Is it just me, or is vessery the best cluster missiler ever? Target lock, fire cluster missiles, roll first volley, acquire TL, modify first volley, roll second volley, acquire TL, modify second volley. Six total attack dice with a target lock. Throw Outmaneuver on him, and suddenly falcons, B-Wings, Y-wing, and lambda shuttles don't get to evade. Firesprays and X-wings are now vulnerable to a good clusterizing. Pair him with titled lambda to set up a TL or two anywhere on the board and cripple/decimate any ship of your choosing.

I don't know about "best ever"--if Jonus is around, pretty much anyone turns into Vessery where Cluster Missiles are concerned. But yeah, Vessery + Cluster Missiles is going to be a very, very serious problem for B-wings and Falcons.

Yup. And yet people are still complaining that it requires someone else to also have a TL... What a great compliment he'll make to a TIE/sa alpha strike. Something like this

Vessary w/ Cluster (39)

Scimitar w/ Proton (20)

Scimitar w/ Proton (20)

Scimitar w/ Homing (21)

Total: 100pts

Yeah yeah yeah, you gotta make sure you get the TLs, which is hard but doable. But then you have Vessary shooting first at someone, preferably a low agility target, doing 1.88 damage each attack, for 3.76 overall. (FYI, normally they'd do 1.17 each for 2.34 dmg... figure a Jonus reroll is ~3.3 overall). Homing comes in at 2.63 damage, killing the shields, and then the two protons come in for ~2.4 each. Total damage inflicted is ~11, killing Shuttles, B wings, and almost enough to take out a named YT in the first pass. And now you're left with a Defender who is much better than the Jonus alternative for dogfighting.

That was kind of my impression too, that defender gets really efficient missiles with vessery and can still be a valuable lone-wolf attacker afterwards. After his missiles are gone, he can have a target lock and focus almost every attack. So kinda like recon specialist BH, an attack modifier and an evasion modifier every turn without stress. He just can't take on as many ships as the firespray can at one time, He's too vulnerable without a defense modifier, especially as expensive as he is. Even if Vessery doesn't play as well as I hope he does, he will certainly be fun to fly.

It was covered a few days ago along with the discussion of how Tarn in his X-Wing could potentially nullify Vessery's attack.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/103565-colonel-vessery-cluster-missiles/

It was covered a few days ago along with the discussion of how Tarn in his X-Wing could potentially nullify Vessery's attack.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/103565-colonel-vessery-cluster-missiles/

With Cluster Missiles you perform the attack twice, but I believe you only declare your target once. So Tarn would only get one target lock, before the first cluster missile attack.

I think. Rules lawyer can clarify.

With Cluster Missiles you perform the attack twice, but I believe you only declare your target once. So Tarn would only get one target lock, before the first cluster missile attack.

I think. Rules lawyer can clarify.

Already did. In that very thread, no less

You are correct - secondary weapons declare in Step 2, after target selection, to Tarn will only get one lock.

He basically gets a free TL on any ship he shoots at as long as someone else has already TL-ed that target. The free TL is great, but it requires some synergy from somewhere else. And without upgrades, most Imperial ships don't have TLs. So Vessery a pretty expensive pilot to use. I think the best way would be to have a shuttle with the Title upgrade, or FCS and Weapons Engineer. Either way it will end up a few points even before you buy the cluster missiles.

For $30 and 2pts more you surely can convert any Imperial Ship to have target locks via targeting computer. And I'm guessing most imperial players will already have a copy of imperial aces, so it's really just a matter of the 2 additional points.

For $30 and 2pts more you surely can convert any Imperial Ship to have target locks via targeting computer. And I'm guessing most imperial players will already have a copy of imperial aces, so it's really just a matter of the 2 additional points.

But that means they are basically using their action to give Vessery a TL. I could see giving it to a whole bunch of TIEs so which ever one that doesn't need their action can give the TL to Vessery, but that gets more expensive fast (points and $$$).

Not counting cluster missiles shenanigans you could basically do the same thing to any ship by simply having another ship have Sqaud Leader.

But that means they are basically using their action to give Vessery a TL.

They can shoot at that target after Vessery does and us the TL in the process.

...without upgrades, most Imperial ships don't have TLs.

The most frequently used Imperial ships don't have the ability to target lock, but four of the six released ships do: Advanced, Firespray, Lambda, and Bomber. When Wave 4 is released, the proportion with TL will be 5/8--with an additional ship able to acquire target locks via a Fire Control System.

Most Imperial ships do have the ability to provide Vessery with a TL, and as door said...

They can shoot at that target after Vessery does and us the TL in the process.

The ship providing a TL to Vessery isn't doing so at the cost of its own action, Squad Leader style. The ship is doing something it might very well want to do anyway, and getting the full benefit of doing so.

Or, to put it another way, you might very well choose to put PTL on a named Firespray, allowing you to (e.g.) create a TL+Focus stack when you attack. That's worth 3 points and a stress token every time you activate it. Would it be worth 4 points to do so without the stress? If so, drop a couple of Targeting Computers on your Academy Pilots further down the list, and that's exactly what happens.

I don't get the hate on Vassary's ability. Imps have been crying for more synergy between their squads, they finally get some, and now they cry because there needs to be synergy to work.

If an Academy, or BH or something has a TL, via standard action process, then all of a sudden, you get a second action for Vassary for free! It's almost like dutch, who needs to take a TL to hand out a free TL... The only difference is that with Dutch, you have to fly together but can TL different ships, and with Vassary you can fly independently, but must target the same ship.

Oh, and it has the added "benefit" of providing an alternative to Howlrunner since TL doesn't work as well with her as F does. So now you have a reason to run something besides a 7 TIE swarm.

It's almost like dutch, who needs to take a TL to hand out a free TL...

Exactly, although it's a very self-contained, Imperial-themed version. Dutch gives out a TL to anyone when he takes one for himself; Vessery receives a TL when another ship takes one for itself.

I don't get the hate on Vassary's ability. Imps have been crying for more synergy between their squads, they finally get some, and now they cry because there needs to be synergy to work.

You just made the game master snort soda out of his nose.

Jonus wouldn't effect Visery at all would he? Since Visery can already spend a TL and re-roll his attack if the defender is TL by someone else, correct? Or can he still use Jonus to re-roll and not spend the TL?

Or can he still use Jonus to re-roll and not spend the TL?

Sure can.

He basically gets a free TL on any ship he shoots at as long as someone else has already TL-ed that target. The free TL is great, but it requires some synergy from somewhere else. And without upgrades, most Imperial ships don't have TLs. So Vessery a pretty expensive pilot to use. I think the best way would be to have a shuttle with the Title upgrade, or FCS and Weapons Engineer. Either way it will end up a few points even before you buy the cluster missiles.

Vessery, Cluster Missiles

Sigma, FCS, Weapons Engineer, SPA

Sigma, FCS, SPA

Mobility, three locks to choose from.

I am really looking forward to playing around with the Empire's "new " TL abilities thanks to the Defender.

I don't get the hate on Vassary's ability. Imps have been crying for more synergy between their squads, they finally get some, and now they cry because there needs to be synergy to work.

If an Academy, or BH or something has a TL, via standard action process, then all of a sudden, you get a second action for Vassary for free! It's almost like dutch, who needs to take a TL to hand out a free TL...

I think the overhead for Vessery's free TL is considerably higher than most other synergy/support abilities in the game. Most of the abilities have a range restriction, and that's about it. Just because the end result is the same doesn't mean it's not harder to get there.

Consider the prerequisites for some of the others. (Note that anything beyond range 1 is usually easy enough to manage that I don't consider it a restriction) Squad Leader, action. Howl/Jonus, range. Cracken? Make an attack, and range. Dutch? Action. Garven? Action and (probably) make an attack, or defend against one. Lando? Green and range.

Vessery requires another ship with target lock, but most importantly requires that that ship go after the same target. If it doesn't, then it's a Squad Leader-style transfer. It's also worth considering that depending on whoever else is providing the lock can't spend it on their own attack if they're higher PS, which is something I don't think I've seen anyone mention. If you are going to try and include the TIE Advanced in the list of ships that can help him, realistically that means Vader, which means you might as well take Squad Leader because Vader is wasting the action.

I also think the ships that can lock just aren't going to mesh well with the defender. The Firespray is expensive - you've only got 32 points left after the baseline ships, and you're at a 2-ship build at that point. The shuttle may be cheaper depending on its build, but even the people who've managed to make it work think it desperately needs Engine Upgrade, so it really can't spare the TL for Vessery's sake. Bombers, IMHO, don't do well as splash ships - they need a very focused squad. You can't just add one or two for Vessery's sake and have it work. And the Advanced... well, yeah, let's just leave that one alone.

And even ignoring the specific ship issues, there's a broader functionality problem. Defenders are EXPENSIVE. You're probably going to be looking at a relatively small-count build if you're going to run one. Putting at least two of your limited ships on the same target is going to be a lot of focus, and Vessery will get less and less useful as you lose other ships to provide his locks.

I think he's got one of those abilities that looks great on paper, but it's going to be hard to build a squad to exploit, hard to actually exploit on the table, and become useless during the late game. For two more points, Rexler has none of those issues and on at least one (late game performance) he's going to be a superstar as shields go away.

I don't get the hate on Vassary's ability. Imps have been crying for more synergy between their squads, they finally get some, and now they cry because there needs to be synergy to work.

If an Academy, or BH or something has a TL, via standard action process, then all of a sudden, you get a second action for Vassary for free! It's almost like dutch, who needs to take a TL to hand out a free TL...

I think the overhead for Vessery's free TL is considerably higher than most other synergy/support abilities in the game. Most of the abilities have a range restriction, and that's about it. Just because the end result is the same doesn't mean it's not harder to get there.

Consider the prerequisites for some of the others. (Note that anything beyond range 1 is usually easy enough to manage that I don't consider it a restriction) Squad Leader, action. Howl/Jonus, range. Cracken? Make an attack, and range. Dutch? Action. Garven? Action and (probably) make an attack, or defend against one. Lando? Green and range.

Vessery requires another ship with target lock, but most importantly requires that that ship go after the same target. If it doesn't, then it's a Squad Leader-style transfer. It's also worth considering that depending on whoever else is providing the lock can't spend it on their own attack if they're higher PS, which is something I don't think I've seen anyone mention. If you are going to try and include the TIE Advanced in the list of ships that can help him, realistically that means Vader, which means you might as well take Squad Leader because Vader is wasting the action.

I also think the ships that can lock just aren't going to mesh well with the defender. The Firespray is expensive - you've only got 32 points left after the baseline ships, and you're at a 2-ship build at that point. The shuttle may be cheaper depending on its build, but even the people who've managed to make it work think it desperately needs Engine Upgrade, so it really can't spare the TL for Vessery's sake. Bombers, IMHO, don't do well as splash ships - they need a very focused squad. You can't just add one or two for Vessery's sake and have it work. And the Advanced... well, yeah, let's just leave that one alone.

And even ignoring the specific ship issues, there's a broader functionality problem. Defenders are EXPENSIVE. You're probably going to be looking at a relatively small-count build if you're going to run one. Putting at least two of your limited ships on the same target is going to be a lot of focus, and Vessery will get less and less useful as you lose other ships to provide his locks.

I think he's got one of those abilities that looks great on paper, but it's going to be hard to build a squad to exploit, hard to actually exploit on the table, and become useless during the late game. For two more points, Rexler has none of those issues and on at least one (late game performance) he's going to be a superstar as shields go away.

I tend to agree on most points. Rexler is going to be great anywhere and doesn't need any upgrades. Vessery seems to have some nice synergy in a bomber list, though.

I don't get the hate on Vassary's ability. Imps have been crying for more synergy between their squads, they finally get some, and now they cry because there needs to be synergy to work.

Change becomes more difficult to accept the longer you're stuck in a pattern. A lot of Imperial players have been stuck in the swarm comfort zone for so long that it becomes hard to leave.

I mean, getting a target lock on something couldn't be more easy for Imperials. Omnicron + ST-321 can target lock anything on the playing field. The only bad thing I can see about that combi is that I can only pull it off once.

I tend to agree on most points. Rexler is going to be great anywhere and doesn't need any upgrades. Vessery seems to have some nice synergy in a bomber list, though.

The Bomber list I flew with some decent, but not great, success was Jonus + 3 Gammas. Vessery takes away two of the Gammas. If you put Vessery in a bomber list, it's not really a bomber list any more.

I mean, getting a target lock on something couldn't be more easy for Imperials. Omnicron + ST-321 can target lock anything on the playing field. The only bad thing I can see about that combi is that I can only pull it off once.

I'll say (shorter) the same thing I said above - Vessery's ability requires far more than "Get a ship with Target Lock on the board." Say you do take an Omicron with ST-321. Almost everyone will concede that a shuttle needs boost, so that's 28 points. You've got 27 points left in your build. What do you fill it with? Two Academies gives you a 4-ship build, including two scrub ties and a boat that can barely maneuver, and can't maneuver at all if you want it to do what you put it there to do, namely lock onto targets for Vessery's benefit.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's not possible to set things up for Vessery. It obviously is. The question is whether it's a good idea.

I think he's going to work better with a pair of Targeting Computer equipped Interceptors.

The Shuttle trick is good, but limited in ultimate impact.

Thought you could "tank" the Shuttle and get just one more ship into a solid 3-build...

Yup. Vessery is either a shuttleman or needs to be paired up with someone who has the actions to spare (i.e. ptl + TL squints) Superfel is also an excellent suggestion, as he can "tag" a ship with a TL and still have an action + Focus to hit someone else.