Here's the rub for me, whenever I want to create an Imperial non-swarm tournament list, then I have to come up with "one-trick-pony" lists or fly all aces and pray to the dice gods.

Whenever I sit down and do it with rebels I can grab any combination of their top tier ships (e.g. Falcon, B, YT, soon to be A) and wreck face (so to speak). They have the counters to our generally superior mobility, they have the synergy, and the shields (that will thankfully change). On top of that, they have the strongest control option in the game in the form of Biggs.

Being an Imperial player at heart, and one who doesn't like to fly swarms - this, this annoys me.

Shhh, shhhh… don't you worry. Soon Rexlor Brath will be here to eat all the mean YT's. Just focus their shields down, it will all be over soon...

6-9 point TIEs? That would make me happy, Rebel scum not so much.

Ehhh, I really don't think we need even more swarm at the moment...

4: Increase the number of "Imperial Only" options for crew and add more bombs to counter the Astromech advantage.

This is a really good point! The Empire is more organized, better trained, and has more resources than the Rebels. Where is the Imperial Only crew to reflect this? A New Hope was the only time the Rebels KNEW they were getting into a head on fight with the Empire. Only reason they won is because Gen. Tarkin was an over confident idiot. Vader, and his small squad, was wiping the floor with the Rebels. Hoth, a head on battle started by the Empire, was a total disaster for the Rebels. The attack against the second Death Star was suppose to be a sneak attack, but it was a trap to lead the Rebels in. This back fired on the Empire, but again... it wasn't pretty for the Rebels. We never see a brute force win for the Rebellion. They always win due to trickery. The Empire is far more organized and has countless resources.

I would like to see this advantage reflected in FFG's fantastic game.

@sonova

That's still ridiculous to say.

If the Y-Wing needs an Astromech because it's avionics are too old to work properly, then why was it designed with one in the first place? It wasn't too old back in the Republic and they still wanted it to have one...

If I recall correctly, the real reason that they have Astromechs is to calculate hyperspace jumps. Ships without one could only remember a couple of coordinates. Most Imperial ships had no hyperdrive and that's the reason they weren't outfitted with them.

By the time of the Galactic Civil war (Episode 4) the Y-wing had already been retired from front line service and was primarily used as part of planetary militias for police and anti piracy actions, which is where the Rebellion got a hold of so many of them when entire planets defected. The original design for them dated back to the clone wars and by the time the Rebellion got them a lot of them had already been in service for more than a decade.

The initial design was intended to be flown as a two man ship with an astromech riding shotgun to manage the ancillary ship systems. Also I never said they had bad avionics. I said they had outdated avionics. A vintage Mustang will still fly properly with its original avionics but they wont be as easy to use or even in the same league as something that was designed 20+ years later.

And yeah they needed the droids for hyperspace calculations. But you know what? Every design after the start of the war went out of their way to remove the Astromech option (with the exception of the E-wing that had to have a R7 series droid to operate at peak efficiency). This was partly because they could not guarantee a reliable source of astromech droids since most of the astromech droids used by the Rebellion were either the personal property of defectors or outright stolen and they were relatively expensive to requisition and maintain legitimately.

Astromech droid slots; during the time of the Galactic Civil war, were an anachronism not a sign of technological superiority. So no. No astromech droids for the Empire unfortunately.

A vintage Mustang will still fly properly with its original avionics but they wont be as easy to use or even in the same league as something that was designed 20+ years later.

This mental image is a lot more interesting if you mentally substitute a '67 Ford Mustang instead of a '44 P-51D.

@sonova

That's still ridiculous to say.

If the Y-Wing needs an Astromech because it's avionics are too old to work properly, then why was it designed with one in the first place? It wasn't too old back in the Republic and they still wanted it to have one...

If I recall correctly, the real reason that they have Astromechs is to calculate hyperspace jumps. Ships without one could only remember a couple of coordinates. Most Imperial ships had no hyperdrive and that's the reason they weren't outfitted with them.

By the time of the Galactic Civil war (Episode 4) the Y-wing had already been retired from front line service and was primarily used as part of planetary militias for police and anti piracy actions, which is where the Rebellion got a hold of so many of them when entire planets defected. The original design for them dated back to the clone wars and by the time the Rebellion got them a lot of them had already been in service for more than a decade.

The initial design was intended to be flown as a two man ship with an astromech riding shotgun to manage the ancillary ship systems. Also I never said they had bad avionics. I said they had outdated avionics. A vintage Mustang will still fly properly with its original avionics but they wont be as easy to use or even in the same league as something that was designed 20+ years later.

And yeah they needed the droids for hyperspace calculations. But you know what? Every design after the start of the war went out of their way to remove the Astromech option (with the exception of the E-wing that had to have a R7 series droid to operate at peak efficiency). This was partly because they could not guarantee a reliable source of astromech droids since most of the astromech droids used by the Rebellion were either the personal property of defectors or outright stolen and they were relatively expensive to requisition and maintain legitimately.

Astromech droid slots; during the time of the Galactic Civil war, were an anachronism not a sign of technological superiority. So no. No astromech droids for the Empire unfortunately.

Ironically, they function exactly the opposite in the game.

A vintage Mustang will still fly properly with its original avionics but they wont be as easy to use or even in the same league as something that was designed 20+ years later.

This mental image is a lot more interesting if you mentally substitute a '67 Ford Mustang instead of a '44 P-51D.

too much Spaceballs for you

6-9 point TIEs? That would make me happy, Rebel scum not so much.

Ehhh, I really don't think we need even more swarm at the moment...

There's always room for smores! er... I mean swarms!

4: Increase the number of "Imperial Only" options for crew and add more bombs to counter the Astromech advantage.

This is a really good point! The Empire is more organized, better trained, and has more resources than the Rebels. Where is the Imperial Only crew to reflect this? A New Hope was the only time the Rebels KNEW they were getting into a head on fight with the Empire. Only reason they won is because Gen. Tarkin was an over confident idiot. Vader, and his small squad, was wiping the floor with the Rebels. Hoth, a head on battle started by the Empire, was a total disaster for the Rebels. The attack against the second Death Star was suppose to be a sneak attack, but it was a trap to lead the Rebels in. This back fired on the Empire, but again... it wasn't pretty for the Rebels. We never see a brute force win for the Rebellion. They always win due to trickery. The Empire is far more organized and has countless resources.

I would like to see this advantage reflected in FFG's fantastic game.

I totally agree. We'll just have to be patient. I expect that when FFG gets around to Imperial capital ships, we'll get a lot of new options.

Part of the problem is that the Firespray and Lambda have far fewer iconic pilots and crew than the YT-1300 and HWK-290. How could FFG include the YT-1300 with Han, Lando, and Chewie as pilots, without including their most iconic crew members (Luke, Cewie, Nien Nunb)? Frankly I'm surprised we didn't get Kyle and Jan crew with the HWK, instead of in the announced Rebel Aces.

But with the Firespray, they're already pulling from relatively obscure EU for the pilots, and Boba in particular is a loner. The shuttle should have gotten Palpatine, for sure, but who else would you put in it? Tarkin and Needa both have their shuttles mentioned, but never shown, and named Rebel characters actually spend as much time in Lambdas as named Imperials, going by movie time.

4: Increase the number of "Imperial Only" options for crew and add more bombs to counter the Astromech advantage.

This is a really good point! The Empire is more organized, better trained, and has more resources than the Rebels. Where is the Imperial Only crew to reflect this? A New Hope was the only time the Rebels KNEW they were getting into a head on fight with the Empire. Only reason they won is because Gen. Tarkin was an over confident idiot. Vader, and his small squad, was wiping the floor with the Rebels. Hoth, a head on battle started by the Empire, was a total disaster for the Rebels. The attack against the second Death Star was suppose to be a sneak attack, but it was a trap to lead the Rebels in. This back fired on the Empire, but again... it wasn't pretty for the Rebels. We never see a brute force win for the Rebellion. They always win due to trickery. The Empire is far more organized and has countless resources.

I would like to see this advantage reflected in FFG's fantastic game.

I totally agree. We'll just have to be patient. I expect that when FFG gets around to Imperial capital ships, we'll get a lot of new options.

Part of the problem is that the Firespray and Lambda have far fewer iconic pilots and crew than the YT-1300 and HWK-290. How could FFG include the YT-1300 with Han, Lando, and Chewie as pilots, without including their most iconic crew members (Luke, Cewie, Nien Nunb)? Frankly I'm surprised we didn't get Kyle and Jan crew with the HWK, instead of in the announced Rebel Aces.

But with the Firespray, they're already pulling from relatively obscure EU for the pilots, and Boba in particular is a loner. The shuttle should have gotten Palpatine, for sure, but who else would you put in it? Tarkin and Needa both have their shuttles mentioned, but never shown, and named Rebel characters actually spend as much time in Lambdas as named Imperials, going by movie time.

You're right that NAMED crew members might be hard for the empire.... but that's because the Empire is a machine and all of the members are faceless cogs for the most part. The Imperial Crew only cards should be types of imperial officers trained to do certain jobs. Again, the easiest imperial only crew member I'd like to see would create a second evade token of the actions (like Recon).

You're right that NAMED crew members might be hard for the empire.... but that's because the Empire is a machine and all of the members are faceless cogs for the most part. The Imperial Crew only cards should be types of imperial officers trained to do certain jobs. Again, the easiest imperial only crew member I'd like to see would create a second evade token of the actions (like Recon).

The Emperor, Tarkin, Piett, Ozzel, Needa, Veers, Boba Fett, Bosk, IG-88, 4-LOM, Dengar, Zuckuss, Jabba, Bib Fortuna and that's just from the movies alone.

I have no idea for what reasons FFG is being so stingy on giving the Empire more crew, but a lack of named characters is one of them.

Yeah, I want to see dedicated Imperial trained crew:

Coms Officer

Mechanic

Ordinance Officer

Electronic Warfare Expert

Damage Control Crewman

Engineer

Operations Specialist

Specialist Imperial trained crew for Imperial ships.

Show the Rebel scum why they were wrong to reject the advantages of the Imperial fleet.

The Emperor, Tarkin, Piett, Ozzel, Needa, Veers, Boba Fett, Bosk, IG-88, 4-LOM, Dengar, Zuckuss, Jabba, Bib Fortuna and that's just from the movies alone.

I have no idea for what reasons FFG is being so stingy on giving the Empire more crew, but a lack of named characters is one of them.

While I would like some Empire only crew to help in the space battles, AT-AT general Veers would not be one of them. .

While I would like some Empire only crew to help in the space battles, AT-AT general Veers would not be one of them. .

If the Rebels can get some use out of C-3PO in space battles, I'm sure the Imperials can find a way for Veers to be useful. Perhaps as a gunner?

You're right that NAMED crew members might be hard for the empire.... but that's because the Empire is a machine and all of the members are faceless cogs for the most part. The Imperial Crew only cards should be types of imperial officers trained to do certain jobs. Again, the easiest imperial only crew member I'd like to see would create a second evade token of the actions (like Recon).

The Emperor, Tarkin, Piett, Ozzel, Needa, Veers, Boba Fett, Bosk, IG-88, 4-LOM, Dengar, Zuckuss, Jabba, Bib Fortuna and that's just from the movies alone.

I have no idea for what reasons FFG is being so stingy on giving the Empire more crew, but a lack of named characters is one of them.

You do not need named characters to make Imperial Only cards. Look at Rebel Captive. If you'd ask me, I'd say FFG can easily make, say crew cards that are unique and Imperials Only too. Like take Flight Instructor for example, they only need to print "Imperials Only" and add a dot. Tadah! unique, can only be used by 1 side, still makes sense

To be blunt, I can't say I'm overly excited by the prospect of Assault Gunboats or Skiprays. What I would like to see is some upgrades and skills that perhaps allow a swarm to gain a bonus for concentrated fire (eg an attack die bonus for every third ship), or a bit more love for Darth Vader flying a TIE X1 - he was supposed to be one of the best pilots in the galaxy. What I would find interesting would be an 'off board' support option - similar to what FFG appear to be introducing in the Rebel Transport, where an Imp SD could lay down a barrage of turbo-laser fire (as per a template) which could effectively count as a 'no-go' area at the end of the turn, or even a tractor beam option to pull ships off course and into each other or obstacles

To be blunt, I can't say I'm overly excited by the prospect of Assault Gunboats or Skiprays. What I would like to see is some upgrades and skills that perhaps allow a swarm to gain a bonus for concentrated fire (eg an attack die bonus for every third ship)

Before we do this one, I'd like to hear why swarms need buffs in the first place. They're already the single most solid choice for Imperial lists.

OK, not necessarily buffs, but something that consolidates swarms as the defining Imp tactic - A strategies card pack, if you will - with Imp fleet sharing and benefitting from the swarm approach (eg a bombing run, with 2-3 Bombers supported by Academy TIEs) - an 'optimised' card pack for these sort of strategies would be an interesting starting point for new players. Or scenarios which bring this sort of idea into play

something that consolidates swarms as the defining Imp tactic

Yugh.

My biggest desire is for a way to play a 3-5 ship non-swarm, non-large base, fighter-based Imperial squadron without feeling like it's a huge risk or potentially uncompetitive. I like the imperial ship designs and the maneuverability of the TIEs/interceptors, but I'm not a huge fan of playing large base ships (nor do I feel like the firespray and a shuttle have any business flying in an imperial squadron outside of scenario play but that's fluff and not relevant to the topic) and although I'm glad bombers are in the game they aren't very interesting in a dogfight. Wave 4 seems to kind of be going in this direction but the tie defender is... weird, I will certainly be using them but we'll see if they actually end up being useful. The Phantom is really interesting but it seems very much in the same boat as the TIE interceptor: tricky to get a shot on but potentially fragile for its cost, and against a YT1300 much of its inherent advantages are lost.

I guess you could say my "gripe" is really with the YT1300. This topic has been discussed to death already but I have always felt that the greatest fumble in the game's design was adding a ship with a 360 degree range 1-3 primary weapon in a game that is otherwise all about planning and maneuvering. Certainly YT1300s are beatable, even by a small imperial fighter group, but so much of the engagement is decided by dice its still a major risk to even try it.

I don't really care about winning all the time and I'm not overly concerned with competitive balance but it is a bit of a nagging thing in the back of my mind that the most competitive builds in a dogfighting game tend to be massed firepower swarms and large bulky ships.

OK, not necessarily buffs, but something that consolidates swarms as the defining Imp tactic

What? Why- why would you want that? All that does is homogenize the game, turn at least two of our models completely useless (four if you count the next wave) and everything but the standard TIE fighter a questionable choice to take at best.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of what a lot of Imperial players want. Heck, even most Imperial players that love swarms tend to agree that having more diverse, viable lists is a good thing.

My biggest desire is for a way to play a 3-5 ship non-swarm, non-large base, fighter-based Imperial squadron without feeling like it's a huge risk or potentially uncompetitive. I like the imperial ship designs and the maneuverability of the TIEs/interceptors, but I'm not a huge fan of playing large base ships (nor do I feel like the firespray and a shuttle have any business flying in an imperial squadron outside of scenario play but that's fluff and not relevant to the topic) and although I'm glad bombers are in the game they aren't very interesting in a dogfight. Wave 4 seems to kind of be going in this direction but the tie defender is... weird, I will certainly be using them but we'll see if they actually end up being useful. The Phantom is really interesting but it seems very much in the same boat as the TIE interceptor: tricky to get a shot on but potentially fragile for its cost, and against a YT1300 much of its inherent advantages are lost.

I guess you could say my "gripe" is really with the YT1300. This topic has been discussed to death already but I have always felt that the greatest fumble in the game's design was adding a ship with a 360 degree range 1-3 primary weapon in a game that is otherwise all about planning and maneuvering. Certainly YT1300s are beatable, even by a small imperial fighter group, but so much of the engagement is decided by dice its still a major risk to even try it.

I don't really care about winning all the time and I'm not overly concerned with competitive balance but it is a bit of a nagging thing in the back of my mind that the most competitive builds in a dogfighting game tend to be massed firepower swarms and large bulky ships.

now that you mention it, I have to agree that really most of the problems about smaller imp builds being uncompetitive stem from the mere presense of the Falcon. Small ship small numbers imperial builds can and does fare pretty well against small ship rebel builds, and are pretty much on par with them actually. then comes along the Falcon and all these imperial builds are wiped until only the swarm is left

If you ask me, the easiest fix would be to declare the Falcon's 360deg firing a secondary weapon. Most of the deaths come from the range 1 4 dice attack, and at the same time making the 360deg a secondary weapon also means that falcon players still have some element of flying / pointing the firing arc. ie. avoid pointing at the enemy at range 3, try to point at the enemy at range 1, so there's also something good for the rebels with the same fix. Not exactly a nerf, not exactly a buff either, but now imperial small ship builds are much more viable, and rebel falcon builds are also more viable too

I guess you could say my "gripe" is really with the YT1300. This topic has been discussed to death already but I have always felt that the greatest fumble in the game's design was adding a ship with a 360 degree range 1-3 primary weapon in a game that is otherwise all about planning and maneuvering.

Attack wing got around the problem by reducing the attack die value by 1 if you fired outside your primary arc (at least for the Enterprise ship that I saw). I think that would be a great idea.

If you ask me, the easiest fix would be to declare the Falcon's 360deg firing a secondary weapon.

Um, no. I like my +1 evade die thank you very much.

OK, not necessarily buffs, but something that consolidates swarms as the defining Imp tactic

Already have this.

It's called the TIE Fighter Expansion.

It has Howlrunner...