iam an imperial gamer and like to fly 3 advances and 1 academy for example i even mastered the 6 tie swarm. ( not going over that scale of 6 need training).

just sayin so far iam happy with the imperial releases but yes we need some more lovint. rebles got 3 toys in a row ehm 4 excuse me ( transport, corvette, wave 4 and rebel aces)

and at last

I WANT SOME DAYUM PIRATES !!!

But there are limits. Predator is universally good. Yes. But then you can have some fascinating possibilities when you combine it with Howlrunner and/or Jonus. Rebels can use Outmaneuver, yes. But I would argue that it is better on ships that can Barrel Roll, which tends to be an Imperial specialty. I'm not seeing much benefit of it on an X-wing. And the fact that Outmaneuver hurts the turret users the most.

And in the end, I think the effects Predator will have on the meta heavily favors the Imperials. The upgrading of pilot skill on your base ships favors the Imperials, since they have the most generic ships with an elite talent.

Of course, going back to the Z-95 preview, it was glossed over that Wingman is best used on a Black Squadron TIE. A 16 pt Wingman will really help the Imperials.

How to appease the Imperial fans:

Add the Star destroyer to the game

Now how to appease the newly upset Rebel fans:

Add Mon Calamari Cruisers to the game

Now to re-appease the Imperial fans:

Add the Super Star Destroyer to the game

Now how to re-appease the Rebel fans:

Add an A-wing that crashes into that causes the Super Star Destroyer to be destroyed

Now how to re-re-appease the Imperial fans:

Add the Death Star to the game

How to stop caring and just troll everyone:

Add the YV faction to the game or possibly this post

Give people a little and they want more simple as that. So I just focus on enjoying the game as do most people I would assume.

Keyan and Wes disgustingly strong? Really? Keyan is strong no doubt, but the sky is falling reaction is so overboard. Wes is good, but is the same cost as Wedge. Is he Wedge strong?

I actually think he is, but I'll fob the numbers off on Robert to run since I can't right now.

What's the difference between Wedge's agility reduction, and Janson removing a token so the next attack doesn't have to deal with it? Off the top of my head I think it's probably similar, if not better. Wedge reducing agility drops defense by .375 without focus, .625 with. Janson costs a guaranteed 1 if you take away an Evade, killing a focus will depend on the die count.

Janson requires teamwork rather than being individual, but brings a lot more flexibility in return. It's also not guaranteed - if your attack would have forced the opponent to spend it anyway, you don't gain anything. But especially against multi-token targets, it's awesome. He's going to be a very solid foil to Fel.

but the fact still remains that the cooperative effects tend to create stronger lists. Even on the Imperial side alone, you can see Howlrunner, Squad Leader, Swarm Tactics leading the pack since Wave 1. Since Wave 1. Nearly 1 whole year of developments, and the competitive stuff on the Imperial side is still from Wave 1.

Yeah, the Imperials need some counterpart to the Garven, Dutch, and Lando lists that are burning up the tournament scene right now. And don't even get me started on the HWKs - I am SOOOOO tired of seeing those things across the table.

Wait... huh?

I don't disagree that it would be nice to see more synergy potential for the Imperials, but the idea that synergy is itself stronger in X-wing is honestly laughable. Yes, there are some specific boosting effects that are so good they're lynchpins, like Howlrunner and... uhm... there's... hm.

I don't disagree that it would be nice to see more synergy potential for the Imperials, but the idea that synergy is itself stronger in X-wing is honestly laughable. Yes, there are some specific boosting effects that are so good they're lynchpins, like Howlrunner and... uhm... there's... hm.

Meta for different area differs for obvious reasons, and it just so happens that over here most of the winning lists happen to have a lot of synergistic combos at work

deny it all you want, fact is that these lists are kicking butt over here, and that's that. Is synergy itself stronger in Xwing? Maybe, maybe not, but TL+F is still the best way to guarantee a full string of hits, it is still the best way to defend your vulnerable guys via Biggs / DrawFire / both, it will still be the best way to pull off combat tricks, eg. wingman, squad leader, etc.

And it is likely to get better as more ways to disable individual ships appear, eg. more ships being able to ionize opponents, more ways to give out stress tokens, ships with different dials that could be employed to block opponents, etcetc. For lists playing around synergies, you could simply shift the supportive effects from Rookie Xwing A to Rookie Xwing B. Even if I were to lose Garven, my Rookie Xwing would still be the same as your Rookie Xwing.

you brought up the point about synergy lists / effects not being as important as they are. If that is the case, then why do we see Howlrunner played so often on the Imperial side?

Being able to win a match at all. But then that's just me being rubbish and not the ships/upgrades.

Generally I'm pleased with the imperials and they fly and function well enough. At the highest levels of play, I can see where people would want a bit more. For fun, there are no issues. For competitive play I don't think there is real contention that tie swarm is still king for the imperial side. While the rebels enjoy a few top tier builds to play around with.

There isn't anything generally wrong with either side until you get to highest tier play and what ends up viable and what isn't.

Just one players thoughts.

but the fact still remains that the cooperative effects tend to create stronger lists. Even on the Imperial side alone, you can see Howlrunner, Squad Leader, Swarm Tactics leading the pack since Wave 1. Since Wave 1. Nearly 1 whole year of developments, and the competitive stuff on the Imperial side is still from Wave 1.

Yeah, the Imperials need some counterpart to the Garven, Dutch, and Lando lists that are burning up the tournament scene right now. And don't even get me started on the HWKs - I am SOOOOO tired of seeing those things across the table.

Wait... huh?

I don't disagree that it would be nice to see more synergy potential for the Imperials, but the idea that synergy is itself stronger in X-wing is honestly laughable. Yes, there are some specific boosting effects that are so good they're lynchpins, like Howlrunner and... uhm... there's... hm.

I tried a synergy list at my last tournament and got utterly destroyed. I knew it wasn't a top-tier list but I thought it could be good if it worked. It was built around Garven and Kyle. But considering that I couldn't roll an eye literally to save my life, it was worthless. I rolled so many blanks that even my opponents were shaking their heads.

but the fact still remains that the cooperative effects tend to create stronger lists. Even on the Imperial side alone, you can see Howlrunner, Squad Leader, Swarm Tactics leading the pack since Wave 1. Since Wave 1. Nearly 1 whole year of developments, and the competitive stuff on the Imperial side is still from Wave 1.

Yeah, the Imperials need some counterpart to the Garven, Dutch, and Lando lists that are burning up the tournament scene right now. And don't even get me started on the HWKs - I am SOOOOO tired of seeing those things across the table.

Wait... huh?

I don't disagree that it would be nice to see more synergy potential for the Imperials, but the idea that synergy is itself stronger in X-wing is honestly laughable. Yes, there are some specific boosting effects that are so good they're lynchpins, like Howlrunner and... uhm... there's... hm.

I tried a synergy list at my last tournament and got utterly destroyed. I knew it wasn't a top-tier list but I thought it could be good if it worked. It was built around Garven and Kyle. But considering that I couldn't roll an eye literally to save my life, it was worthless. I rolled so many blanks that even my opponents were shaking their heads.

That's the thing, synergy lists are often 'go big, or go home' lists. When they work, they steamroll everything, but when they fail (which is more often than not) they go down in flames, big time.

Don't like your opponent running a synergy list, kill the linchpin and move on with your day. And honestly, between Interceptors, Phantoms, and the Defender, Imperials have a bunch of 'scalpel' options to slice through a list and drop the synergistic effects.

I play both. To be honest, once Phantom and Defender arrive, the only thing I'd want is for the Advanced to get a fix of some kind, and maybe a handful more pilots/abilities that can boost some likeable but underachieving pilots. For equity's sake, they need a couple ships on the Transport/Tantive scale.

For the Rebels, another large-base ship, probably somewhere between the Shuttle and Firespray in terms of cost/performance. With the Transport and Aces coming, nearly everything they have is pretty optimized.

I'm and Imperial "fanboy" yet know to conquer my enemy I must know what they will do/can do.

I'm not asking for some auto wins... I'm asking for less "auto lose". I CAN beat a falcon squad with only interceptors but not with the reliability that any well built 4 and soon to be 5 rebel list can 50/50 almost any list.

The lack of synergy is really dragging. I understand that the FLUFF says they are individualistic and about order and formations but in game play they have the "advantage" of maneuverability... but often only if they sacrifice firepower and defense to do so. These 2 ideas are at odds. If anything, the "order", "fanaticism", and "structure" the empire imposes should mean MORE synergy than the Rebel [scum] who do silly things like purposefully crash into things, turn off targeting computers against direct orders, and break formation on "feelings".

None of that really answer the topic question though:

1. Empire only upgrades/crew/cards in general that won't just give the Rebels more toys too.

2. If you're not going to give us synergy, at least give us PS. Why are the technologically advanced ships harder to fly?

3. DECENT BOMBS. If it's going to be the imperials "thing" it could at least be a decent thing.

4. Synergy though. Seriously. Fluff is not a good enough reason to imbalance a miniatures game.

5. Tie advanced and Firespray Updates. You get more variety by having more options. The Advanced (outside of vader) is not really an option; the empire is effectively playing with one less ship. Firesprays are good, their pilot abilities are mostly not, and they were designed before higher PS pilots started getting "free" abilities and EPTs.

6. Some indication that the 4 new toys the rebels are getting will have imperial counterparts to counter them. The lack of any news is frustrating.

7. Stop saying "you're playing it wrong", "stop trying to joust with interceptors", and "you can just always stay out of arcs". Those are not the problems most of us are experiencing.

And I agree...Wingman is going to be pretty dang big for the imperials. It's the biggest thing since PTL in awings that will actually cross over from a rebel release. Wingman + shuttles = amazing. Wingman + interceptors... well, that requires more playtesting.

I think the seismic charges are fantastic. Only 2 points for a card that gurantees damage if youplace it correctly? That can't be lost due to the dreaded "Munitions Failure" crit? I try to put bombs in every list that I can. I hope they come out with more bombs, sure, but if Seismics was all we ever got, they are already really good.

never mind... read bombs+ munitions failsafe, and not failed munitions crit...

More bombs would be fun. Seismics are great but finicky, protons powerful but even more finicky and more expensive.

Five things id like to see

Fix the advanced as the least desirable ship in all of xwing

Add Capitol imperial ships

With the above Add more unique imperial crew

Add unique bounty hunter ships to imperial maybe with an ability that at long as the bounty hunter maintains a target lock that target can't use any actions or special abilities.

Add the tractor beam to imperial ships

Fixing the Advanced is simply a matter of releasing a huge ship with an Advanced escort with four new pilots and accepting that the four we've got are a write off.

Five things id like to see

Fix the advanced as the least desirable ship in all of xwing

Add Capitol imperial ships

With the above Add more unique imperial crew

Add unique bounty hunter ships to imperial maybe with an ability that at long as the bounty hunter maintains a target lock that target can't use any actions or special abilities.

Add the tractor beam to imperial ships

I was always of the opinion that one of the BH pilots would have a target lock sharing/boosting ability. I think the alt ability we though of for Fett was that he could re-roll a defense dice against a target he had locked. Krassis' is kinda TL.

Firespray-31

• New crew and new missiles generally increase the available options for the Firespray.
• Predator is very good for the Firespray, which suffers from being relatively easy to block.

Also new Torpedoes (Slave 1 Title) and new bombs, if there ever are any. We know about Flechette torpedoes, but no new bombs this wave.

Munitions Failsafe with the new missiles/torps can make Krassis a little more interesting.

Bring out

Tie Defender in May

Tie Phantom in June

E Wing in July

Z-95 in Aug

Fixing the Advanced is simply a matter of releasing a huge ship with an Advanced escort with four new pilots and accepting that the four we've got are a write off.

Are you including Vader in that list of 4. Say all you want about the TIE Advanced but Vader is a beast.

As for what would make me happy. I am happy. I love playing the Imperials. Some ships may be better than others in the Imperial arsenal. But if you are just looking at point for point the best buys in the game have to be Academy Pilots and Bounty Hunters, or more generally TIE Fighters and Firespays.

I won't talk about the Advanced cuz, I have already had that fight too many times. But let's look at the other ships. The Shuttle is awesome when used and upgraded properly. TIE Bombers are almost boringly good when flown in a Jonus Swarm. That leaves the TIE Interceptor, sure it might not be the best choice in a tournament, but it the funnest ship in the whole game to fly.

:)

I'm happy

I am happy. The world isn't ending. Imperials are still strong.

Fixing the Advanced is simply a matter of releasing a huge ship with an Advanced escort with four new pilots and accepting that the four we've got are a write off.

Are you including Vader in that list of 4. Say all you want about the TIE Advanced but Vader is a beast.

I was oversimplifying a bit.

And I like that both factions have a different playing style.

Honestly, I'm disappointed with the Rebel Aces. The Imperial Aces gave us two copies of PtL (great upgrade that only comes with the A-wing) and a new title for the Interceptor. Opportunist is a little bit of a let down, but I'm still trying to find a place for it.

The Rebel Aces should come with a HLC and Adv. Sensors. Presently, you have to buy Imperial ships to get these two fantastic upgrades for the B-wing. I still don't like the A-wing, even with it's new double EPT trick.... and FFG miss a good opportunity to help fix other issues with the Chardaan Rift card. Had they made it available to all non-large ships with a missile slot, it would have been a fantastic card.

What can FFG do to make the Dark Side of me happy? Fix the Advanced. Vader is amazing, as he should be. But the Advanced miniature feels neglected in my collection. If Vader doesn't take him out to play, it doesn't get to play at all.

I've been reading both the Defender thread and this thread, and I don't think it's worth my time to push back individually on all of the bad facts and unfounded implications going around on both of them at this point.

Instead, I'll put it this way. Here are the trends I see for Imperial ships in the recent and upcoming releases (meaning Imperial Aces and Wave 4):

TIE Fighter

• Not much going on here, although arguably TIE Fighters don't need any more help.

TIE Advanced

• Okay, admittedly not a lot going on here, either. The Advanced is probably going to have to wait for its own A-wing style fix.

TIE Interceptor

• Imperial Aces pilots generally represent a 1-point cost break on high-PS Interceptors.
• Interceptors have the only generic higher than PS4, and their PS6 generic has an EPT.
• Interceptors have the unique ability to stack durability modifications.
• Predator and Outmaneuver, released with the Defender, are both excellent talents for Interceptors.

Firespray-31

• New crew and new missiles generally increase the available options for the Firespray.
• Predator is very good for the Firespray, which suffers from being relatively easy to block.

Lambda -class Shuttle

• New crew generally increase the available options for the Lambda.

TIE Bomber

• Ion Pulse Missiles and Flechette Torpedoes make Bombers more able to function as control platforms.
• Ion Pulse Missiles and Flechette Torpedoes are also cheaper than existing ordnance, easing the burden of carrying multiple pieces of ordnance.
• Munitions Failsafe is a giant step forward for Bombers, since it substantially increases the reliability of ordnance.

Upcoming releases

• The Phantom is shaping up to be a violently angry ninja master, with massive maneuverability, 4 Attack, and up to 4 Agility. Free focus from the spoiled PS7 pilot is icing on the cake.
• The Defender may be slightly overcosted in general, but Delta Squadron + Ion Cannon is competitively priced with respect to the Bounty Hunter (in a metagame that includes lots of &$%! B-wings), and the pilot abilities are good enough that they will at least require table time before writing them off as non-competitive.

The flood of upgrades helps the Interceptor and Bomber, which are popularly perceived as needing the most help next to the Advanced. FFG's previews and leaks certainly make it look like the Empire is getting some sexy new toys, while the Rebellion is getting a pair of respectable workhorses. Apparently that's not enough.

The overall trend for Imperial design appears to be increase the number of viable swarm counters (e.g., Predator), while also increasing the number of viable alternatives to the swarm archetype (Interceptor boosts, Bomber boosts, additional expensive centerpieces like Rexler Brath). Apparently that's also not enough.

So the question posed in the thread title isn't rhetorical. If this forum's frustrated Imperial players were in charge of FFG's design team, what would change about those current trends? What kind of upgrades, specifically, would make you more comfortable with the game's direction?

I agree with your perspective here almost in its totality, but I do think there is one problem in terms of design space.

The droid upgrade.

Sure, the imperials have the bomb upgrade as unique to them, but it has a single function use. The droid slot allows for a lot more flexibility and tend to be cheaper for what they do. You can improve maneuver, shields, make your ship more agile, and on upcoming droids add stress to an opponent or even add an EPT to a pilot that doesn't have one.

There really isn't anything on an imperial ship that is going to make up for this kind of flexibility. Maybe they need to add a "Dark Side" upgrade or something to certain ships, I don't know, but the droid is providing them with some design flexibility on some of the rebellion ships that just doesn't exist on the Empire.

Presently, you have to buy Imperial ships to get these two fantastic upgrades for the B-wing.

AdvSen comes with the E-Wing.