"Canon" technological jargon is worthless in this game. A game has to be designed to be balanced, where the "real world" situations don't. And often, are not balanced or exaggerated for dramatic effect. You cannot use a scenario to justify what would be balanced in the broader tournament game, which will have different rules.

If anything, Attack Wing points to the dangers of having easy access to high levels of attack dice.

Your correct in your assumption, that is why I wrote the total dice and then the ammount of vollys it takes to get them. Its not really missleading because all I need to do is miss with one attack dice from the first volly to get a whole new volly. I also would prefer to use Expose over Oppertunist.

That's not how it works. A "hit" is when at least one attack die remains uncancelled.

This might sound harsh but if you don't want your ships lost to my ships that yous should manuver them so they don't take hits.

If this is true, and it's more important than balancing the number of attack dice (and therefore damage) available to a ship, why isn't the game designed so that every ship is destroyed by the first attack that hits?

...The X1 supposedly has the SFS Ls-9.3 cannons even though other sources have it listed as having heavy blasters. Now even if it does have the 9.3s they wont be as powerful because they have been dramatically chopped down in size. The crossections show the 9.3 cannon running down all though way to the targeting computer in the structure, it possible goes further but they do not show what the crossections look like in the back part of the pannels of the Interceptor...

Your correct in your assumption, that is why I wrote the total dice and then the ammount of vollys it takes to get them. Its not really missleading because all I need to do is miss with one attack dice from the first volly to get a whole new volly.

That's not how Gunner works. Attack dice don't miss; attacks miss. A Gunner only activates if, after using the results from defense dice to cancel results from attack dice, there are no remaining [hit] or [crit] symbols.

I also would prefer to use Expose over Oppertunist.

Statistically, that's almost never a good idea.

Yes but like I pointed out, most games that we play wont be in officail compititions, or at least for most people.

You're right. Most people play the "plonk 100 points of fighters against eachother and let's fly!" which also don't use the Prototype rules.

Maybe a new missile that is REALLY effective against big ships (like 6 attack die and NOTHING can cancel the crits) but not against standard size ( 2 or 3 attack die).

Isn't the Proton Rocket something like that?

This might sound harsh but if you don't want your ships lost to my ships that yous should manuver them so they don't take hits.

If this is true, and it's more important than balancing the number of attack dice (and therefore damage) available to a ship, why isn't the game designed so that every ship is destroyed by the first attack that hits?

...The X1 supposedly has the SFS Ls-9.3 cannons even though other sources have it listed as having heavy blasters. Now even if it does have the 9.3s they wont be as powerful because they have been dramatically chopped down in size. The crossections show the 9.3 cannon running down all though way to the targeting computer in the structure, it possible goes further but they do not show what the crossections look like in the back part of the pannels of the Interceptor...

Your correct in your assumption, that is why I wrote the total dice and then the ammount of vollys it takes to get them. Its not really missleading because all I need to do is miss with one attack dice from the first volly to get a whole new volly.

That's not how Gunner works. Attack dice don't miss; attacks miss. A Gunner only activates if, after using the results from defense dice to cancel results from attack dice, there are no remaining [hit] or [crit] symbols.

I also would prefer to use Expose over Oppertunist.

Statistically, that's almost never a good idea.

For your first responce I will point out that the Imperial craft do die in droves except for large craft and bombers, excluding Aces and 4th Wave. The empire should get accouple weapons that take away the advantage of highly shielded craft. I would be ok with it being higher priced than most upgrades and ept cards.

2nd post yes the 9.3 laser cannon has the most mass out of all the fighter armed laser cannons we have seen in all the mediums.

I was meant to even defeat shielded craft and it does this job very well both in ROTJ, cut scenes in videogames, and graphic novels. A singel beam has been shown to be good enough to vap A-Wings and X-Wings and good enough to break apart Y-Wings. One Beam. You should see what it does with quad-link 9.3 to cap ships in the X-Wing graphic novel series and illistrated pictures showing suprise attacks on Reb fleets.

For your third post do you have a refrence for the rules about how gunner works? I was talking with people about that ability and they didnt say it works how you are saying.

Here's a question, since you are so much about this ridiculous technobabble. How is anything you are describing sound balanced? Again, this isn't friggin Attack Wing. Attack Wing shows just how much of an issue massive attacks or defenses can be. The designer designed it so one shotting a TIE is possible, but you need ideal circumstances for that to happen. But not as often as you see on screen.

Lol @ this argument.

Dude doesn't even understand basic game rules. No point arguing balance with him.

Isn't there a "dealing with trolls" thread out there somewhere...

Maybe a new missile that is REALLY effective against big ships (like 6 attack die and NOTHING can cancel the crits) but not against standard size ( 2 or 3 attack die).

Isn't the Proton Rocket something like that?

Maybe the Proton Rocket works just like the Turbolasers: evade dice are doubled up

For your third post do you have a refrence for the rules about how gunner works? I was talking with people about that ability and they didnt say it works how you are saying.

Gunner works this way.

You attack as normal per the rules:

-roll attack dice

-modify them using focus, reroll, etc

-defender roll defense dice

-Modify them using focus, adding evade token, etc

Now, if the attack miss, you use Gunner and repeat with your primary attack. This is the last attack you can make this turn.

For your third post do you have a refrence for the rules about how gunner works? I was talking with people about that ability and they didnt say it works how you are saying.

Gunner works this way.

You attack as normal per the rules:

-roll attack dice

-modify them using focus, reroll, etc

-defender roll defense dice

-Modify them using focus, adding evade token, etc

Now, if the attack miss, you use Gunner and repeat with your primary attack. This is the last attack you can make this turn.

The reference for the way that Gunner works is the core rulebook.

The term "hit" is defined in BOLD on page 12.

Lol @ this argument.

Dude doesn't even understand basic game rules. No point arguing balance with him.

Isn't there a "dealing with trolls" thread out there somewhere...

Hit the report button...all the time... every time.

I wouldn't mind seeing an Imperial only Munitions Overload. A modification that lets you roll 1 red die for each unspent missile, bomb or torpedo when your ship is destroyed, dealing X damage to ships in range 1.

I wouldn't mind seeing an Imperial only Munitions Overload. A modification that lets you roll 1 red die for each unspent missile, bomb or torpedo when your ship is destroyed, dealing X damage to ships in range 1.

Why imp only?

I wouldn't mind seeing an Imperial only Munitions Overload. A modification that lets you roll 1 red die for each unspent missile, bomb or torpedo when your ship is destroyed, dealing X damage to ships in range 1.

Why imp only?

Shoddy workmanship on the cheap making them more liable to accidentally explode at the end?

Nah, no reason other than just giving the Imps more toys. .

I would think it would make fully loaded bombers more likely though, more than munitions failsafe will at any rate.

Here's a question, since you are so much about this ridiculous technobabble. How is anything you are describing sound balanced? Again, this isn't friggin Attack Wing. Attack Wing shows just how much of an issue massive attacks or defenses can be. The designer designed it so one shotting a TIE is possible, but you need ideal circumstances for that to happen. But not as often as you see on screen.

It can be ballanced based on the point cost of the upgrade. Even though I don't believe in using the callculations you guys have made that show the % for hits with the diffrent ships primary weapons, I will point out that this weapon would not for sure destroy a large base ship in one round unless more than one ship is attacking it, which in that case you can do that with the weapons we already got in the game.

World peace, 2 day work weeks, literally bacon on everything, and wives who don't roll their eye when we try to tell them about our current squad list...

World peace, 2 day work weeks, literally bacon on everything, and wives who don't roll their eye when we try to tell them about our current squad list...

This would make a Rebel player happy as well

This train left Whine Station and was headed south along Logic Railroad, took a wrong turn at Retarded Junction and has fallen off a cliff somewhere near Face Palm Gully.

This train left Whine Station and was headed south along Logic Railroad, took a wrong turn at Retarded Junction and has fallen off a cliff somewhere near Face Palm Gully.

Glad you felt the need to use words like Logic and Retarded....you must be a Rebel player.

This train left Whine Station and was headed south along Logic Railroad, took a wrong turn at Retarded Junction and has fallen off a cliff somewhere near Face Palm Gully.

Glad you felt the need to use words like Logic and Retarded....you must be a Rebel player.

Would you prefer 'Special Needs'?

I think the beer rule is still the best. Do we need a multiplier rule based on the importance of the game being played? You know, 6 pack to start if it happens to you at regionals but a full keg if it's during worlds finals?

This train left Whine Station and was headed south along Logic Railroad, took a wrong turn at Retarded Junction and has fallen off a cliff somewhere near Face Palm Gully.

Glad you felt the need to use words like Logic and Retarded....you must be a Rebel player.

Would you prefer 'Special Needs'?

I would prefer that offensive and immflamarory language of all sorts stays off the forum. If you already know a substitute word (not a very good one by the way= equally offensive) then you already know its nothing to jest about.

This train left Whine Station and was headed south along Logic Railroad, took a wrong turn at Retarded Junction and has fallen off a cliff somewhere near Face Palm Gully.

Glad you felt the need to use words like Logic and Retarded....you must be a Rebel player.

Would you prefer 'Special Needs'?

I would prefer that offensive and immflamarory language of all sorts stays off the forum. If you already know a substitute word (not a very good one by the way= equally offensive) then you already know its nothing to jest about.

Either way, he correctly summarized the discussion. At first we had a good discussion, then things got stupid. Then they got really stupid. Most forum topics go that way.