Can you list at least 3 competitive imperial squads that are NOT swarms?

I know the term 'competitive' is a contentious issue but please humor me and post up imperial squads you like to play, have had success with or have seen do well in a competitive environment. There are no ship restrictions other than no 'pure swarm' lists.

i will start the ball rolling with my fav imp squad:

Scarlet Cowgirl/Bareback Cowgirl (two variants of the same squad)

Standard Cowgirl

2x Academy Pilot

Kath Scarlet + Rebel Captive + Expert Handling

Omicron Group Pilot + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (Buzzsaw Shuttle)

Hothies Bareback version

1x Academy Pilot

1x Backstabber

Kath Scarlet + Rebel Captive + Expert Handling

Omicron Group Pilot + Advanced Sensors + Engine Upgrade (Zoom Shuttle)

These two squads are both competitive. To my knowledge neither has won a significant tournament but they could have as they are solid squads.

Id expect to see people post up lists like...

3x Bounty Hunter

or

2x Bounty Hunter + Recon Specialist

2x Academy Pilot

there must be more imperial squads that are not swarms that people are winning with right?

Triple Bounty Hunter. I am also thinking Royal Guard w/ PTL x 4 is on the verge, though probably more complex than a typical plug 'n' play list. I have also seen double EH Firespray (Boba/Kath) do quite well, though also tricky.

I am thinking the Phantom and Defender will create more list diversity.

Triple Bounty Hunter

haha. u just beat me as i edited my original post. yep, thats 1, u got 2 more??

Archetypes rather than pure lists, but here you go:

1x Firespray + 4 TIE Fighters

1x FIrespray + 2-3 Interceptors

2x Firespray + escort

Triple Bounty Hunter

haha. u just beat me as i edited my original post. yep, thats 1, u got 2 more??

I edited mine as well. I don't know that there are three clear Imperial archetypes.

Does Vader + 4-5 Ties count as a swarm?

I think the list I had on "What I didn't play" is competetive:

Turr+

BH+recon+

Backstabber

NB

Little room for upgrades.

Triple BH is always hard to take down but I think it falls into the same problem with swarm...it can get a lot of modified wins in a timed game.

Scarlet Cowgirl and Variants needs a little more time but I think ultimately can't handle the # of bwings we're seeing.

I don't know that there are three clear Imperial archetypes.

Yeah. I think the real problem is that the TIE swarm is burned so indelibly into our collective experience of the game that it's taking some time for other archetypes to emerge.

Rebel lists have been forced from the beginning to mix ship types, look carefully at pilot abilities, and innovate. But for most of the game's lifespan, running Howlrunner with 5-6 other fighters--almost any 5-6 other fighters--has been both easy and effective. Why work on figuring out new archetypes when the old archetype keeps winning championships?

With Wave 4, though, I think we're going to see a sort of Cambrian explosion of new Imperial list families. I'm looking forward to it.

2 BH+ Gunner

2 Academies

2 Gammas w/ assault, Seismic

1 Gamma w/ Cluster, Seismic

Jonus w/ Squad leader, Seismic

Kath w/ EH, Seismic, Merc

OGP w/ Sensors, Engine

Backstaber

Academy Pilot.

I think the best question is, what competitive imperial squads don't have Tie Fighters or Firesprays. Interceptor Shuttle lists could work. Bomber lists work. But Tie's and Firesprays are the best imperial ships by a wide margin. The rebels have Yt's, Xwings, B-wings, in that range and turreted ships on par with the inerceptors, leaving the (pre-buff)A-wing at about shuttle level. Every rebel ship is better than Bombers(This predicated on my loathing of ordnance) and the Tie advanced.(Not by a lot for either one.)

This leaves Rebel lists feeling more diverse while Imperial lists feel stagnated. Despite all this neither faction is better than the others.

I've had some good games with three bounty hunters, two bounty hunters with gunner and the doomshuttle, and two shuttles and Boba Fett. Don't know how competitive they would be in a serious tournament though.

There are only 6 ships per side, still, so it's not as though there loads of options anywhere. Two more waves and we'll be cooking with gas.

A list I came up against that was extremely competative was:

Omicron w/ Fire Control x2

Omicron w/ Vader

Soontir Fel w/ PtL

It won a local tournament of 39 people. Won 6 of 6 games played that day.

I think the best question is, what competitive imperial squads don't have Tie Fighters or Firesprays. Interceptor Shuttle lists could work. Bomber lists work. But Tie's and Firesprays are the best imperial ships by a wide margin. The rebels have Yt's, Xwings, B-wings, in that range and turreted ships on par with the inerceptors, leaving the (pre-buff)A-wing at about shuttle level. Every rebel ship is better than Bombers(This predicated on my loathing of ordnance) and the Tie advanced.(Not by a lot for either one.)

This leaves Rebel lists feeling more diverse while Imperial lists feel stagnated. Despite all this neither faction is better than the others.

My shuttle article disagrees with you. 1. tie 2. shuttle 3. Squint 4. firespray.

3 Firesprays

2 Firesparys and Vader

Firespray, Shuttle, and Howlrunner

3 Shuttles and Howlrunner

Jonus and 3 Scimitar pilots

It really depends on what you mean by swarm. Do three bounty hunters count as a swarm? How about 5 TIEs. Does including Howelrunner count as a swarm, does Jonus?

The main ship in the Imperial arsenal is the TIE Fighter. What does it do well, it swarms. At 12 points you get a lot of ship for the expenditure. This means that any squadron built around TIEs will feel like a swarm.

But TIEs aren't the only ship the Empire has to choose from and there are plenty of other great ships to choose from.

I've had decent success with 2 tricked out firesprays (no escorts). Better than dual falcons IMO.

Lamda + a mix of interceptors (or anything else) does well.

Firespray & 2 bombers is quite strong.

Bomber & TIE Fighter mix

Interceptor & TIE Fighter mix

etc and so on.

Seriously folks, suck it up. The reason you aren't winning unless you play swarms isn't that swarms are the only competitive Imperial strat - the reason is that swarms are ridiculously easy to fly. All you're doing is hurling dice downrange until some stick.

Get better at the game, and you can fly almost anything competitively.

4 shuttles with 16 pts left over for upgrades.

One of my favs

Kath

Marksmen

Rebel captive

2x Omnicron pilots

One with just vader

The other with Hlc and sensor jammer

Another good one

2 bounty hunters both with recon spec.

Omnicron shuttle with hlc.

I like lots of hp,and whe flown correctly these builds are pretty sick

I lost (badly) to a two bounty hunter w/ recon specialist and a lame space cow (buzzsaw without EU) list at the final table at a store championship tournament that was attended by 21 people. I'll call that a good non swarm list.

Additionally I have had good success with a buzzsaw and three squint style list (I still haven't hammered out all the upgrades and pilots yet).

And my favorite imp list right now is Kath w/ ptl, recon specialist escorted by Howlrunner w/ swarm tactics and 3 academies. But this one has already been mentioned, and may be getting too close to a swarm.

I would also like to mention that I really like captain jonus with two more bombers and a couple of ties for escorts. However, even thou I win more often than I lose with this list I have found that its reliance on ordinance is too hit or miss to be a real tournament contender. And I think that is what a lot of the angst over the imperials is about concerning tournaments. XWM is overall a very balanced game, but the imperials will suffer in a tournament environment simply because so many of their ships are high risk/ high reward, and therefore will have a difficult time winning enough games in a row to come out on top in tournaments.

9-9-9

Vader - Concussion Miss., Engine Upgrade

Soontir Fel - PTL, Sh Upg.

Turr Phennir - VI, Stealth Dv.

Jonus makes ordinance very very good. Bombers with no ordinance are still 6 hull for 16 points and are pretty manoeuvrable.

I did pretty well with:-

Cpt Jonus - Concussion Missile

Scimitar - 2x Assault Missile, Proton Torpedo

Krassis - HLC

Also re. rebel diversity .... In 79 winning lists for the store championships there were 93 Bwings and 90 Xwings. So ... yeahhhhhhh I get what you are saying but seriously ... lack of diversity is also a problem for the rebels.

I haven't had the chance to give it a swing at tournaments, but so far Jax with PTL+ shield + hull, Fell with PTL + TC + Hull and RGP + shield has been treating me pretty well in casual games. Get Jax into the center of your opponent's formation and you outright wreck his offense and defense, and with +2 THP he can stand to take more shooting to get there and stay there.

I'd argue that if it hasn't top-5'd in at least a Regional tournament then it's not a "competitive list" and should be disqualified.

That REALLY narrows the number of Imperial lists...

But doesn't hit Rebel numbers much.

3x Bounty Hunter is a lot of fun, and hard to take out.

3x Bounty Hunter is a lot of fun, and hard to take out.

But is it beating Rebel lists in tournaments?

I'd argue that if it hasn't top-5'd in at least a Regional tournament then it's not a "competitive list" and should be disqualified.

That REALLY narrows the number of Imperial lists...

But doesn't hit Rebel numbers much.