Tycho's ability is useful until you want to k-turn.

(Which is why I'll be running him with PTL and Daredevil soon.) And t'chnkcally if you keep him clear of stress being able to K-turn and then take an action is amazing too.

I proxied that the other day... it's like flying an interceptor with shields!

I'm sorry guys, but I have to call total BS here.

If the E-wing had Rexler's ability, we'd all be going ballistic right now over how broken the Rebels are because of YET ANOTHER awesome new ability. Seriously - stop and ask yourself, if this were on an E-wing with exactly the same offense, would you be saying "Well, yeah, it might be almost good, but since it needs a focus to work so it's really limited."

Pfft. Give me a break, because that doesn't even pass the smell test.

Edit: And just to be clear here, I still think the Imp Aces were underwhelming, I do think the new Rebels are universally awesome, the Defender certainly has a pretty bad dial, and Wave 4 is going to give plenty enough new options to the Rebels so the "Wave 4 will make it all awesome for the Imps" is a silly thing... But come on - if you can't acknowledge Rexler as good, you're so stuck in your own predetermined state of things that you're seriously losing perspective here.

That I can tell no one is saying his ability isn't good... my original assertion was that he certainly wasn't a top 5 imperial pilot and maybe not even top 10. Others have said his ability is limited, which it is. It would be pretty bonkers on an ewing: presumably better dial (or an R2 droid at least) to clear stress so PTL would be a real option, cheaper, multiple ways to pass focus, evade action...it would be better on an Ewing. What ship an ability is on makes a huge difference. Vader in an interceptor would pretty much become the best pilot in the game hands down. Backstabbers ability in a Ywing wouldn't do a whole lot suddenly. Rexlar's ability on a less maneuverable, more expensive, sturdier interceptor with no evade or boost action just isn't that impressive; not top 5, probably in the top 10.

Bwings cant carry crew members.

They will, once Rebel Aces swings around, next year or so.

Lots of things could happen between now and then. Seriously, Wave 4 as it currently stands looks like a far more robust release for the empire than the rebellion unless the E-wing's unrevealed pilots turn out to be absolutely amazing.

It's not that rebel ships are better than Imperial one, it's that they are much less reliant on luck/dice to survive and overall have more way to get 3/4 attack dice. Add to that the fact that the game encourage offense by giving more ways to affect the attack than the defense and the dice being slightly in favor of attack with 1 more hit.

Ultimately, you only need one shot to get an Interceptor or Tie Fighter down. 3 success on the attack vs 0 for the defender, or 1 success+a direct hit critical/minor explosion vs 0 success. Paying 25 pts for a ship that get blown up by one shot can seriously mess with your game, even more so if it happens two time in the same game. But, it can go the other way around, you can roll 3 evade result on your defense dice all night long and suddenly, your TIE become the best tank in the game.

Meanwhile, against a B-Wing, you need a minimum of 3 shots with 3 dice to get it down, there is no way you will lose it from the first shot. And then we add the shield that mitigate the luck even more by absorbing the first crits while the shieldless Imperial fighters have no choice but to get them. Again, you can go in a game without seeing any crits, or you can see them pop out once every two shots.

So that's the big difference and why I think we don't see a lot of variety from the tournament list. Only way to counter luck/bad luck is to accept the fact that it's part of the game and try to mitigate it by not being screwed once it hit you, aka swarm or dodging line of sight. Meanwhile, the rebels can predict much more the survivability of their ships even if his opponent rolls are on fire, even more so if he rolls cold.

So, while I prefer to play the imperials, I can see why there is less variety in tournament list. But I don't consider them shafted or anything, you just need to fly better, they are more maneuvrable than the rebels, just don,t go head-to-head with your opponent.

The crux of the perceived durability problem is that people are expecting the empire to be able joust. Jousting is bad. Stop being bad. If you want to joust play rebels then you can win jousts all day long. However if you dont win the joust you are going to be fighting an uphill battle vs your horrible horrible movement dials and lack of movement tricks.

Really tired of the "fly them better" argument and the "don't joust them" argument. I assure you I am flying them to near full capability. Unless you are flying against a strictly inferior opponent you cannot avoid the arcs if they don't have turrets, and if they do have turrets and are inferior pilots you still can't avoid their arcs. With the exception of completely new players and rebel players, who is jousting with interceptors?

You don't have to agree with the empire feeling like they are getting the short stick but don't assume that because we feel that way we're somehow inferior pilots.

His ability is similar to Kir Kanos... and we all know how well he has been butchered in the forums.

Not saying anything on anyone's player skill. But the envy of Rebels and the trust in Mathwing are blinding people to the very potent stuff that the Imperials are getting.

Funny scenario here involving how luck/bad Luck can mess with the Empire much more than the Rebellion.

You fly Jax and after moving, realize that by doing a Barrel Roll, you can get out of the line of sight of the B-Wing and get into range 1 of it, so he won't be able to use his focus in defense. But, by doing so, you get into range 3 of the far away A-Wing who has a line of sight. Being that you have Stealth Device, you will still roll 5 dice for defense. You take your shot and roll 4 success, 1 being a crit! The B-Wing roll no evade, so he's down to 3 HP+1 shield. Now, the A-Wing shoot and roll 1 hit+1Crit. You try to dodge and roll all blank! Take your crit card... ****! Direct hit! And he's out.

Was there an error here? Would you have been better to take the shot from the B-Wing from range 2 instead but take an evade action? That's still 3 dice versus 4+evade token. He gets 2 hits+1 crit and you roll blank and the same scenario can happen.

Now, make the same scenario, but with an A-Wing versus a Tie Fighter. Tie fighter roll 1 hit+1 crit, A-Wing roll blank, he's still out with 2 Hull. That't what I mean by the Empire being more reliant on luck than the rebel. If the dice are bad, there is not much you can do but deal with it. And yes, you need to maneuver better, but you can't stay out of sight all game long, unless your opponent is a bad player. Just one bad shot can throw the balance away.

But just so we are clear, I personally prefer to use the Empire, they have more style and character than the rebellion, and I love the element of luck that they bring, and there is nothing like having one fast ship against 3 bulky one and get them down one at a time. Dice doesn't just bring bad luck, rolling 4-5 defense dice, can also mean 4-5 success and the look of your opponent when you keep dodging their shots is priceless. 2 hits+2crits? Yeah no, I just rolled 3 success and look at that? an evade token? Guess I'll use it, it would be embarrassing not to.... ;P

Not saying anything on anyone's player skill. But the envy of Rebels and the trust in Mathwing are blinding people to the very potent stuff that the Imperials are getting.

That's the argument that keeps being used: if you don't see the value of these ships, you're clearly flying them wrong.

I actually don't agree with a lot of the "mathwing" stuff that get's slung around but I also understand it's limitations. Most of the time it predicts exactly what is expected but you can't apply it's predictions across the board. Not blind to this at all.

What is "potent" that the empire has received recently? Cloaking. Cloaking could be huge. We'll have to know just a little more to see how it goes. Defender? Looks sketchy, flys sketchy, looks like an sup'd up interceptor with 1 more hp, less maneuverability, no boost and evade for more points. New EPTs? They're for everyone and arguably better for interceptors and awings than defenders. Wingman... great for shuttles and black squads... again, great for everyone (ept z95s and awings especially).

So what potent thing has the EMPIRE received? Cloaking. But not all the info is out on it yet.

Munitions Failsafe should fix the issues with running bombers. You no longer have to worry about wasted points as long as you get your shot off before your ship blows up. That coupled with flechette torpedoes and ion pulse missiles for much cheaper ordinance makes running them alot more viable.

With Imperial Aces FFG was trying to nudge a popular that seemed to be just outside of tournament worthy(I personally don't agree with them not being tournament worthy but its the closest I could come to matching how many feel about the interceptor) into being a good alternative ship to running a swarm. Which I think they did. That being said with rebel aces they wanted to take the A-wing which everyone and their dog seems to think overcosted and that no one played even in casual games(again I am embellishing and have played and played agaisnt A wings) and turn it into a competitive ship. Something that I think they did better then with the interceptor but with the interceptor they just wanted a slight nudge in viability where as with the A-wing they wanted a good jump in use.

The Firespray and shuttle are great ships. It takes some time to get use to the large base ships and the flying the shuttle in particular but they are good ships.

I have never flown the advanced so I will just toe the line of it is overcosted/ in need of more pilots.

I actually hate flying the tie swarm it doesn't fit my play style and the dice are always cold when I do, but I can't argue with others results with it.

I can't wait to play the phantom. I have a few different list ideas already for it and it looks to be fun.

With the defender I still think its over costed not by much but I blame that on the dial, and that I am comparing it to the E-wing for its cost. I think we are paying too much for the white k turn, I realize its a ship that is meant to get behind its opponent and blow them to bits. Out maneuver being in the same box points that out. I just don't see it as being worth the cost. That said I will play with Rexler I like the idea of giving him an ion cannon. The defender is a ship that to me is really only meant to be flown with a mini swarm. You can't really fly 3 unless they are all very lightly upgraded and 2 ship lists are a bad idea.

The empire does have plenty of option atleast in the pipeline that don't consist of howl+swarm. Over all are imperials perfectly balanced with rebels? I don't think so I believe that rebels have a slight edge but that is basically rebel synergy and the versatility of astromechs.

what HE said.

The crux of the perceived durability problem is that people are expecting the empire to be able joust. Jousting is bad. Stop being bad. If you want to joust play rebels then you can win jousts all day long. However if you dont win the joust you are going to be fighting an uphill battle vs your horrible horrible movement dials and lack of movement tricks.

Yes, my problem with Interceptors is that I try to joust against Falcons instead of staying outside of the firing arc the way I should.

Wait... what?

If your only suggestion to the community is "Everyone but me just doesn't know how to fly" you're demonstrating nothing but your own ignorance.

Wingman is great for everyone, sure. But who are you going to put it on? Can't put it on the shuttles. Only the 2 unique pilots for the Z-95 can take it, making Blount 19 pts or Cracken 21. Even with the Refit, you are looking at 19 for a Green Squadron Pilot. Compared to the 16 pts for a simple Black Squadron pilot. The Black Squadron Pilot will be the most efficient use for Wingman, especially since you might want to use other talents on Blount or Cracken.

Yes, the A-wing is getting a pretty dramatic boost. But that does not diminish what the Imperials are getting. Outmaneuver is far, far better on a TIE than an X-wing. Predator is universal, sure. But again, the after effects of Predator on the meta is going to help the Imperials. The Ion Missiles and Flechette Torpedoes add an extreme control element to Bombers, especially when you can take them all for 10 pts. All of this is very good stuff.

But no. Because the X-wing, A-wing, and B-wing get more get more blatant pilots that aren't dependent on maneuvering (seriously, Lorrir gets way, way too much hate), the Imperials are getting the shaft. Just ignore the white k-turn of the defender, along with it's seriously buffed stats. Whoa to those who play Imperials. They get nothing good compared to the Rebels. It is getting really, really annoying that you can't see how good some of this stuff is, or how well Imperials are actually doing at the moment.

I hope the PS3 Defender will get a EPT for the Wingman upgrade ... so Rexler could equip PTL...

im starting up a spin-off (but related topic thread) about competitive imperial squads that are NOT swarms. Do they exist?

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/103602-can-you-list-at-least-3-competitive-imperial-squads-that-are-not-swarms/

Jump into the new thread and leave a comment if u can.

Wingman is great for everyone, sure. But who are you going to put it on? Can't put it on the shuttles. Only the 2 unique pilots for the Z-95 can take it, making Blount 19 pts or Cracken 21. Even with the Refit, you are looking at 19 for a Green Squadron Pilot. Compared to the 16 pts for a simple Black Squadron pilot. The Black Squadron Pilot will be the most efficient use for Wingman, especially since you might want to use other talents on Blount or Cracken.

Yes, the A-wing is getting a pretty dramatic boost. But that does not diminish what the Imperials are getting. Outmaneuver is far, far better on a TIE than an X-wing. Predator is universal, sure. But again, the after effects of Predator on the meta is going to help the Imperials. The Ion Missiles and Flechette Torpedoes add an extreme control element to Bombers, especially when you can take them all for 10 pts. All of this is very good stuff.

But no. Because the X-wing, A-wing, and B-wing get more get more blatant pilots that aren't dependent on maneuvering (seriously, Lorrir gets way, way too much hate), the Imperials are getting the shaft. Just ignore the white k-turn of the defender, along with it's seriously buffed stats. Whoa to those who play Imperials. They get nothing good compared to the Rebels. It is getting really, really annoying that you can't see how good some of this stuff is, or how well Imperials are actually doing at the moment.

I was going to like this first paragraph... but got to the 2nd and third... you get 1/2 a like for this!

Munitions Failsafe should fix the issues with running bombers. You no longer have to worry about wasted points as long as you get your shot off before your ship blows up. That coupled with flechette torpedoes and ion pulse missiles for much cheaper ordinance makes running them alot more viable.

Not all of them, though most issues are related to the relative weakness of ordnance itself (requiring a target lock, rarely having tokens to buff that ordnance, ridiculous cost for a risky return) that get more noticeable on a bomber since it's build for ordnance and is a bellow average craft without it.

A good title could fix this, but that'd mean waiting for another Imperial Aces-type set.

Munitions Failsafe should fix the issues with running bombers. You no longer have to worry about wasted points as long as you get your shot off before your ship blows up. That coupled with flechette torpedoes and ion pulse missiles for much cheaper ordinance makes running them alot more viable.

Not all of them, though most issues are related to the relative weakness of ordnance itself (requiring a target lock, rarely having tokens to buff that ordnance, ridiculous cost for a risky return) that get more noticeable on a bomber since it's build for ordnance and is a bellow average craft without it.

A good title could fix this, but that'd mean waiting for another Imperial Aces-type set.

Running Jonus with a bomber squad mitigates needing tokens to buff the ordinance. I think the weakness associated with ordinance in general was that it was a slight buff to attack but you weren't guaranteed a hit and then it was a waste of point? munitions failsafe guarantees you keep the ordinance until you hit or blow up. Plus will flechette's and ion pulses you can now run those same bombers with a more control oriented focus. I realize with APT you want a TL and a focus but really the only pilot I see ever reliably pulling off APT is Rhymer.

Munitions Failsafe is good, but its synergy is limited to the ordnance that triggers a secondary effect on a hit, like Assault or Ion Pulse Missiles. On other missiles and torpedoes, getting as many hits as possible is the end-goal, but just one hit is enough to make the missile flip. Which is... quite a loss when you've paid 4 to 6 points for them.

Personally, Munitions Failsafe allows you to be a bit more aggressive with your missiles or torpedoes. Now, you aren't wasting your missile if you attack without TL and focus. And that is really big for those that have a hit effect, like the Assault or Ion Pulse. Biggs is a pain against missiles, sure. But how good is his effect if ships he's protecting continually get splash damage.

Personally, Munitions Failsafe allows you to be a bit more aggressive with your missiles or torpedoes. Now, you aren't wasting your missile if you attack without TL and focus. And that is really big for those that have a hit effect, like the Assault or Ion Pulse.

I don't really agree with this, personally. This is like saying you can continually attack without focus - yes, you can do it, but the fact that you can repeat a bad attack next turn doesn't change the fact that it's still a bad attack.

Munitions Failsafe, if you include it, should be a defense against funky dice, not an excuse to waste your attacks.

Personally, the main reason I'm going to include Munitions Failsafe is to make sure that my assault missiles will be able to use their secondary effect. Three Assault Missiles have the possibility to utterly devastate a swarm or any other tight formation flyers, but they have to hit to do so. Munitions Failsafe is the key to getting that.

Funny scenario here involving how luck/bad Luck can mess with the Empire much more than the Rebellion.

You fly Jax and after moving, realize that by doing a Barrel Roll, you can get out of the line of sight of the B-Wing and get into range 1 of it, so he won't be able to use his focus in defense. But, by doing so, you get into range 3 of the far away A-Wing who has a line of sight. Being that you have Stealth Device, you will still roll 5 dice for defense. You take your shot and roll 4 success, 1 being a crit! The B-Wing roll no evade, so he's down to 3 HP+1 shield. Now, the A-Wing shoot and roll 1 hit+1Crit. You try to dodge and roll all blank! Take your crit card... ****! Direct hit! And he's out.

Was there an error here? Would you have been better to take the shot from the B-Wing from range 2 instead but take an evade action? That's still 3 dice versus 4+evade token. He gets 2 hits+1 crit and you roll blank and the same scenario can happen.

Now, make the same scenario, but with an A-Wing versus a Tie Fighter. Tie fighter roll 1 hit+1 crit, A-Wing roll blank, he's still out with 2 Hull. That't what I mean by the Empire being more reliant on luck than the rebel. If the dice are bad, there is not much you can do but deal with it. And yes, you need to maneuver better, but you can't stay out of sight all game long, unless your opponent is a bad player. Just one bad shot can throw the balance away.

But just so we are clear, I personally prefer to use the Empire, they have more style and character than the rebellion, and I love the element of luck that they bring, and there is nothing like having one fast ship against 3 bulky one and get them down one at a time. Dice doesn't just bring bad luck, rolling 4-5 defense dice, can also mean 4-5 success and the look of your opponent when you keep dodging their shots is priceless. 2 hits+2crits? Yeah no, I just rolled 3 success and look at that? an evade token? Guess I'll use it, it would be embarrassing not to.... ;P

i just had to add this. Yesterday i played 2 games with my Squint list (RG+Hull+PTL x3, and Backstabber). 1st game Backstabber gets shot from R2 by Luke who had a TL, Luke gets 3 hits, i roll 3 blanks Backstabber dies before i have even shot anything. 2nd game Garven shoots at Backstabber at R3 with TL and Focus(i hate Vander) gets 3 hits, i roll 4 blanks. so 2 games in a row that BS dies to the first shot of the game, thats 7 green dice, what i wouldn't give for an action to reroll defence dice.

One of the big issues with FF is that they seem to put a LOT of value into "good" dials.

That hits the Imperials because they have "better" dials than the Rebels.

The ONE Rebel ship which was hit by this effect (the A-Wing) has just been "fixed" because of it, yet the Imperials continue to get releases (see the Defender) which are paying a lot of points for a "good" dial (and in the case of the Defender it's arguable that it's even a good dial!).

That on top of the Rebels=Cheap Shields issue (no matter your opinion of crits) makes for most of the Imperial feeling of being left behind.

I'll note that the "super B-Wing" getting made even BETTER in Rebel Aces while Imperial Aces barely improved the Interceptor is another issue.

In case of the Defender, it's more the 3/3/3/3 statline they're paying for, methinks.

One of the big issues with FF is that they seem to put a LOT of value into "good" dials.

That hits the Imperials because they have "better" dials than the Rebels.

The ONE Rebel ship which was hit by this effect (the A-Wing) has just been "fixed" because of it…

Do you have any evidence that's why the A-wing was fixed--that is, that it was initially overcosted due to the dial, rather than due to (e.g.) overvaluing the missile slot and underestimating the weakness of 2 Attack?

I'll note that the "super B-Wing" getting made even BETTER in Rebel Aces while Imperial Aces barely improved the Interceptor is another issue.

B-wings got additional options: two named pilots and a title with an unknown cost. More options isn't necessarily the same thing as "even BETTER".

B-wings got additional options: two named pilots and a title with an unknown cost. More options isn't necessarily the same thing as "even BETTER".

Ace titles have so far all been free though, so there's a very good chance the B-wing's crew title will be free as well.

B-wings got additional options: two named pilots and a title with an unknown cost. More options isn't necessarily the same thing as "even BETTER".

Ace titles have so far all been free though, so there's a very good chance the B-wing's crew title will be free as well.

The cost of the Royal tie is its restriction to PS 4 or better. Similarly the 'cost' of the dual EPT A-wing is the restriction to GSP or better A-wings. Using that logic if the B-wing title is free there would be some sort of restriction to it. So I doubt we will see 22 pt blues carting around crew members.

More than likely it will be restricted to Daggers or better, so the 'cost' of the upgrade is around 2 points depending on how you value +2 PS.

One of the big issues with FF is that they seem to put a LOT of value into "good" dials.

That hits the Imperials because they have "better" dials than the Rebels.

The ONE Rebel ship which was hit by this effect (the A-Wing) has just been "fixed" because of it…

Do you have any evidence that's why the A-wing was fixed--that is, that it was initially overcosted due to the dial, rather than due to (e.g.) overvaluing the missile slot and underestimating the weakness of 2 Attack?

I'll note that the "super B-Wing" getting made even BETTER in Rebel Aces while Imperial Aces barely improved the Interceptor is another issue.

B-wings got additional options: two named pilots and a title with an unknown cost. More options isn't necessarily the same thing as "even BETTER".

Comparing the costing of the A-Wing to the Interceptor, Defender and other TIE options paying for their dial and there is a fairly clear pattern, but it's not certain, still I think it's a fair argument.

And if you can't see that a pilot who ditches stress as an attack mod and the ability to add crew to an already powerful ship is "even better" then you are incapable of having a meaningful discussion.

I really dislike the thought of deadeye + APT + recon bwings in the future. That's just not going to be fun to play against and I didn't think muti bwing could get much less fun to play against.