So,

I am a pretty good player of this game and I win more than I lose by about 70/30 ratio, but I have run into a list I just can't seem to take out with the Empire.

Three naked Blue Squadron and Wedge Antilles with PtL and an R2 unit. (Sub in most named Rebels)

I have tried various Interceptor lists, but getting in behind them is the problem as Wedge is an Int killer in this config with B-Wing back up.

You sure as hell can't joust em with Ints and the lack of a 1 straight or 1 soft is hurting out turning the B's. 1-1 I can take em, but the B's are excellent at short move positioning to overlap fire.

I really do not want to resort to the swarm, my next attempt will be with 3 naked Firesprays and take them head to head.

Another option is to use a couple of Omicron Shuttles with Adv. Sensors and an Engine Upgrade and ram the B's or use base size as a blocker, then set up a Firespray as heavy fire support.

Any ideas out there. I dearly love flying my Ints, but these babies just chew me up.

Why are you against the Swarm here?

B's have crap for Agility, so loading up on the shots is going to tear them to pieces. Bombers would also be an option here.

Why are you against the Swarm here?

B's have crap for Agility, so loading up on the shots is going to tear them to pieces. Bombers would also be an option here.

He probably doesn't like flying swarms or doesn't have the Ties. Swarms have a negative rep, take a long time, and aren't the most fun. Plus the cost of getting eight Ties is pretty high.

I have the ties, I just find the list boring to fly.....

Bombers are an interesting thought, but will be a one trick pony. Either the alpha strike finishes 2+ ships, or you are worse off than Int's after that.

(Bloody B-Wings )

Why are you against the Swarm here?

B's have crap for Agility, so loading up on the shots is going to tear them to pieces. Bombers would also be an option here.

He probably doesn't like flying swarms or doesn't have the Ties. Swarms have a negative rep, take a long time, and aren't the most fun. Plus the cost of getting eight Ties is pretty high.

Fair enough.

Scimitar + PT + Seismic x 3

Jendon + ...

A swarm

Seriously, slip a couple Tie Fighters into your list to combat the B wings. A group of Ties is worth more when fighting B Wings than 1 or 2 Ace interceptors.

I assume you're just running into rock to your scissors sort of thing with your list. Maybe

Bombers don't seem to work as well against B wings, imo. Can't 1 shot them like you sometimes can an X Wing. 2 missiles is a minimum, and you'll lose 1 bomber in the process, from my experience.

I think it is a rock to scissors thing really. I get pretty good results with Ints vs other lists. Even turrets don't phase me much.

I've thrown this one around on a few threads lately, it worked well for me. It was more effective against lists that had Shuttles or YTs in them, but it still was doing well against a low level BBBAA list, other than my poor ability to navigate through the swarm and asteroids.

Krassis w/HLC, APL & Rec Spec

Jonus w/PT & Determination

Howlrunner w/Swarm Tactic & Shield Upgrade (so that Krass can fire at PS 8)

I start Krass pointing straight into the map, with Jonus beside, and Howl facing directly at Krass. First turn, Krass moves 1 straight, Jonus goes 2 straight and Howl does a 1 turn to fall in directly behind Krass. Move at your leisure. Keep Jonus & Howl beside Krass, take Focus x2 every turn with Krass and let your wings provide reroll support as needed.

That list needs to be taken down by a quality pilot Empire list. (IMHO)

Vader + Swarm Tactics + Assault Missile

Rhymer + PTL + Cluster Missile + Cluster Missile

Carnor Jax + Veteran Instincts

The idea: Fly Vader and Rhymer in a tight formation with Jax far off on a flank. Try to alpha Wedge. See if Jax can get a shot off. See what Vader's Homing Missile does. If Wedge is still up, fire a cluster missile from Rhymer at RB3.

Wedge should be dead from all that fire. He has nothing to hide behind (no Biggs). Next turn, Jax should soften up a Bwing. Then have Vader fire some rb2 shots at it and then pummel it with the final cluster missile. You should now be facing 2 bwings. At this point, its all about out manuevering him and tearing him apart with Jax. He will absolutely HOSE bwings (not as badly as ties). His Bs will be moving before you and firing afterwards. Always barrel roll out of shots, dont worry about focus unless you have clear shots without retaliation. The remaining Bwings should be ripped apart fast.

I have a feeling that the high PS alpha strike will become much more prevalent with the next few waves and the swarm of crap pilots will be dead.

TIEs do well against 1 agility ships. If you are bored with TIE Swarms take all the named TIEs and it is a very solid list. It flys very different than just Howelrunner + as many Academy Pilots as you can fit in.

If you are having troubles with the B-wings and their advanced sensors you can try some upgrades that stress them out. If a ship starts out stressed they can't really use their advanced sensors.

If you want to meet B-wing flexibility for flexibility, try some shuttles. Stat-wise they are very much like the B-wings. They are even more upgradeable and they can take gunners. Gunner is IMO the best offensive upgrade in the game since it doesn't take your action.

That list needs to be taken down by a quality pilot Empire list. (IMHO)

Vader + Swarm Tactics + Assault Missile

Rhymer + PTL + Cluster Missile + Cluster Missile

Carnor Jax + Veteran Instincts

The idea: Fly Vader and Rhymer in a tight formation with Jax far off on a flank. Try to alpha Wedge. See if Jax can get a shot off. See what Vader's Homing Missile does. If Wedge is still up, fire a cluster missile from Rhymer at RB3.

Wedge should be dead from all that fire. He has nothing to hide behind (no Biggs). Next turn, Jax should soften up a Bwing. Then have Vader fire some rb2 shots at it and then pummel it with the final cluster missile. You should now be facing 2 bwings. At this point, its all about out manuevering him and tearing him apart with Jax. He will absolutely HOSE bwings (not as badly as ties). His Bs will be moving before you and firing afterwards. Always barrel roll out of shots, dont worry about focus unless you have clear shots without retaliation. The remaining Bwings should be ripped apart fast.

I have a feeling that the high PS alpha strike will become much more prevalent with the next few waves and the swarm of crap pilots will be dead.

I like this list.

I would shoot the cluster missiles at the B-wings, you maximize your advantage against their 1 agility. And Rhymer can shoot them at range 3 and they won't get their extra agility dice.

I took your list and made this one

Rhymer + Advanced Torps + Cluster Missiles

Darth Vader + Cluster Missiles + Swarm Tactics

Jonus + Squad Leader + Proton Bomb

Against 4 ships you should have them beat with PS.

All the ships are pretty good, none are easy to kill. Jonus is the least number of points, that might protect him from drawing to much fire.

It is an ordnance heavy list, but not an Alpha Strike List. It should really take advantage of the low agility of the B-wings.

I would actually spend my range 2 advanced torpedo against the X-wing (especially if its wedge or has R2D2)

Jonus gives Rhymer his action and on the 2nd turn of shooting Rhymer let's his torpedo go with both a focus and T, not to mention 2 re-rolls. Oh and at PS 9 (from Vaders PS 9) That is one hurt X-wing. You are almost guaranteed 5 hits. That gives you a little better than 1/3 chance of 1 shot-ing an X-wing.

2 Options IMO

Option 1

Try flying this list

Kath Scarlet (38)

Marksmen (3)

Rebel Captive (3)

Omnicron Pilot (21)

Vader (3)

Omnicron Pilot (21)

Senso Jammer (4)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Total: 100 pts.

I find this to be a pretty nasty build,

Only played it 2 or 3 times, but haven't lost with it yet, and seems to hold up very well, and I haven't lost a ship yet.

First off you have 30 hp which is pretty nice

That's a lot of dmg.

In one game with this build I had wedge with 2-3 stress tokens.

Now your opponent is trying to decide which to kill first.

Vader is sick. Free crit. Plus the shuttle has 3 attack dice.

Another shuttle with HLC which is going to sit back and hurt

Kath flying around stressing everyone out. Which makes it a lot easier for your shuttles to focus fire

Using their 0 action and cause all kind of collisions, Kath can have her way

If they go after Kath they get a stress token which will slow them down.

If they go after shuttles instead Kath just recks havoc.

Your main objective would be all focus fire on wedge.

Kill wedge.

With Kath, Vader on a shuttle, and another with HLC shouldn't be much of a problem.

Try it out if you haven't already. I can't see how this would fail.

Another list that would be fun just to try.

4 shuttles lol.

40 HP would be disgusting

Plus you still have 16 pts left for upgrades

Couple APL on couple

Vader on another

HLC on another

Use the power of Proton Bombs:

Jonus + SL

Scimitar + Clusters + Proton Bomb

Scimitar + Clusters + Proton Bomb

Scimitar + Assault Missile + Proton Bomb

That list needs to be taken down by a quality pilot Empire list. (IMHO)

Vader + Swarm Tactics + Assault Missile

Rhymer + PTL + Cluster Missile + Cluster Missile

Carnor Jax + Veteran Instincts

The idea: Fly Vader and Rhymer in a tight formation with Jax far off on a flank. Try to alpha Wedge. See if Jax can get a shot off. See what Vader's Homing Missile does. If Wedge is still up, fire a cluster missile from Rhymer at RB3.

Wedge should be dead from all that fire. He has nothing to hide behind (no Biggs). Next turn, Jax should soften up a Bwing. Then have Vader fire some rb2 shots at it and then pummel it with the final cluster missile. You should now be facing 2 bwings. At this point, its all about out manuevering him and tearing him apart with Jax. He will absolutely HOSE bwings (not as badly as ties). His Bs will be moving before you and firing afterwards. Always barrel roll out of shots, dont worry about focus unless you have clear shots without retaliation. The remaining Bwings should be ripped apart fast.

I have a feeling that the high PS alpha strike will become much more prevalent with the next few waves and the swarm of crap pilots will be dead.

I like this list.

I would shoot the cluster missiles at the B-wings, you maximize your advantage against their 1 agility. And Rhymer can shoot them at range 3 and they won't get their extra agility dice.

I took your list and made this one

Rhymer + Advanced Torps + Cluster Missiles

Darth Vader + Cluster Missiles + Swarm Tactics

Jonus + Squad Leader + Proton Bomb

Against 4 ships you should have them beat with PS.

All the ships are pretty good, none are easy to kill. Jonus is the least number of points, that might protect him from drawing to much fire.

It is an ordnance heavy list, but not an Alpha Strike List. It should really take advantage of the low agility of the B-wings.

I would actually spend my range 2 advanced torpedo against the X-wing (especially if its wedge or has R2D2)

Jonus gives Rhymer his action and on the 2nd turn of shooting Rhymer let's his torpedo go with both a focus and T, not to mention 2 re-rolls. Oh and at PS 9 (from Vaders PS 9) That is one hurt X-wing. You are almost guaranteed 5 hits. That gives you a little better than 1/3 chance of 1 shot-ing an X-wing.

I like the punch of this list but Rhymer can't benefit from SL on Jonus since he has a higher PS otherwise it'd be wicked

Jonus can't give his action to rhymer via squad leader because rhymer has higher pilot skill. Vader can take squad leader instead, then give Jonus draw their fire to protect rhymer or determination to protect himself and upgrade vader's missile to assault. Assault missiles are good against Bwings in formation, especially w/ jonus reroll, and if this a tournament some deterrent to tie swarms wouldn't hurt. Personally I would trade your 1 proton bomb for 2 seismic charges and free up another point, maybe give Jonus vet instincts and rhymer determination.

Yes thats a BAD list

Similar to Wedge + ST, Biggs, Blue, Blue

As an imperial player, I don't have a good answer ... even a swarm can easily be killed, if you don't manage to get biggs down fast.

3 Firesprays or 2 Firesprays + 1 Lambda (with various upgrades) would do well. You're going to likely kill a B-Wing each turn with focused fire (or come **** close).

In my experience, mini-swarms lose to 4 X/B lists because they can focus the 'center piece' down so fast. A traditional swarm, though, stands a good chance against X/B lists.

A 3-4 Interceptor List can do well as you can out dogfight the rebels. BUT... you can't joust, even for a turn. So if you're not comfortable getting the flank in on your opponent, then don't try it - because you'll lose horribly just going head to head.

B-wings like the close game. Use their dial against them. Pull them out of position, slip in behind them and let them have it! Rinse and repeat. Remember, your don't have to have a shot EVERY round. Set up your shots. My personal favorite B&X eating machine list is

Royal+PtL x3

Academy x2.

Use the Ties as blockers and the Interceptors to cut the Bs to ribbons.

The only things that come to mind:

higher PS- while difficult to kill wedge before be shoots, make sure he only gets 1 shot. Ensure Bwing 1 only gets 2.

No shuttle- Bwings love to see doomshuttle helpin them kill it and buzzsaw wasting gunner points against them.

I'm pretty sure the bwing has 1 too many shields or comes in at a point too cheap. They survive 12-14 dice far too often (14 dice from 4 ships means any combo of 7misses/Dodges leaves an alive bwing) Doubling or tripling up on them means you're going to survive to shoot one last time at least once a game and usually at 4dice with focus or TL...enough umph to one shot any imperial small or finish off any wounded imperial Big.

I'd probably go with a named tie swarm. I think you need #'s and PS to take on this list.

The only things that come to mind:

higher PS- while difficult to kill wedge before be shoots, make sure he only gets 1 shot. Ensure Bwing 1 only gets 2.

No shuttle- Bwings love to see doomshuttle helpin them kill it and buzzsaw wasting gunner points against them.

I'm pretty sure the bwing has 1 too many shields or comes in at a point too cheap. They survive 12-14 dice far too often (14 dice from 4 ships means any combo of 7misses/Dodges leaves an alive bwing) Doubling or tripling up on them means you're going to survive to shoot one last time at least once a game and usually at 4dice with focus or TL...enough umph to one shot any imperial small or finish off any wounded imperial Big.

I'd probably go with a named tie swarm. I think you need #'s and PS to take on this list.

Wouldn't doomshuttle tend to do quite well vs B-wings? The vader-crit goes under their shields, potentially crippling the craft.

Vader crit does not go under shields. Just proton bomb crits.

Ahhh.

My mistake. Was thinking it dealt a faceup damage card.

It could be done by a squad of 5 Avengers. But ... there are so many factors.

Recently I obliberated a Wedge, Ten and a Blue list with Jonus, Rhymer and a Gamma.

This was possible because of a bad move from wedge, allowing Rhymer to finish off the Blue with an APT and be killed by the Gamma's Clusters.

But if you have to face 3 B's and Wedge ... I fear you can't fit enough ammo to whatever 100 point bomber list to take 3 B-Wings and Wedge down ...

unless you take 3 Proton Bombs ... BUT there is no need for the B's to stay in a close formation. So taking 3 Proton Bombs my as well be a bad idea.

I took on pretty much that list in the last tourney and managed to beat it with:

Krassis w/ HLC, APL, Recon Specialist

Backstabber

3x Academy

was not an easy fight though but the asteroids seemed to be on my side