Possibly everyone knows this, but I'm unclear. Are Jedi celibate? I'm trying to get my head around why Anakin's marriage to Padme had to be so secret. Was it because she was a senator and there was supposed to be political distance between Jedi and the government, or was it that Jedi aren't supposed to do that sort of thing. I remember a line about "Jedi do not form attachments" in the Clone Wars or very similar.

But then Luke had children later on, did he not? What's the deal here, and how big a deal is it?

And I assume Sith can do what they want, (up until the point they develop unattractive yellow eyes and bumpy skin, anyway. )

They ain't meant to form attachments. Intimacy fosters that so I'd say that in the prequel era it's a no-no.

That said, I think the Twi'lek and the Nautolan were bumping uglies during the Clone Wars.

Usually yes.

However, there have been romances and courtship happening despite their philosophy.

If a Jedi wants to get married and have children they usually leave the order and become normal citizens. Should they use the Force for selfish gains as a non-order-member the other Jedis would have to investigate and arrest him/her.

Compare them if you want to real life christian monks. Including the (juicy) scandals.

As for Luke: He decided that after a hidden marriage caused his father to go Sith that it would be better (and more honest) to let Jedis get married.

After RotJ, when Luke formed the new Jedi Order he relaxed the standards from the old days. Jedi were allowed to marry and have children. This was partly done because there were so few Force sensitive's at the time (the Emperor had been hunting them down and killing them for over 20 years) and children of Jedi are highly likely to be force sensitive. In the old Jedi order they weren't allowed to marry, although there were a few very rare exceptions that were granted.

Cone head old guy was allowed to marry, if I remember correctly, simply because males were so rare among his species.

So him being taken away from his people and banned from mating would have had serious repercussions for his people in the long run.

Huh. Very interesting. I suppose Anakin was also an apprentice at the time. In medieval society, I don't think an apprentice could marry without their master's permission.

I find the bit about Luke allowing people to marry to produce more force-sensitive children after RotJ interesting. So if force-powers breed true (more or less), I'm having flashbacks to Sourcery by Terry Pratchett, in which it turns out the real reason wizards (the most powerful of whom are the eighth son of an eighth son) aren't allowed to marry is nothing to do with purity of the intellect or such as had been claimed, but because it would produce super-powerful wizards (sourcerors). I wonder if the original reason Jedi weren't supposed to marry was because it would produce an unstoppable elite. Or if Luke's suspension of the laws later on would lead to this. Have their ever been Jedi breeding programs?

Also, I have this amusing image in my head of "cone-head" when he finds out the Jedi are coming to collect him. "Guys - hide, or I'm never going to get laid again." Later... "Yes, males are rare on my world, you must suspend your rules on celibacy for, ah..., the good of my species. Yeah."

Ki-Adi-Mundi was the exception to a lot of rules. He had five wives, seven children, and was even appointed to the Jedi Council while he was still a Jedi Knight.

I think it mostly comes down to the "do not form attachments" thing. Marriage being a much bigger attachment than a casual hook-up.

That and Star Wars often doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.... (And I say this as a fan!)

This isn't OFFICIALLY canon, but here's my explanation. It could be canon, I'm not really sure.

Yoda instituted the rule of no-marriage, and he was Grand master for ~200 years, so that sort of marked the 'Yoda' era of the Jedi Council.

Maybe it is, I'm not very clear about the status of Jedi marriage during the Old Republic era (EG KOTOR and the TOR MMO). I think it's allowed because clearly Bastilla has a 'line' of Jedi, but it's not clear whether the marriage was sanctioned.

I say this because

During the Sith Wars, famous Jedi Nomi Sunrider is trained by her husband, and many other Jedi Masters are married

During the New Sith Wars, (EG, Battle of Ruusan, the war in which the Sith were all killed and came the Rule of Two) there were Jedi Lords, such as Lord Hoth, that had lines and lineages. You don't have a 'line' without marraige.

The New Sith Wars are 1000 years ABY, and Yoda is 900 years old. I'm assuming here that Yoda led the Jedi Council for like 200 years considering he was not yet Grandmaster during the time of the fall of the Chuunthor over Dathomir, which was 230 ABY.

I like to think, and frankly I think that it fits REALLY well, that YODA is the one primarily responsible for instituting the ban on Jedi marriage. It kind of fits the whole 'made your own unmaker' thing that happened to Obi-Wan. Under his reign the Jedi forgot who they were and became hermits and monks that were so unconnected with the rest of the galaxy, that Palpatine was able to sneak it in right under their nose.

Meanwhile, LUKE'S New Jedi Order really doesn't draw any material from the Clone Wars and Yoda's time, but rather the days of the Sith Wars and the Old Old Old Republic 4000 ABY. It makes perfect sense that Yoda wouldn't have taught him all the dogma from the Clone Wars time- Yoda KNOWS he probably made a huge mistake with Anakin and banning marriage..20 years living in a swamp will do that.

IRL, this is all explained by the Prequals. Jedi not marrying was something purely introduced into the prequals in order to introduce 'dramatic tension' in that Anakin could not marry Padme. Before that, there was no particular reason why Jedi could NOT be married, and so writers assumed that they could.

My personal view is blame Yoda. Yoda, while a great badass that he is and a kind wise dude, if you look at it from a results based stand point, is probably the worst Grand Master in Galactic history. He presided over the near destruction of the Jedi order and a Galactic take over by the Sith, which happened to no Grand Master before him.

And yes, while many Grand Masters DID see Galaxy spanning wars against the Sith..Yoda pretty much managed to participate in a non-war that was purposely designed to kill as many Jedi as possible, and fed his people into the grinder until the very end.

Finally- finally, the Jedi Code is very explicit about attachment, and marriage in particular is a human thing. In the EU/comics many Jedi 'get around' this by well, just sort of slutting around and sleeping with people and then going like 'Nope, no attachment here, just basic human need'. I think this was implied with Obi-Wan - Satine, and it's clear Quinlan Vos actively had sex with women James Bond style in order to infiltrate enemy lines.

I think many alien Jedi probably are allowed to reproduce if they don't have attachments, such as Selonians or Verpines- these societies like many animals don't form 'families', but rather all children are formed into a communal pool, and mating is more a required biological function rather than a form of attachment.

Reminds me of a task you are given in the SW:TOR MMO. You have to find out about this couple (one or both being Jedi) and then turn them in for light side points in the game. All I could think was "I have to be a douchebag to be a Jedi."

I've got to say I'm really glad I asked this question. It's proven absolutely fascinating.

I like the notion that Yoda introduced the celibacy / no-marriage thing. That's right - take advice on breeding habits from someone who is the only known member of their species surviving.

If, as has been pointed out, Force sensitivity is inheritable, then celibacy is about the worst thing you could do for the Jedi. It's practically guaranteed they will self-select themselves out of existence. I mean monks in human history can do it because you don't need any special inheritance to be a monk - anyone can be one. But if any Force-sensitive kids forego relationships generation after generation...

It's a shame, really. I'm picturing love-making between two force users as being something like *that* scene in Dark Shadows. Albeit I guess that's two Sith in their case, rather than Jedi.

So this raises another question - it was mentioned that Jedi that wanted to marry had to leave the order. But they still have their powers, correct? So what happens to a Force user who wants nothing to do with being part of the Jedi organization. Do you have to do a Dooku? How does that work?

(This is really all very interesting)

The question is a little ethnocentric imo. It's based on a human perspective and why it's a biological issue for us to endure celibacy. Given the large number of races in the galaxy, and present in the Jedi order, celibacy may not be as big an issue for the majority of races in the galaxy. Intimacy and attachment might not be conditional on how many races breed and raise their young, so one man's hardship is another races 'no big deal' so to speak.

I wonder if the original reason Jedi weren't supposed to marry was because it would produce an unstoppable elite. Or if Luke's suspension of the laws later on would lead to this. Have their ever been Jedi breeding programs?

I don't think Jedi + Jedi = Super Jedi.

Then again, I prefer emphasising the mystical side of the Force. To me, the Skywalkers are strong in the Force because the Force needs them to be, not because of genetics. Luke and Leia are twins, but only Luke registers as "strong in the Force" to Obi Wan and Vader. But later, Yoda sort of claims they can try again with Leia if it doesn't work out with Luke (I took this to mean she'll become the next Force "nexus", if you will).

EDIT: BTW, spoilers.

I've got to say I'm really glad I asked this question. It's proven absolutely fascinating.

I like the notion that Yoda introduced the celibacy / no-marriage thing. That's right - take advice on breeding habits from someone who is the only known member of their species surviving.

If, as has been pointed out, Force sensitivity is inheritable, then celibacy is about the worst thing you could do for the Jedi. It's practically guaranteed they will self-select themselves out of existence. I mean monks in human history can do it because you don't need any special inheritance to be a monk - anyone can be one. But if any Force-sensitive kids forego relationships generation after generation...

It's a shame, really. I'm picturing love-making between two force users as being something like *that* scene in Dark Shadows. Albeit I guess that's two Sith in their case, rather than Jedi.

So this raises another question - it was mentioned that Jedi that wanted to marry had to leave the order. But they still have their powers, correct? So what happens to a Force user who wants nothing to do with being part of the Jedi organization. Do you have to do a Dooku? How does that work?

(This is really all very interesting)

..I think Jedi that leave the order become well, Force Sensitive Exiles

The Jedi Order does not harm or attempt to..'still' Jedi that decide to leave the order for various reasons. This is canon and a bit of a spoiler honestly, so I won't talk about it anymore.

Besides, that would be genocide. In fact they seem to be reasonably tolerant of other Force Users, TCW Season 6 has a planet of Shamanistic Force Users that have a bit of an issue with Jedi uh..baby-snatching issues.

A Jedi is like a soldier. They have a lightsaber and..well, in war time they have a whole freaking army and automatic General status, so that's pretty good. I mean, who else gets to be a Stormtrooper commander at the age of like 15?

If, as has been pointed out, Force sensitivity is inheritable, then celibacy is about the worst thing you could do for the Jedi.

Not really, because Force-sensitive people are spontaneously born. I really don't know how much of the EU to drag into this, but it seems Lucas had some idea that it would be at least partially genetically based, but not entirely. Also (don't recall where I read this, I believe it was in the Knight of the Old Republic comic book, which is a chronological prequel to the KOTOR game, but anyway...) the non-attachment rule predates Yoda by a long shot. One of the reasons the Jedi made this rule is because the Jedi were forming dynasties and setting themselves up to rule whole sectors of the galaxy. After the massive wipeout of the Sith and Jedi 1000 years prior to E4, it was decided that the Force itself would determine who was Force sensitive or not, and that genetic breeding interfered with that.

I guess the lesson is that any solution has its attendant share of problems...

It is clear that force sensitivity is genetic. Jedi are more likely to have force sensitive offspring. However, the genes that code for force sensitive are clearly not simple Dominant/Recessive ones.

As to the the issue of elitism. It exists and has been explored. There are planets where force users dominate their un-endowed kin. The Jedi try to remain above that. There is fluff pertaining to breeding force users. These are all things you get to explore in your game. I think that's a good thing.

Given that Jedi can't parry laser cannons, the idea that they could create a lasting dynasty to rule the Galaxy is pretty far fetched, but that doesn't stop the Emperor from trying.

I am in agreement that either the "No marriage" was more of a plot point for something similar to a monk. If offspring of force uses are likely to be force sensitive themselves, and THe Jedi order wanted to take in babies instead of 8 year olds. it makes little sense to prevent marriage and children.

Sure get married, have children, but we request that your children be raised in a creche in the Jedi Temple

Attachment is forbidden, possessions forbidden. Compassion which I describe as unconditional love, is central to a Jedi's life. so you could say we are encouraged to love.

I always viewed it as attachments lead to all sorts of emotions that when left unchecked led to the dark side, and a Jedi that falls to the dark side is a major threat. So in order to reduce the risk of a Jedi falling to the dark side, the order banned attachments and recruited members as infants.

They ain't meant to form attachments. Intimacy fosters that so I'd say that in the prequel era it's a no-no.

That said, I think the Twi'lek and the Nautolan were bumping uglies during the Clone Wars.

On the other hand, one night stands are completely devoid of attachments. Both parties are in the transaction for one thing: half an hour of woo-hoo. So a Jedi maintaining a little black book? Against the rules. A Jedi just crusing the strip looking for a Zipless F - that's A-OK!

Personally, I think it's a practical attempt to limit the number of Jedi that fall to the Dark Side due to jealous rage.

Have you guys ever been spurned or cheated on by a lover? It sucks. Makes you crazy, and angry. Fair to say it leads to hatred, and we know where that leads. Detectives know adultery by another name: motive.

Now imagine that jealous lover or spouse has super psychic powers and a lightsaber. That's a recipe for disaster. Better to tell such people to avoid romantic entanglements altogether, because if you don't, some of them are going to get spurned or cheated on, and then fall.

I think others are right to say that's a humanocentric view. Other sentients might have a much easier time with sex than humans do.

Well on the Yoda point. I've never heard that the materials for the Old Republic seem to suggest that relationships were shunned by the Jedi at that period in time.

As for celibacy. It's pretty clear in the Clone Wars show that Obi Wan had a fling with that Mandalorian leader Satinee or whatever her name was. It wasn't so much that they couldn't get romantically involved with people. There are a few Clone War era examples where even marriage was allowed for cultural reasons. It was always about being able to keep your feelings from getting in the way. The episodes with Obi Wan and the Mando woman are good examples to me about how this is complicated, but Obi Wan avoids the biggest perils of attachment by falling back on his training.

The way I see it is, what really screwed Anakin up was that he always believed he was special that the rules didn't apply to him. That and he was an abusive jerk based on what I've seen of his relationship with Padme in the Clone Wars. That's my .02 credits.

Come on! We all know Qui-Gon and Annakin's mom hit it.

@Desslok: Only half an hour? Maybe you should go on a diet, do some exercise, talk to a doctor? Or try those little blue pills. ^^

btt:

Anakin was rather damaged goods.

First he was introduced into the Order by age 9, after having formed several attachments to peoples, hobbies, even technologies. The other Padawans never got that. And all that talk about the prophecy and bringing balance to the Force did not help either. So the whole secret marriage thing was just another drop into an overflowing barrel. Add a charming bastard like Palpatine and he had to fall.

And the no-marriage-thing i agree too has to be something that was done during the Ruusan reformation, to keep the Jedis from becoming/staying rulers of planets and systems.

Well on the Yoda point. I've never heard that the materials for the Old Republic seem to suggest that relationships were shunned by the Jedi at that period in time.

? It's a major plot point in KOTOR. It's difficult to romance Bastila unless you play it just right, and "just right" is somewhat informed by Jolee's attitudes, which isn't that love is the problem, it's passion. If you can be in love without freaking out if things don't work out the way you want, then you're okay...but that's hard to do.