How many turns did you get in over the game time?(And how long was the time limit. What did things look like at the end. We can't make a very informed decision without those, but I would trust your intuition.

I would agree that additional information is needed before you call him "stalling". Some people play at a slower pace, and some people play at lightning pace. If he always takes 3-4 minutes (which is a long time, imo) then that's his pace of play, and you could ask him to pick up the pace. If you notice he's doing it every time he has the point advantage, then I would say he's stalling.

I don't think it should've rattled you to the point where you're making "uncharacteristic" moves. That's like putting a poker player on tilt.

speaking with other players after the tournament, they told me he was quick with his turns

Sounds like a sore loser. Not everyone is at the same levels of 'skill'. Some people take longer than others and think about their moves, some people are less experienced and need more time to plan. I have a sinking suspicious there's some embelishment going on in the original post.

But if he has played this player in the past, and his turns usually went by quicker than 3-4 minutes after his opponent finished placing a roughly equal number of dials, then that seems like a deliberate stalling tactic. I mean, we don't have nearly enough information, but if this is unusual then it is a warning flag. Especially if those "mistakes" only happened after the OP lost a ship and if it didn't continue into the rest of that guys games (Sometimes people just have a bad day or fall out of the "zone" resulting in mistakes or slow down, but if that only lasted from when he had an edge to when the game ended it's suspect).

thats exactly how it went, the first 2-3 turns were dials, move, shoot if we could, then after 3 i lost my first ship and time slowed down.

I'm not covering for anybody. I just don't approve of calling enforcing the rules Toxic. I'm a forgiving person myself, but I would hate to have someone not call me out if they thought I was cheating. If I were this guys opponent I'ld have wanted those suspicions aired because even if I don't know I'm slow playing I should be called out for playing slow.(Although I am not the type to deliberate moves often.)

Fact is, his message is correct. You suspect cheating you call the TO and they decide if something is amiss.

Coddling your opponent is disrespectful to them. Not enforcing the rules is toxic to your tournament community if it's being used exploitatively.

WonderWAAAGH and i have had our differences in the past, but i do have to agree with his point here, he was not sugesting i be an a-hole, he was just saying i should have gone to the TO. maybe the TO would have agreed with me, maybe not.

the group at this store is a really good bunch of guys and i didnt want to be a stick in the mud, as they play there all the time and i just go up for the tournaments because i live so far away.

i have since talked to the TO about this and he has had complaints from others about this individuals play style. he has suggested a possible death clock for tournaments.

have any of you been in a tournament with a death clock?

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

I don't know how a death clock would work. If you exceed time in Magic you go into additional turns, where each player basically gets 3 more turns. If nobody wins by the end of the final turn, the game is a draw. I don't think there's a good way to translate that into a miniatures game, unfortunately.

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Money? Prizes?

LOL..... A $10 miniature spaceship. WOOO serious business!

Yes, I would judge you a douchebag if you withheld advice in any setting. I might not say so, because it's really not a big deal - but I would keep it in mind.

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Money? Prizes?

LOL..... A $10 miniature spaceship. WOOO serious business!

Yes, I would judge you a douchebag if you withheld advice in any setting. I might not say so, because it's really not a big deal - but I would keep it in mind.

That's too bad. The spirit of the game is to pit my skill against yours, and using all of the abilities available to you is part of that skill. Why should it be my responsibility to play your side of the board for you? I mean, if the act of competing wasn't important in and of itself, I could just stay at home and play by myself.

the TO was saying death clock would mean if your time ran out before the end of game you lose.

so that would be harsh, and he is afraid it would lead to unsportsman like games and that the younger players would not likely come to play, so in that thought, i think i will just call the guy out on it next time and only involve the TO if i need to.

i think any reasonable person with not feel like i was being a prick for saying something. and if he takes issue with it, i will see what kind of guy he really is.

and on a side note, i have been the only person to beat this particular guy in the 3 tournaments i have been to and we both used the same list each time. the pace of that game was fast, the first game we played the game was like a lightning round, i had soontir cover the entire board at least twice, it was a highly energetic dog fight that i had no problem losing cause it was fun as hell.

I can imagine this being extremely frustrating.

Basically all of the games I have played so far are very casual games: matches usually take place at my house or a friends house, and there is normally some form of snackage and NOS available.

But even in those friendly games when someone starts taking forever to make up their mind, it can suck the fun out of it, and we aren't even playing with any kind of clock.

However, having to wait longer doesn't normally cause the rest of us to make mistakes. If anything, it makes me have to take a few extra seconds to remember what I was planning to do before the delay, but that's about it.

*Edit* It appears...

That I was commenting in the wrong thread...

I thought this thread was about some guy taking forever to be done with his dials.

But apparently I was wrong.

Carry on.

The spirit of the game is to have fun in a friendly environment....it's pretty obvious we're being baited at this point.

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Money? Prizes?

LOL..... A $10 miniature spaceship. WOOO serious business!

Yes, I would judge you a douchebag if you withheld advice in any setting. I might not say so, because it's really not a big deal - but I would keep it in mind.

That's too bad. The spirit of the game is to pit my skill against yours, and using all of the abilities available to you is part of that skill. Why should it be my responsibility to play your side of the board for you? I mean, if the act of competing wasn't important in and of itself, I could just stay at home and play by myself.

The spirit of the game is to play the best match possible, against the best available opposition, and thus have a good time.

It is trivial and boring to beat someone who is playing sub-optimally.

If you want to look at it from a game-theory perspective, it is always in your best interest to help your opponent - because playing a great match is always going to be worth more than chalking up an easy win and walking away with some trivial prize.

Certainly making new friends is worth more than any prize you'll ever see offered at an X-wing tournament.........

It sounds like a bit of sore loser, why delay to cause yourself a modified win? He may have stalled, hard to say on what we were given.

BUT you are never forced by your opponent to take risky decisions, you did that all on your own.

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Money? Prizes?

LOL..... A $10 miniature spaceship. WOOO serious business!

Yes, I would judge you a douchebag if you withheld advice in any setting. I might not say so, because it's really not a big deal - but I would keep it in mind.

That's too bad. The spirit of the game is to pit my skill against yours, and using all of the abilities available to you is part of that skill. Why should it be my responsibility to play your side of the board for you? I mean, if the act of competing wasn't important in and of itself, I could just stay at home and play by myself.

The spirit of the game is to play the best match possible, against the best available opposition, and thus have a good time.

It is trivial and boring to beat someone who is playing sub-optimally.

If you want to look at it from a game-theory perspective, it is always in your best interest to help your opponent - because playing a great match is always going to be worth more than chalking up an easy win and walking away with some trivial prize.

Certainly making new friends is worth more than any prize you'll ever see offered at an X-wing tournament.........

So winning and making friends are mutually exclusive? I don't know about you, but I have no problem doing both. Maybe I'm just asking questions to the wrong people, since you don't seem to have any kind of tournament mentality whatsoever. That's not a jab, just an observation. If I hadn't already made it clear, I play a lot of Magic too, so I'm used to other players who prioritize winning as well. That's kind of what gaming is about for a lot of people. And the last time I checked, X-Wing is also a game, one with a growing competitive scene.

It sounds like a bit of sore loser, why delay to cause yourself a modified win? He may have stalled, hard to say on what we were given.

BUT you are never forced by your opponent to take risky decisions, you did that all on your own.

Ok. So if you were down in points, and the game turns started getting longer and longer and you knew you needed to catch up to win, you wouldnt try to optimize your attack over defense to try and score more points? Knowing that you are leaving yourself exposed, all because when you could have easily played 2 turns in the time its been taking to play 1?

What would you have done? Continue to play as normal knowing there is no way n hell you could inflict enough damage in the ti,e remaining?

6-7 rounds is 10 minutes a round. I'd call that slow play, but not by much. It's a round lost, maybe 2.

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Money? Prizes?

LOL..... A $10 miniature spaceship. WOOO serious business!

Yes, I would judge you a douchebag if you withheld advice in any setting. I might not say so, because it's really not a big deal - but I would keep it in mind.

That's too bad. The spirit of the game is to pit my skill against yours, and using all of the abilities available to you is part of that skill. Why should it be my responsibility to play your side of the board for you? I mean, if the act of competing wasn't important in and of itself, I could just stay at home and play by myself.

The spirit of the game is to play the best match possible, against the best available opposition, and thus have a good time.

It is trivial and boring to beat someone who is playing sub-optimally.

If you want to look at it from a game-theory perspective, it is always in your best interest to help your opponent - because playing a great match is always going to be worth more than chalking up an easy win and walking away with some trivial prize.

Certainly making new friends is worth more than any prize you'll ever see offered at an X-wing tournament.........

So winning and making friends are mutually exclusive? I don't know about you, but I have no problem doing both. Maybe I'm just asking questions to the wrong people, since you don't seem to have any kind of tournament mentality whatsoever. That's not a jab, just an observation. If I hadn't already made it clear, I play a lot of Magic too, so I'm used to other players who prioritize winning as well. That's kind of what gaming is about for a lot of people. And the last time I checked, X-Wing is also a game, one with a growing competitive scene.

No offense, but are you a teenager?

If your net income is such that any conceivable tournament prize is more important to you than the quality of the recreational time you spent winning it, you need to re-examine your priorities. That's not a jab, just an observation.

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Money? Prizes?

LOL..... A $10 miniature spaceship. WOOO serious business!

Yes, I would judge you a douchebag if you withheld advice in any setting. I might not say so, because it's really not a big deal - but I would keep it in mind.

That's too bad. The spirit of the game is to pit my skill against yours, and using all of the abilities available to you is part of that skill. Why should it be my responsibility to play your side of the board for you? I mean, if the act of competing wasn't important in and of itself, I could just stay at home and play by myself.

The spirit of the game is to play the best match possible, against the best available opposition, and thus have a good time.

It is trivial and boring to beat someone who is playing sub-optimally.

If you want to look at it from a game-theory perspective, it is always in your best interest to help your opponent - because playing a great match is always going to be worth more than chalking up an easy win and walking away with some trivial prize.

Certainly making new friends is worth more than any prize you'll ever see offered at an X-wing tournament.........

So winning and making friends are mutually exclusive? I don't know about you, but I have no problem doing both. Maybe I'm just asking questions to the wrong people, since you don't seem to have any kind of tournament mentality whatsoever. That's not a jab, just an observation. If I hadn't already made it clear, I play a lot of Magic too, so I'm used to other players who prioritize winning as well. That's kind of what gaming is about for a lot of people. And the last time I checked, X-Wing is also a game, one with a growing competitive scene.

No offense, but are you a teenager?

If your net income is such that any conceivable tournament prize is more important to you than the quality of the recreational time you spent winning it, you need to re-examine your priorities. That's not a jab, just an observation.

I've wondered the same thing, I have a feeling he's a nightmare to game with.

Teen, Toxic, or Troll, take your pick I guess.

No, I'm not a teenager, and you still seem to be missing the point. If I were to accuse somebody of acting immature, it might be someone who feels the need to sling pejoratives at other players simply because they don't see eye to eye with their play style. The word "douchebag" comes to mind. That's the sort of person I'd think was a teenager, but what do I know? I'm only a college educated arms forces veteran.

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Money? Prizes?

LOL..... A $10 miniature spaceship. WOOO serious business!

Yes, I would judge you a douchebag if you withheld advice in any setting. I might not say so, because it's really not a big deal - but I would keep it in mind.

That's too bad. The spirit of the game is to pit my skill against yours, and using all of the abilities available to you is part of that skill. Why should it be my responsibility to play your side of the board for you? I mean, if the act of competing wasn't important in and of itself, I could just stay at home and play by myself.

The spirit of the game is to play the best match possible, against the best available opposition, and thus have a good time.

It is trivial and boring to beat someone who is playing sub-optimally.

If you want to look at it from a game-theory perspective, it is always in your best interest to help your opponent - because playing a great match is always going to be worth more than chalking up an easy win and walking away with some trivial prize.

Certainly making new friends is worth more than any prize you'll ever see offered at an X-wing tournament.........

So winning and making friends are mutually exclusive? I don't know about you, but I have no problem doing both. Maybe I'm just asking questions to the wrong people, since you don't seem to have any kind of tournament mentality whatsoever. That's not a jab, just an observation. If I hadn't already made it clear, I play a lot of Magic too, so I'm used to other players who prioritize winning as well. That's kind of what gaming is about for a lot of people. And the last time I checked, X-Wing is also a game, one with a growing competitive scene.

No offense, but are you a teenager?

If your net income is such that any conceivable tournament prize is more important to you than the quality of the recreational time you spent winning it, you need to re-examine your priorities. That's not a jab, just an observation.

I've wondered the same thing, I have a feeling he's a nightmare to game with.

Teen, Toxic, or Troll, take your pick I guess.

I feel more like he's throwing up a Straw Man.

Arguing a viewpoint he doesn't necessarily believe, knows to be silly, etc - for the sake of having it's silliness publicly demonstrated.

There's also the internet factor. I've never met anyone who was actually capable of being a **** while playing X-wing. It brings out the best in people :-)

No, I'm not a teenager, and you still seem to be missing the point.

Certainly not. The point you are trying to make is that Winning Is Important.

Which, applied to X-wing Miniatures Game, is wrong. Objectively.

Here's a question for you guys, since being nice appears to be a sticking point. You've made it deep in a tournament, and your opponent keeps forgetting about his abilities. Maybe his Firespray has Recon Specialist, but he's taking only one focus. Maybe for some absurd reason he isn't using Gunner after Han misses. Do you remind him, or do you let him try to figure it out for himself?

I remind him.

A win doesn't mean anything if it was due to my opponent's negligence rather than my own cunning.

This is a tabletop miniatures game... if you want to be a ruthless "MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS RAWR" douchebag, go play the stock market or something.

So if there's money or prizes on the line, say maybe an early Wave 4 ship, do you still think it would make you a "douchebag" to let your opponent make mistakes? At the risk of making a slippery slope argument, where exactly do you draw that line? When I'm playing with friends, sometimes I'll remind them that a barrel roll would be a really good idea, parking his ship right behind me at range 1 instead of being in my line of fire. Would I be a douchebag to withhold that advice at a tournament setting?

Money? Prizes?

LOL..... A $10 miniature spaceship. WOOO serious business!

Yes, I would judge you a douchebag if you withheld advice in any setting. I might not say so, because it's really not a big deal - but I would keep it in mind.

That's too bad. The spirit of the game is to pit my skill against yours, and using all of the abilities available to you is part of that skill. Why should it be my responsibility to play your side of the board for you? I mean, if the act of competing wasn't important in and of itself, I could just stay at home and play by myself.

The spirit of the game is to play the best match possible, against the best available opposition, and thus have a good time.

It is trivial and boring to beat someone who is playing sub-optimally.

If you want to look at it from a game-theory perspective, it is always in your best interest to help your opponent - because playing a great match is always going to be worth more than chalking up an easy win and walking away with some trivial prize.

Certainly making new friends is worth more than any prize you'll ever see offered at an X-wing tournament.........

So winning and making friends are mutually exclusive? I don't know about you, but I have no problem doing both. Maybe I'm just asking questions to the wrong people, since you don't seem to have any kind of tournament mentality whatsoever. That's not a jab, just an observation. If I hadn't already made it clear, I play a lot of Magic too, so I'm used to other players who prioritize winning as well. That's kind of what gaming is about for a lot of people. And the last time I checked, X-Wing is also a game, one with a growing competitive scene.

No offense, but are you a teenager?

If your net income is such that any conceivable tournament prize is more important to you than the quality of the recreational time you spent winning it, you need to re-examine your priorities. That's not a jab, just an observation.

The only thing that's wrong is believing only your own opinion matters. I asked a question with plenty of room for interpretation, and you gave me a very narrow definition of right and wrong. Again, there are plenty of people out there who would disagree with you, and I can tell you that in all confidence out of personal experience.

The only thing that's wrong is believing only your own opinion matters. I asked a question with plenty of room for interpretation, and you gave me a very narrow definition of right and wrong. Again, there are plenty of people out there who would disagree with you, and I can tell you that in all confidence out of personal experience.

Nope.

If having a plastic toy a month sooner than everyone else even remotely scales into your system of values, I... I just don't even....

Had to deal with it myself....but it doesn't bother me as bad as a TO that allows someone with 1.....1 copy of a HLC to have it on 2 B-Wing and then goes on to win the pay to play tourney! Especially when we are told we are going by FFG's tourney FAQ!

Getting things early adds intrinsic value. So does winning things. It creates a story around the item. It makes it special. If you don't understand that you're missing something else entirely. I can tell you every book I've ever picked up before the release date. And what Bookstore I got it at.