It sounds like the PCs covered their tracks pretty well, and left no loose ends to be tracked back to them. So, any 'punishment' would be GM fiat- which I don't support. However...

If you are a devious GM, you could learn from this incident. Let the PCs feel confident in their ability to get away with murder, then set up a similar situation a few sessions later- only this time, the object of their wrath is- unknown to them- under surveillance by a mysterious third party...

It depends on how good you want the forensic team that the Arbites have to be. It depends if the assassain wears gloves, did the lodge have a survalence system? Does the tech priest record everything he says? Did people hear the man's opinion of the tech priest?

They're on Dusk, so the Dusk Hag is there. She could simply see it in the players eyes and see if they're willing to pay the price to truly get away with the act.

Thanks for the input guys. Very much appreciated. Maybe I just scare them a little by the appearing Commissar (and a few questions by him) once they return to town, but nothing more...

It sounds like the PCs covered their tracks pretty well, and left no loose ends to be tracked back to them. So, any 'punishment' would be GM fiat- which I don't support. However...

If you are a devious GM, you could learn from this incident. Let the PCs feel confident in their ability to get away with murder, then set up a similar situation a few sessions later- only this time, the object of their wrath is- unknown to them- under surveillance by a mysterious third party...

Of course I am a devious GM. Who is not?

Well, after the killings they drove the Colonel's truck right into town and left it there. And a couple of people had seen them leaving town with the Colonel before they ventured to his lodge. So, a few tracks were left.

It depends on how good you want the forensic team that the Arbites have to be. It depends if the assassain wears gloves, did the lodge have a survalence system? Does the tech priest record everything he says? Did people hear the man's opinion of the tech priest?

They're on Dusk, so the Dusk Hag is there. She could simply see it in the players eyes and see if they're willing to pay the price to truly get away with the act.

There is no forensic team around. It is just a lone Arbitrator (his formal rank is even Marshal) within this town and a handfull (about 5) at the far-away space-port and (capital-)city.

For real? He had a man killed for being rude? I expect corruption points at the very least. And he let a completely innocent man get killed as the culprit when he knew that he was not?

What if the Colonel had valuable information? What if he could have helped them? Didn’t the player/character consider this?

This is not only inhuman, it is counteractive to the work of an acolyte. If the inquisitor finds out he/she will probably think long and hard about having an agent who clearly doesn’t understand the concept of consequences or the value of human life. (And maybe consider if the problem with an easily manipulated assassin, but that was maybe something already known).

Maybe he’ll get away with this, but I’m guessing this might be something reoccurring since he committed this act quite deliberately. As a rule, if my players act crazy then people will treat them as if they were crazy. Assassinating someone for being disrespectful is not the act of a sane person. If he keeps it up, he’s bound to get noticed. Have people respond to his actions accordingly.

Since this is Dusk, and sort of a daemonic playground, his actions might even attract some “unwanted interest”.

So the Arbite doesn't have a team, he should at least have a basic background in some forensic analysis and a small kit if he's managing even a small town. You don't have to make him inept just because he's one guy. If there was a thought of foul play then he'd investigate and if necessary he'd call in help.

For real? He had a man killed for being rude? I expect corruption points at the very least.

Nah, corruption is for dabbling with sorcery or being exposed to the twisting influence of the Warp. Daemons, rifts in the curtain between worlds, that kind of stuff. The supernatural, truly weird.

Being an evil **** is part of human nature, unfortunately. Killing people for being rude? The Samurai would kill a man for looking at him funny or not bowing low enough. There is a story of a Viking Jarls son who killed a slave because "he was places conveniently for a stroke" (with the sword, that is).

There is a story of a Viking Jarls son who killed a slave because "he was places conveniently for a stroke" (with the sword, that is).

IIRC it would've had to have been a freeman, as he was made and outlaw for that stroke.

For real? He had a man killed for being rude? I expect corruption points at the very least. And he let a completely innocent man get killed as the culprit when he knew that he was not?

What if the Colonel had valuable information? What if he could have helped them? Didn’t the player/character consider this?

This is not only inhuman, it is counteractive to the work of an acolyte. If the inquisitor finds out he/she will probably think long and hard about having an agent who clearly doesn’t understand the concept of consequences or the value of human life. (And maybe consider if the problem with an easily manipulated assassin, but that was maybe something already known).

Maybe he’ll get away with this, but I’m guessing this might be something reoccurring since he committed this act quite deliberately. As a rule, if my players act crazy then people will treat them as if they were crazy. Assassinating someone for being disrespectful is not the act of a sane person. If he keeps it up, he’s bound to get noticed. Have people respond to his actions accordingly.

Since this is Dusk, and sort of a daemonic playground, his actions might even attract some “unwanted interest”.

As Lord Nitpicker argued: I don't see this as inhuman behaviour at all. It's not the kind of behaviour I would encourage in my colleagues, friends or neighbours, but unfortunately it's all too human. That said, I'm not quite sure if I agree with Nitpicker about the corruption. Killing friendlies isn't something that is encouraged in the Inquisition as far as I'm aware.

@Lord Nitpicker: Would you assign corruption points to your acolytes if they murdered a rival (puritan) inquisitor? This is the same, but only a much milder version.

Thanks for the input guys. Very much appreciated. Maybe I just scare them a little by the appearing Commissar (and a few questions by him) once they return to town, but nothing more...

It sounds like the PCs covered their tracks pretty well, and left no loose ends to be tracked back to them. So, any 'punishment' would be GM fiat- which I don't support. However...

If you are a devious GM, you could learn from this incident. Let the PCs feel confident in their ability to get away with murder, then set up a similar situation a few sessions later- only this time, the object of their wrath is- unknown to them- under surveillance by a mysterious third party...

Of course I am a devious GM. Who is not?

Well, after the killings they drove the Colonel's truck right into town and left it there. And a couple of people had seen them leaving town with the Colonel before they ventured to his lodge. So, a few tracks were left.

It depends on how good you want the forensic team that the Arbites have to be. It depends if the assassain wears gloves, did the lodge have a survalence system? Does the tech priest record everything he says? Did people hear the man's opinion of the tech priest?

They're on Dusk, so the Dusk Hag is there. She could simply see it in the players eyes and see if they're willing to pay the price to truly get away with the act.

There is no forensic team around. It is just a lone Arbitrator (his formal rank is even Marshal) within this town and a handfull (about 5) at the far-away space-port and (capital-)city.

I think your idea of having the commissar poking his nose (but not to deep) into the affairs of the acolytes might do the trick. I would handle your situation exactly that way. If the players go blam-blam around the commissar too, I'd envision somekind of righteousness that's coming for the players (arbitrators, inquisitor or worse)

It is a sad truth that many, many players simply cannot role play credibly rational characters. Why? There are no "real" consequences for gak like this.

Maybe the Colonel is the old hunting buddy of Witchfinder Rykehuss, once Rykehuss finds out that his friend was murdered he vows revenge and hounds the acolyte's tail. Maybe, once he discovers who their master is, he demands that their Inquisitor censure the Acolytes or otherwise punish them. If the Inquisitor refuses, the Acolytes are responsible for a feud that could consume them all.

I see a lot of opportunities here.

Edit:

Nothing straightens out an Acolyte like a power-stake through the eye.

I can see where Darth and Astelan are coming from, I don't think corruption gets used enough mainly because I don't fill my games with daemons and warp sorcery. So corruption goes for insane or petty acts that sound like something and Imperial nobleman would do.

@Lord Nitpicker: Would you assign corruption points to your acolytes if they murdered a rival (puritan) inquisitor? This is the same, but only a much milder version.

I wouldn't, no.

Unless they murdered him using some occult warp-ritual or by unleashing daemons upon him

I know that BI and FFG haven't been entirely consistent with the message, but as I read the rules Corruption Points are only gained by being exposed to or participating in occult and/or warp related activities.

Dark Heresy, page 238 states: " All Acolytes sooner or later gain Corruption Points (CP). Corruption Points operate almost exactly like Insanity Points, except that they are gained through exposure to the warp, dark rituals, cursed artefacts and Daemonic influence. "

I can see where Darth and Astelan are coming from, I don't think corruption gets used enough mainly because I don't fill my games with daemons and warp sorcery. So corruption goes for insane or petty acts that sound like something and Imperial nobleman would do.

Interestingly I feel that those acts warrant Insanity Points. After all, we usually define those who do those kind of things as "sociopaths" or "maniacs", so I feel that Insanity is the way to handle the kind of things that "civilised" people won't do.

To elaborate a little, remember that Corruption Points lead to tentacles growing out of your bodily orifices.

We've had plenty of nasty people here on earth, and we don't have to go far back in history either. I think that as far as evil and depraved acts go, if you can imagine it, then it's probably been done.

And I still haven't seen any pictures or paintings of those evil ones with tentacles all over the place.

Hitler, Dr. Death, Stalin, Steve Jobs, Ivan the Terrible, Pol Pot or Calligula. If these things caused Warp mutations we'd know by now

To elaborate a little, remember that Corruption Points lead to tentacles growing out of your bodily orifices.

We've had plenty of nasty people here on earth, and we don't have to go far back in history either. I think that as far as evil and depraved acts go, if you can imagine it, then it's probably been done.

And I still haven't seen any pictures or paintings of those evil ones with tentacles all over the place.

Hitler, Dr. Death, Stalin, Steve Jobs, Ivan the Terrible, Pol Pot or Calligula. If these things caused Warp mutations we'd know by now

Although I can see your point based on citing the RAW, I must nitpick at your explanation here above . You're using examples of our universe in the 40k universe, which don't have that much to see with each other.

It's the same universe, just separated by about 40 000 years.

And even if it wasn't, there is still the fact that by the RAW CPs are only "awarded" for "Warp ****".

I guess it's a little depressing, but the fact is that as a race, we kinda suck. Experiments show that "normal" people will torture innocents to death if instructed by an (unknown) authority figure. There are countless examples of "evil" people that perform atrocities in the name of faith, policy or profit throughout history. The slave trade, fights to the death amongst prisoners in various death camps, genocide of the native americans, the jews.... the list goes on and on.

The point?

This is human nature.

It is, unfortunately, quite normal.

Maybe not civilised, maybe not universally approved of.

But quite normal.

We don't NEED Khorne to help us here, we don't need daemons or mad prophets. We're quite capable of these atrocities on our own, thank you very much! We've been doing it since before recorded time began.

So while I agree that actions of a very anti-social nature might deserve Insanity Points (to represent the sociopathic tendencies these acts suggest), I don't think they deserve the "rewards" of the chaos gods. They do not deserve or generate the sudden influence of the Warp that is needed to grow an extra arm covered with scales and with a nice crab-claw instead of a hand. Or a third eye.

It's all just... plain, old human evil. Tried and tested.

Corruption Points, on the other hand (or should that be tentacle?).... now thats fun! That's new! We've not seen that before. That takes the interest and action of some supernatural power. That takes an entirely different kind of dedication, with it's own set of rewards.

So... tl;dr?
Nope. Totally different

To me it's basically the opposite. Corruption is a rotting of the soul, it's a personal response to situations. You can either work harder to make sure everyone lives and life is a fraction better in a sh*thole universe, or you can make sure that you come out on top and everyone knows it. Actions like that are like a spark in the warp, and they eventually draw the attention of the denizens of that realm. Insanity on the other hand is for seeing messed up stuff like reality bending like water or realizing that the feast you just ate was human flesh and guess what it was actually pretty tasty. In the end it's all perspective. Yeah RAW corruption is warp related, but who said you have to follow RAW?

In the end it's all perspective. Yeah RAW corruption is warp related, but who said you have to follow RAW?

Indeed.

I guess the problem I see with your approach is that you can't really have any really evil people in such a universe, because they'd all be sprouting tentacles and other mutations before they ever got to the "Truly Evil" stage, and would then be executed and burned by the nearest enforcer squad.

There really isn't any room for a "hidden evil" if evil nature on it's own warps your physical form. Kinda hard to be the corrupt politician dealing with human trafficking, slavery and organ "acquisition" if you have to hold your televised press conferences with an extra eye in your forehead.

I'd be all for a third set of points to track the kind of moral decay you're after, that could lead to some of the malignancies that CPs can lead to. But as long as CPs lead to mutations of the truly chaotic kind, it just doesn't fit.

It's the same universe, just separated by about 40 000 years.

The 40k is a work of fiction. It's not at all the same universe. It's origin is very loosely based on our reality, but there the comparison stops. Perhaps I should have clarified that by universe, I mean "reality". My bad, in that case.

In the end it's all perspective. Yeah RAW corruption is warp related, but who said you have to follow RAW?

Indeed.

I guess the problem I see with your approach is that you can't really have any really evil people in such a universe, because they'd all be sprouting tentacles and other mutations before they ever got to the "Truly Evil" stage, and would then be executed and burned by the nearest enforcer squad.

There really isn't any room for a "hidden evil" if evil nature on it's own warps your physical form. Kinda hard to be the corrupt politician dealing with human trafficking, slavery and organ "acquisition" if you have to hold your televised press conferences with an extra eye in your forehead.

I'd be all for a third set of points to track the kind of moral decay you're after, that could lead to some of the malignancies that CPs can lead to. But as long as CPs lead to mutations of the truly chaotic kind, it just doesn't fit.

Agreed

It's the same universe, just separated by about 40 000 years.

And even if it wasn't, there is still the fact that by the RAW CPs are only "awarded" for "Warp ****".

I guess it's a little depressing, but the fact is that as a race, we kinda suck. Experiments show that "normal" people will torture innocents to death if instructed by an (unknown) authority figure. There are countless examples of "evil" people that perform atrocities in the name of faith, policy or profit throughout history. The slave trade, fights to the death amongst prisoners in various death camps, genocide of the native americans, the jews.... the list goes on and on.

The point?

This is human nature.

It is, unfortunately, quite normal.

Maybe not civilised, maybe not universally approved of.

But quite normal.

We don't NEED Khorne to help us here, we don't need daemons or mad prophets. We're quite capable of these atrocities on our own, thank you very much! We've been doing it since before recorded time began.

So while I agree that actions of a very anti-social nature might deserve Insanity Points (to represent the sociopathic tendencies these acts suggest), I don't think they deserve the "rewards" of the chaos gods. They do not deserve or generate the sudden influence of the Warp that is needed to grow an extra arm covered with scales and with a nice crab-claw instead of a hand. Or a third eye.

It's all just... plain, old human evil. Tried and tested.

Corruption Points, on the other hand (or should that be tentacle?).... now thats fun! That's new! We've not seen that before. That takes the interest and action of some supernatural power. That takes an entirely different kind of dedication, with it's own set of rewards.

So... tl;dr?

Nope. Totally different

Humans have the capability for extreme cruelness yes, but I believe there is a great difference in what someone might be capable of and actually doing it. There is always a reason to why people commit horrifying deeds.

I doubt a single human believes themselves evil, acts that might seem horrendous to us is probably reasonable to the one performing them. You list quite few above. The human ability to rationalize is quite extraordinary and I have no problem believing every single act listed above was justified by the one performing them.

That being said, for the situation at hand what bothers me is not really that he killed a man for being rude, but that I can’t see how he rationalized that action.

Switch tech-priest to noble born with “high vendetta” who instantly attacked the offender and I would not have said anything. But we’re talking about a tech-priest who gets insulted by an ignorant feral worlder, one that is otherwise a friendly informer and most likely have served the Emperor well during his time (considering he was a retired Imperial guard colonel). He must however have considered this insult so enraging that death would be the only punishment. But he does not act on this anger immediately but instead takes several hour to plan and execute his revenge.

By that time even an emotional hothead would have calmed down enough to realize that possibly sabotaging an inquisitorial mission to soothe ones hurt feelings might not be a good idea. And a tech-priest? The ones who considers emotions to be a weakness and to whom logical thinking is a virtue? It does not add up.

But maybe you had to be there, maybe this was how this character would act. In that case… it will be an interesting journey for everyone involved

The impression I got however is that this falls under the “unnecessary violence/unreasonable reaction”-category. Even though this can be a source to a lot of fun and memorable moments it can break immersion. But it happens, we have all done it at some point. However, what breaks immersion even more and frankly makes it boring is if the other players and, more than anything, the GM pretends that it didn’t happen or that it wouldn’t create reactions.

If a character is violent and impulsive people will eventually learn that and treat him/her accordingly.

We had a similar situation that went something like:

“- Why won’t anyone talk to us in this town?!

- You killed a man in the street

- But he insulted me

- He asked you a reasonable question, although he had a poor choice of words

- Exactly

- And you tore his face off with a chainsword, and then looted the body. His blood is still on you and you’re asking why people avoids you? Common sense that’s why.”

You say evil is in the human nature. Be that as it may, it does not mean it will be accepted by those exposed to it.

You’re probably right about the corruption points. I’m just thinking of one of the adventures where the acolytes get corruption points if they think they argue that they would not be affected by seeing a man murdered for fun…

I don't have to choose the tentacley mutations, and they can always just replace the parts that get mutated.

You’re probably right about the corruption points. I’m just thinking of one of the adventures where the acolytes get corruption points if they think they argue that they would not be affected by seeing a man murdered for fun…

Yes, that's what I was thinking of when I said BI weren't entirely consistent in their treatment of CPs. I think there's another example as well, but it's not supported by the rules and it never happened again after FFG took over the reins.

For real? He had a man killed for being rude? I expect corruption points at the very least. And he let a completely innocent man get killed as the culprit when he knew that he was not?

What if the Colonel had valuable information? What if he could have helped them? Didn’t the player/character consider this?

This is not only inhuman, it is counteractive to the work of an acolyte. If the inquisitor finds out he/she will probably think long and hard about having an agent who clearly doesn’t understand the concept of consequences or the value of human life. (And maybe consider if the problem with an easily manipulated assassin, but that was maybe something already known).

Maybe he’ll get away with this, but I’m guessing this might be something reoccurring since he committed this act quite deliberately. As a rule, if my players act crazy then people will treat them as if they were crazy. Assassinating someone for being disrespectful is not the act of a sane person. If he keeps it up, he’s bound to get noticed. Have people respond to his actions accordingly.

Since this is Dusk, and sort of a daemonic playground, his actions might even attract some “unwanted interest”.

Innocence proves nothing!

Well, yes, that is what he did, and I was a little surprised as well; though I consider this as a good immersion into the role (by the player) and less wanton destruction (i.e. the player is not a 13-year-old who was giggling while making this decision).

It is inhuman, but I suspect this was the point. The Tech-Priest is so inhuman, that he saw the Colonel as a nuisance similar to a virus/bug in a computer system that had to be eradicated.

Killing his servant while fleeing was a reaction by the rest of the party and those considered him the culprit. Actually the Assassin killed him with a head shot, while the others wanted to capture him alive for further interrogation (but they get used to the fact that the Assassin always kills and never leaves anyone for interrogation). He wanted to leave no possible “witnesses”.

Besides, it was clear the Colonel had no valuable information and that he was of no use and neither could help them in any way. He was very eccentric and aloof to the degree that he tended to not even listen to anything the PCs said. His servant even pretended to be dumb, because it didn’t matter anyway.

In the view of the Tech-Priest it was not crazy. Actually it was the opposite in his view. He comes from a strong caste-like background actually.

The cult plot will be “daemonic” enough, so that I want to have more mundane repercussions (i.e. the Commissar) for the Tech-Priest.

So the Arbite doesn't have a team, he should at least have a basic background in some forensic analysis and a small kit if he's managing even a small town. You don't have to make him inept just because he's one guy. If there was a thought of foul play then he'd investigate and if necessary he'd call in help.

He is not inept. Not by far. He has a sharp mind and is a little wary of the PCs. Still, he is alone in the town and on a desolate backwater planet. Though he is none the less a veteran, even though a little dusted. If he has any strong evidence or even a serious indication, he will act with all seriousness and no-nonsense manner of an Imperial Arbiter. (Actually, he is a little inspired by Federal Marshal William O'Niel from the movie Outland).

He could call in the help of the local PDF / enforcers. Though these guys could be more easily intimidated by the PCs. The PC group consist of an Arbitrator (Warden/Justicar /Mortiurge) and a psionic Junior-Interrogator / Legate Investigator (besides an Imperial Guard Veteran Sergeant, an almost Magos and a freelance Sons of Dispater Assassin), who are able to pack some authority by themselves.

I think your idea of having the commissar poking his nose (but not to deep) into the affairs of the acolytes might do the trick. I would handle your situation exactly that way. If the players go blam-blam around the commissar too, I'd envision somekind of righteousness that's coming for the players (arbitrators, inquisitor or worse)

I want to frighten them a little. Just a little. If they really go blam-blam (and I do not expect this to happen), they have to handle (at first instance) an able handed Commissar, two hellgun armed veteran guards, a grizzled Arbitrator and a little later a whole company of local PDF (armed with semi-automatic SP rifles) including half-tracks. If that’s the righteousness you mean…

It is a sad truth that many, many players simply cannot role play credibly rational characters. Why? There are no "real" consequences for gak like this.

As said, I consider this as a good immersion into the role (by the player) and less wanton destruction (i.e. the player is not a 13-year-old who was giggling while making this decision). Anyway, there will be some sort of consequences and my players should know their GM by now…

Maybe the Colonel is the old hunting buddy of Witchfinder Rykehuss, once Rykehuss finds out that his friend was murdered he vows revenge and hounds the acolyte's tail. Maybe, once he discovers who their master is, he demands that their Inquisitor censure the Acolytes or otherwise punish them. If the Inquisitor refuses, the Acolytes are responsible for a feud that could consume them all.

I see a lot of opportunities here.

Edit:

Nothing straightens out an Acolyte like a power-stake through the eye.

That is a pretty good idea. They already have some sort of feud with Rykehuus and only the intervention of Inquisitor Maar (and his enigmatic female servant (a Callidus Assassin in disguise in my campaign in fact)) saved their skin the last time.

Humans have the capability for extreme cruelness yes, but I believe there is a great difference in what someone might be capable of and actually doing it. There is always a reason to why people commit horrifying deeds.

I doubt a single human believes themselves evil, acts that might seem horrendous to us is probably reasonable to the one performing them. You list quite few above. The human ability to rationalize is quite extraordinary and I have no problem believing every single act listed above was justified by the one performing them.

That being said, for the situation at hand what bothers me is not really that he killed a man for being rude, but that I can’t see how he rationalized that action.

Switch tech-priest to noble born with “high vendetta” who instantly attacked the offender and I would not have said anything. But we’re talking about a tech-priest who gets insulted by an ignorant feral worlder, one that is otherwise a friendly informer and most likely have served the Emperor well during his time (considering he was a retired Imperial guard colonel). He must however have considered this insult so enraging that death would be the only punishment. But he does not act on this anger immediately but instead takes several hour to plan and execute his revenge.

By that time even an emotional hothead would have calmed down enough to realize that possibly sabotaging an inquisitorial mission to soothe ones hurt feelings might not be a good idea. And a tech-priest? The ones who considers emotions to be a weakness and to whom logical thinking is a virtue? It does not add up.

But maybe you had to be there, maybe this was how this character would act. In that case… it will be an interesting journey for everyone involved

The impression I got however is that this falls under the “unnecessary violence/unreasonable reaction”-category. Even though this can be a source to a lot of fun and memorable moments it can break immersion. But it happens, we have all done it at some point. However, what breaks immersion even more and frankly makes it boring is if the other players and, more than anything, the GM pretends that it didn’t happen or that it wouldn’t create reactions.

It was not an emotional decision by the character (maybe slightly by the player…), it was – as said above – more some kind of cool rational decision. In his view the Colonel was not a friendly informer (actually he indeed was not), but a nuisance that he wanted to be “switched off”.

Maybe the Colonel is the old hunting buddy of Witchfinder Rykehuss, once Rykehuss finds out that his friend was murdered he vows revenge and hounds the acolyte's tail. Maybe, once he discovers who their master is, he demands that their Inquisitor censure the Acolytes or otherwise punish them. If the Inquisitor refuses, the Acolytes are responsible for a feud that could consume them all.

I see a lot of opportunities here.

Edit:

Nothing straightens out an Acolyte like a power-stake through the eye.

That is a pretty good idea. They already have some sort of feud with Rykehuus and only the intervention of Inquisitor Maar (and his enigmatic female servant (a Callidus Assassin in disguise in my campaign in fact)) saved their skin the last time.

Holy crap, my Acolytes serve Silas Marr. Aaand they're just about to run afoul of Rykehuss. Great minds, eh?

Edit: I kind of like the idea that their inquisitor placates Rykehuss by appearing to punish his acolytes by sending them to a Penal World, when he's actually sending them on another mission.