The Auto-Senses of an Astartes power armour helmet grants the wearer Dark Sight. Fine, but what exactly is that? I'm not asking for a clarification of the 'Rule As Written' (SMs see in the dark- got it), which is why I'm not posting this in the Rules Question section. What I want to know is, what kind of Dark Sight is it? This is relevant both in descriptive terms, and there are specific situations where different types of Dark Sight don't work.

My best guess is that it is Low-Light vision- extreme amplification of existing light. This seems to match the vague descriptions the closest; but it has the vulnerability of not functioning at all if there is absolutely no existing light (a rare situation, but it does occasionally occur).

The next most likely candidate for Dark Sight is Infra-Red, i.e. 'heat vision'. Possible, but I think this is less likely than Low-Light, since this kind of vision would lack the detail to identify specific individuals in power armour- or even distinguish members of one Chapter from another! And there would be other weaknesses, like the inability to read printed text. I can see auto-senses incorporating an IR option that can be turned on and off, but I doubt SMs would rely on it as their primary vision source.

Another option would be a broad-spectrum system that converts non-visual wavelengths into simulated images (like Geordi's visor in Star Trek: The Next Generation ). I'm doubtful that this is the case, since this form of vision would allow SMs to see otherwise invisible things like radiation, and I've never hear of this being the case.

So, I'm soliciting opinions: what do you thing SM auto-sense Dark Sight is supposed to represent...?

My interpretation of mechanical Dark Sight would be simple nightvision, as in residual light amplification - either greyscale or green, just like we know it from contemporary military equipment and various other games. Probably the latter, given how "popular" green screens seem to be in 40k art in general!

Infrared / heat vision is actually what I consider Preysight to be.

That's just my opinion, though. I'm sure that official material supports several interpretations, as usual with 40k.

I assume that, like most tech in 40k, it's not exactly standardized. I also tend to think that it's a sort of augmented lowlight-vision, which uses infrared to highlight hotspots and arrays sensitive to electromagnetic waves to detect power sources, possibly radiation detectors as well. Some autosenses may include a sonic component for ultrasonic imaging.

I view it as D&D dwarves' Darkvision. No, seriously.

I think it means light amplification. I don't think it qualifies as Preysense. To begin with that would negate a need for the Preysense, and it doesn't equate it to that in the rules. Plus, the Diagnosticator Helmet, with infra-sense and some x-ray spectrum grants the wearer Preysense, which wouldn't be mentioned if all helmets did the same.

That's fair.

Ah right, and the auto-senses are different. While all marines have Dark Sight and it functions however, the Auto-senses are the Machine Spirit in the war-plate identifying things on it's own and calling them to your attention via highlights and things. Think rolling text on the Terminator (movie, not 40k) display, or the tactical data provided by the Crysis nanosuit.

Indeed!

One of the DoW clips had an interesting interpretation of that. Watch here at 0:55 ->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MLoXQIPPNI

Just to be redundant:

Dark Sight=Night Vision Goggles

Preysense=Thermal Goggles

At least in terms of effect it doesn't have to actually be goggles, in Rogue Trader you can get darksight out of contact lenses (and it's so common that soldiers of fortune often have it) because as horribly regressed and ignorant of it's own tech the Imperium is that tech is still stupidly better than what exists today.

Dawn of War's take on Astropathic relay is real-time radio contact, even when one of the speaking parties is in transit in the warp (e.g DoW2's conversations between Gabriel Angelos and your team while his squadron is en route to save you from the bugs).

Just to chime in: I always interpreted it as Low-Light Vision/Light Amplification.

Dawn of War's take on Astropathic relay is real-time radio contact, even when one of the speaking parties is in transit in the warp (e.g DoW2's conversations between Gabriel Angelos and your team while his squadron is en route to save you from the bugs).

But fluff-wise, that's just stoopid.

It's a video game. Its fluff value is zero.

I've not played DoW 2, but the 1st one had a few cool ideas. And is inspiration not the one and only thing we can take away from any source?

Ultimately, all fluff is equal in that "there is no objective truth", as Andy Hoare once put it.

And I say that whilst nagging about the IIUP or certain FFG books half the time. In the end, it's all a matter of one's unique, personal preferences.

DoW2:R was terrible because it featured an extremely powerful, Khornate psyker.

DoW2:R was excellent because it had the balls to feature a Khornate psyker.

Let the puritanical fanbase rage, but I am a radical at heart, and I will give respect where it is due. Fluff is what you make of it.

yeah, okay, that was completely off topic but I wanted to stand on my soapbox.

True enough that everyone is free to use license in their interpretations. I know I do. I can't stand the contrivance of always leaving behind the Kill Team while they perform their mission, knowing that the spaceship going through the warp is going to be gone for months, but shows up right after the characters complete their mission next week. I didn't run many DW missions but I always worked in orbital bombardment or the potential for it. The ship doesn't leave them to their own devices.

Does it really say anywhere that the ship would leave them?

That sounds ... odd, to say the least.

Personally, I'd expect it to work a bit like in Aliens with the USS Sulaco

[edit] almost forgot a mandatory video quote

If you take a look at the RT shipbuilding rules, it's actually very easy to build a Viper Scout Sloop with a full stealth kit, fast and reliable warp travel- and no weapons at all. I figure this is the sort of thing the DW uses when a Kill-Ship is not required.

Edit: an example ship design follows; though this isn't an RT forum, it is contextually relevant. This is based on a design I originally put together for the Dark Angels inner circle to quietly hunt the Fallen. References for components in the design document. It should also be noted that this is not a legal starting vessel in RT, unless your gm lets you start with two archeotech components- this is the sort of ship available to the DA inner circle or the DW, not junior (starting level) Rogue Traders!

Components of note that would be useful to a DW group:

- Astropathic choir chamber for reliable communication or funky Librarian shenanigans.

- Brig for taking xenos samples.

- Librarium for DW lore or funky Librarian shenanigans.

- Repulsor void shield, for safe passage through more astronomic features. This can be useful for approaching space hulks in ship graveyards or hiding out in a planet's rings whilst the killteam hangs out on a Tau world.

Many of the published adventures have the ship leaving the kill team to their own devices. Even with a fast ship, any warp passage is going to take the ship many days away...days for the voyage to a warp entrance/exit, 12:1 days for the temporal difference while en route through the warp, and days back from the warp entrance/exit point, not to mention the time for any mission that pulled the ship away in the first place. It's a very contrived method of keeping the kill team isolated.

Which published adventure?

Alex

Regardless of published adventures, I continue to consider habitual 'in the nick of time' arrivals of the pickup vessel to be ridiculous, and will treat such fluff accordingly.

This is further digression of an off-topic matter for this thread, but: I have found that forcing a reasonable window of operation on killteams (i.e. the destroyer that tossed your drop-pod left system and will be back in 3-5 weeks, be ready for pickup then) both encourage an unnecessary tempo on the players and require a level of planning and prediction both beyond the gm and players in question (how do you ensure that the challenges in place will take 3-5 weeks, and the tyranid swarm doesn't devour the killteam by then?). To that end, I prefer to either provide a silent, unarmed, stealth vessel as previously described or a frigate-grade rapid strike vessel equipped such that it can provide auspex support, and under certain circumstances fire support.

FYI, if, when calling for fire support, the responding station is in orbit and says "danger close," that means dig a hole in the ground as fast as possible, bury yourself in it, and cry until the explosions stop- because they really, really mean it, even if you are kilometers away from the target you called and you managed to get a beacon on the target. Related, when players are confronted with the aftermath of bus-sized macrocannon shells landing in (relatively) close proximity, you get some amusingly shocked expressions. Quote: "But that's not how it worked in Dawn of War!"

Well, most Deathwatch Void Ships are generally not build for full frontal combat. They certainly can do that, especially with the KT on-board, performing hit & runs. But in many cases, the Void Ship will be unable to hold a void position for an extended period of time. Hostiles might drive it out of position.

So in my mind, when we're dealing with a hostile or embattled planet, they will often drop the team and leave orbit, perhaps hiding behind an uninhibited moon or at the poles or in nearby void. At other times the PCs will not want Imperial forces to notice their presence because once they do, the requests for help will start to fill their cogitator's displays.

Stealth is the name of the game, unless you really, really need the Void Ship for observation/firepower/rapid extraction.

Alex

Good old 'thread-drift'...