes objective and take a swing at a few of them when they get close. She should last 2-3 turns.

As for the reinforcement rule in regards to using an Agent, the monsters that were replaced with the Agent can't be used while the Agent is out, but if the Agent dies (or otherwise leaves the map) using the monsters that were replaced opens back up:

When an agent is placed in a monster group, that agent and the monsters in that group are treated as if they are part of the same monster group. While the agent is on the map, the overlord cannot use the monster figures it replaced as reinforcements, regardless of quest rules.

So if you use someone like Mirklace or Queen Ariad, use a large monster group since you'll be losing the whole group anyways for the duration the Agent it out.

That conflicts directly with their given definition of replacing.

I'm not sure that FFG has given a definition of "replacing" as a general rule (there have been a couple instances, but those are for figures on the board, not available for a quest.

Intent wise I think they meant for it to mean "While the agent is replacing monsters, those monsters cannot be reinforced."

That said, you are correct RAW.

Assuming FFG's intent as something other than RAW, without them explicitly posting a clarification/errata has almost always been the wrong choice.

That conflicts directly with their given definition of replacing.

I'm not sure that FFG has given a definition of "replacing" as a general rule (there have been a couple instances, but those are for figures on the board, not available for a quest.

Intent wise I think they meant for it to mean "While the agent is replacing monsters, those monsters cannot be reinforced."

That said, you are correct RAW.

Assuming FFG's intent as something other than RAW, without them explicitly posting a clarification/errata has almost always been the wrong choice.

I agree, which is why I added that final sentence. Go with it RAW.

That said, I think I'd rather have Eliza Farrow + 4 goblin archers on the field than just Mirklace and the ability to reinforce giants (when I'll frequently be reinforcing something else anyway).

That said, I think I'd rather have Eliza Farrow + 4 goblin archers on the field than just Mirklace and the ability to reinforce giants (when I'll frequently be reinforcing something else anyway).

Depends on the quest though doesnt it ! Which further reinforces that there really is no best lieutenant.