The Vong were definitely very different from "typical" Star Wars, but they weren't horrible. Yes they used biotech, but in a galaxy as diverse as SW is it beyond possiblily to have a race that uses biotech? The force doesn't really touch them. True, but there are races in the movies(Toydarians, Hutts, etc) that couldn't be manipulated via the force. As a side note, if i remember correctly, the Vong could not be sensed or mentally affected by the force, kinda like droids, but physical manifestations of power could affect them, such as force push, pull, etc. Also I always felt they were kind of an allusion to modern day islamic jihadist.(religious fanatics bent on killing and conquest in the name of their god) and then at the end some of their less fanatic and religious people worked with the New Republic to overthrow the super religious fanatical leadership.

If they were to make a 3rd faction for this game it should be based around mercs/bounty Hunters. I think that Blacksun could be a cool group for that side

The yellow person dies. I am sorry you dont like it but there people, including me that do love this stuff. =)

Well, be sure to let the other two know about this thread so they can chime in too.

<shakes head> Seriously... Multi-colored force lightning with different effects? Only the yellow lightning stuns droids? Spontaneous explosion due to midichlorian deprivation? Refusing to follow even Lucas's own realization of how bad an idea midichlorians were and pretend they just don't exist? Wow. I'll admit I stopped reading shortly after the YV showed up, I had no idea it had gotten so very, very stupid.

No wonder FFG went to a 20-year-old video game for their first EU addition. It all makes perfect sense now.

Black Knight Leader is painting a really, really bad portrait of the EU. It honestly sounds like some fanwank of trying to figure out "how things work", ignoring that this setting is more fantasy than science fiction.

The force doesn't really touch them. True, but there are races in the movies(Toydarians, Hutts, etc) that couldn't be manipulated via the force. As a side note, if i remember correctly, the Vong could not be sensed or mentally affected by the force, kinda like droids, but physical manifestations of power could affect them, such as force push, pull, etc.

It does touch them. In the Dark Empire source book it show that Luke can use the force even on the strong minded.

Onimi is an import force user to take note of because not only could they control the Vong with the force they were a Vong themselves.

The yellow person dies. I am sorry you dont like it but there people, including me that do love this stuff. =)

Well, be sure to let the other two know about this thread so they can chime in too.

<shakes head> Seriously... Multi-colored force lightning with different effects? Only the yellow lightning stuns droids? Spontaneous explosion due to midichlorian deprivation? Refusing to follow even Lucas's own realization of how bad an idea midichlorians were and pretend they just don't exist? Wow. I'll admit I stopped reading shortly after the YV showed up, I had no idea it had gotten so very, very stupid.

No wonder FFG went to a 20-year-old video game for their first EU addition. It all makes perfect sense now.

There are thousands of us that like this stuff. It was GL that evented the Red Force Lightning. Story line wise The Son is the first to use it. As for explosions it only happens with object that never had midiclorians and technically anything living that never had them.

Black Knight Leader is painting a really, really bad portrait of the EU. It honestly sounds like some fanwank of trying to figure out "how things work", ignoring that this setting is more fantasy than science fiction.

Like I said there lots of us that like this stuff and I dont see it as a bad picture as you put it. Its not ****, just look at the refrences above.

BTW The refrence for the effect of Purple Force Lightning was published in a Q&A in Star Wars insider around 5 years ago.

The YV killed the EU for me. I don't see biotech beating tech tech, it was silly in Avatar, and a stretch in Babylon 5. However living tech should be weak to the force, not strong. That little detail just made them too painful to go near. I switched to old republic books instead.

Jar Jar was bad editing. If there had been someone to put the breaks on Lucas it could have been an ok character, as opposed to a thinly veiled racial stereotype.

The thing about star wars is that the stories are about the people, that is why it is better than trek, technobabble never saves the day. All that noise about colors of force lightening just sound like force magic the gathering, not cool for Star Wars. I am sure some of you love it, as a similar story in another universe I might too, but it wasn't starwars.

If the YV cease to exist, I will dance a happy dance.

I have to say, I was never a fan of the idea of the YV. I have only read or listened to a couple of the books from the NJO series. I always thought they were just a biological version of the Borg from Star Trek. And I have read a LOT of EU novels, as well as every comic ever produced. I've never had the desire to go through the long haul that is the NJO series. (I even listened to the entire terrible Fate of the Jedi series on audiobook....shudder)

BUT.

The comic series INVASION is incredible. It's really good on every level. I can't recommend it enough.

In my opinion, one of the greatest tragedies of Dark Horse losing the SW license back to Marvel is that they will never have a true conclusion to this series.

Look it up, check it out from your library, and then post what you think.

Deep breath.....

Babylon 5 was not my favourite sci-fi, but the Shadows and Vorlons were cool. Sadly it was these two races, and their war, which made the series for me. Once gone, the human civil war kept the interest but then it went a bit meh!

Avatar was one of the best sci-fi I've seen, but it wasn't a tech VS bio showdown. It was a human occupation VS native inhabitants and the warrior on home terf should never be underestimated. Recent history proves that you go charging into a "primitive" country with the attitude "I shall destroy them with my tech" you're in for a butt kicking. Do remember that the humans achieved a high kill count and, were it not for the sudden arrival of all the creatures the battle would have gone differently.

Yuuzhan Vong are not really like Tyranids. Not played Starcraft so can't comment on Zerg. Tyranids breed creature whereas the Vong are being more comparable to Dark Eldar who mutilate themselves and use biological rather than technological......technology. Just wanted to clear that up for Digitalkiller .

I can't help but wonder if the reason Vong are hated is because they were a threat. Droids get choped up in their dozens. Little fuzzy Ewoks kill Stormtroopers by hitting their thick helmets with stones. But the Vong storm into the galaxy, kill loads of characters and suddenly everyone cries that it is wrong. Granted, I always felt that Star Wars was fun with dark themes presented in a way which stops them from being scary or depressing. From that perspective the Vong are wrong for the setting.

I for one hope Episodes VII to IX are a continuation of the Skywalker family. Step aside daddy, preferably in Episode VII, and let the kids kick some serious butt. However, I also want a good antagonist which isn't Droids and isn't Empire. I only mentioned the Yuuzhan Vong because they are so different to anything we've seen in Star Wars before and won't lose limbs every time a Jedi walks into the room.

If the next three Episodes are little more than happy, clappy, skipping through daisy fields with flowers in their hair, all is peaceful and now I use a lightsaber to cut toast; I think I might dislike it. Remember 30 years in the future from Endor the Galactic Civil War is over. Believe it was 21 After Battle of Yavin, 17 years after Endor, that the Galactic Civil War officially ended. Though it was already looking bleak for the Empire before that.

So no Droid armies, no Empire and no Yuuzhan Vong leaves behind very little to cover three Episodes beyond happy families.

Just looking at pictures of their ships makes me not thrilled about them.

I would like the new movies to cover Jacen's turn, but I have read something that said t was going to be an all new story we haven't seen. So I see something more in the line of a Lost Tribe type of thing or maybe a long lost Darth re-incarnated typoe of thing.

I did run across something relevant for XWM in the NJO books. Although I seriously doubt that YV will ever be seen in our game, there is some good justification for the inclusion of Chiss Clawcraft. Soontir Fel's son responded to an imperial call to arms with 36 clawcraft in one of the books. While I would normally treat the chiss as a completely separate political entity, I think this is good enough to justify FFG printing something as awesome as clawcraft.

I would like the new movies to cover Jacen's turn, but I have read something that said t was going to be an all new story we haven't seen. So I see something more in the line of a Lost Tribe type of thing or maybe a long lost Darth re-incarnated typoe of thing.

The fall of Jacen is probably the worst of the Eu I can think of. Anyone who thinks NJO was bad has got to think that it is that much worse. Though since I don't have a problem with the vong my issue us his Buddhist path for lack of a better term was one of the best things about NJO and making him fall because of it isn't the jedi way is just as stupid as calling revan evil after his redemption because he uses good emotions like happiness and love to power his force abilities instead of having no emotion.

Deep breath.....

Babylon 5 was not my favourite sci-fi, but the Shadows and Vorlons were cool. Sadly it was these two races, and their war, which made the series for me. Once gone, the human civil war kept the interest but then it went a bit meh!

Avatar was one of the best sci-fi I've seen, but it wasn't a tech VS bio showdown. It was a human occupation VS native inhabitants and the warrior on home terf should never be underestimated. Recent history proves that you go charging into a "primitive" country with the attitude "I shall destroy them with my tech" you're in for a butt kicking. Do remember that the humans achieved a high kill count and, were it not for the sudden arrival of all the creatures the battle would have gone differently.

Yuuzhan Vong are not really like Tyranids. Not played Starcraft so can't comment on Zerg. Tyranids breed creature whereas the Vong are being more comparable to Dark Eldar who mutilate themselves and use biological rather than technological......technology. Just wanted to clear that up for Digitalkiller .

I can't help but wonder if the reason Vong are hated is because they were a threat. Droids get choped up in their dozens. Little fuzzy Ewoks kill Stormtroopers by hitting their thick helmets with stones. But the Vong storm into the galaxy, kill loads of characters and suddenly everyone cries that it is wrong. Granted, I always felt that Star Wars was fun with dark themes presented in a way which stops them from being scary or depressing. From that perspective the Vong are wrong for the setting.

I for one hope Episodes VII to IX are a continuation of the Skywalker family. Step aside daddy, preferably in Episode VII, and let the kids kick some serious butt. However, I also want a good antagonist which isn't Droids and isn't Empire. I only mentioned the Yuuzhan Vong because they are so different to anything we've seen in Star Wars before and won't lose limbs every time a Jedi walks into the room.

If the next three Episodes are little more than happy, clappy, skipping through daisy fields with flowers in their hair, all is peaceful and now I use a lightsaber to cut toast; I think I might dislike it. Remember 30 years in the future from Endor the Galactic Civil War is over. Believe it was 21 After Battle of Yavin, 17 years after Endor, that the Galactic Civil War officially ended. Though it was already looking bleak for the Empire before that.

So no Droid armies, no Empire and no Yuuzhan Vong leaves behind very little to cover three Episodes beyond happy families.

Deep breath.....

Babylon 5 was not my favourite sci-fi, but the Shadows and Vorlons were cool. Sadly it was these two races, and their war, which made the series for me. Once gone, the human civil war kept the interest but then it went a bit meh!

Avatar was one of the best sci-fi I've seen, but it wasn't a tech VS bio showdown. It was a human occupation VS native inhabitants and the warrior on home terf should never be underestimated. Recent history proves that you go charging into a "primitive" country with the attitude "I shall destroy them with my tech" you're in for a butt kicking. Do remember that the humans achieved a high kill count and, were it not for the sudden arrival of all the creatures the battle would have gone differently.

Yuuzhan Vong are not really like Tyranids. Not played Starcraft so can't comment on Zerg. Tyranids breed creature whereas the Vong are being more comparable to Dark Eldar who mutilate themselves and use biological rather than technological......technology. Just wanted to clear that up for Digitalkiller .

I can't help but wonder if the reason Vong are hated is because they were a threat. Droids get choped up in their dozens. Little fuzzy Ewoks kill Stormtroopers by hitting their thick helmets with stones. But the Vong storm into the galaxy, kill loads of characters and suddenly everyone cries that it is wrong. Granted, I always felt that Star Wars was fun with dark themes presented in a way which stops them from being scary or depressing. From that perspective the Vong are wrong for the setting.

I for one hope Episodes VII to IX are a continuation of the Skywalker family. Step aside daddy, preferably in Episode VII, and let the kids kick some serious butt. However, I also want a good antagonist which isn't Droids and isn't Empire. I only mentioned the Yuuzhan Vong because they are so different to anything we've seen in Star Wars before and won't lose limbs every time a Jedi walks into the room.

If the next three Episodes are little more than happy, clappy, skipping through daisy fields with flowers in their hair, all is peaceful and now I use a lightsaber to cut toast; I think I might dislike it. Remember 30 years in the future from Endor the Galactic Civil War is over. Believe it was 21 After Battle of Yavin, 17 years after Endor, that the Galactic Civil War officially ended. Though it was already looking bleak for the Empire before that.

So no Droid armies, no Empire and no Yuuzhan Vong leaves behind very little to cover three Episodes beyond happy families.

The issue with the Vong was how artificial they felt. It basically came down to, "Crap, we've made Jedi too powerful, let's custom make a foe that neutralizes all of their advantages." Everything about the YV felt like the whole species and all their stuff was built specifically just to counter what was going on. There was no feeling of an organic society that developed to where it got. No sense that this culture or even this tech grew from anything. And that was extremely annoying. Beyond that the masochistic nature of the culture was 100% uncomfortable and doesn't fit into heroic literature. The writing in the EU has never been amazing, and the YV highlight how terrible the verse-building could get. The YV portrayal almost felt like an ignorant racists description of the Vong over a real description. Like Doyle's portrayal of Mormons in the Holmes books.

I feel that alot of the Yong issues comes from people that didn't finish the series. They could be sensed through the force though admittedly alot of powers didn't work directly on them. Their weapons being able to block lightsabers wasn't the first time something could. You have the sith warblades and anything made of cortorsis . The Vong were portrayed the way they were in the beginning so you could hate them. The authors needed you to get behind the war with the vong so they killed some characters to get you personally involved they only had you experience the warrior class at the start so you disliked them even more. If I remember right(Its been years since I read the series) the only major massochist stuff came from the warrior cast. By the end of the series they felt like a real people, you knew why they were in the galaxy, why they couldn't be affected directly by force powers, and how they evolved.

Edit: Though I think this thread has kind of derailed so back on topic. Even though I like the Vong I don't think they should make vong ships for this game. I don't think they would function well within the rules and while I think organic ships could look awesome the vong craft didn't. Also as previously stated there weren't really more then 2 or 3 fighters. On a similar note chiss claw craft would be awesome for the empire but I don't think you could make a chiss faction since they too only had a fighter or two. Unless the new movies gives us more fighters for either faction.

JJ Abrams has achieved his lifelong dream on writing and directing a Star Wars movie. He's not going to use this chance to create a movie using somebody else's bad guys or plot ... Would you?!. He's also making the movie for casual fans who probably have never even heard of the Vong.

You can guarantee that the bad guy in the new movie will:

1) Wear black and red

2) Have some sort of scar or tattoo

3) Kick ass with the force

In fact I'm so sure that we'll never see the Vong in X-Wing that I'll buy TomRK two copies of every Vong ship that FFG produces. So let it be written. So let it be done.

In fact I'm so sure that we'll never see the Vong in X-Wing that I'll buy TomRK two copies of every Vong ship that FFG produces. So let it be written. So let it be done.

Funny you should say that because they've just announced Wave 5: Vong ships......

I may just be joking but be careful.

You cannot predict what the future might be.

The issue with the Vong was how artificial they felt. It basically came down to, "Crap, we've made Jedi too powerful, let's custom make a foe that neutralizes all of their advantages.

There are a lot of topics where you and I don't see eye-to-eye, but this precisely describes my objection to the Yuuzhan Vong.

To draw an analogy, good writing for Superman focuses on the ethical and moral dilemmas inherent in being able to do basically anything, as well as on his role as a bridge between two very different worlds--basically, it focuses on the things that make him continue to decide to be human. Bad writing for Superman usually has some deus ex machina that removes some subset of his powers, because the writer can't imagine a way to write him without introducing physical vulnerabilities.

The raison d'etre of the Yuuzhan Vong, for me, is to be Kryptonite for Jedi. They're not a fully-realized part of the SW universe, but rather a straightforward foil for the New Jedi Order. They're a painfully obvious narrative device rather than a group of characters, and it works against my suspension of disbelief with respect to the plot arc as a whole.

***

I'm working my way through Clone Wars, and I've been struck by this point: Palpatine's scheming and conflict half-tempts and half-forces the Jedi to reconceive of themselves as warriors and soldiers. In doing so, he simultaneously corrupts their connection to the Force and pushes the galaxy to view the the Jedi not as peaceful scholar-monks who act when impelled by conscience and justice, but as an autonomous political and military power--because military power can be defeated, and political power can be twisted or taken away.

When Yoda says "Wars not make one great", he's speaking from a place of deep pain and knowledge won far too late. He was unable to stop Palpatine's rise not because he didn't have enough power, but because he had allowed Palpatine to control and direct the efforts of the entire Order--because Palpatine had made them warriors, and war does not make one great.

And that's how you write an arc that really threatens a whole Order full of inhumanly powerful wizard-knights in space. The Yuuzhan Vong are a procedural challenge: the suspense and conflict is mostly external, and mostly about the steps the Jedi have to take to understand and counter this sudden threat. Palpatine, though, was a dramatic challenge: the plot forces the characters involved to change; the fundamental conflicts are really internal; the suspense is about who the Jedi (individually and as a group) will be when they finish changing, and whether their better nature will conquer the baser appeal of violence and power.

It started as a simple speculation into possible future miniature wave release introducing another faction.

I feel it may have gotten a little off that simple topic. But I do like how people are willing to explain their objections rather than simply stating "no I don't want them".

Will need to take a time out after all this reading.

Im not saying the Legacy of the Force books are the best thing since Jar-Jar but a different take on how he feel would be good. I firmly understand why he chose his path, but I against how they did it.

It started as a simple speculation into possible future miniature wave release introducing another faction.

I feel it may have gotten a little off that simple topic. But I do like how people are willing to explain their objections rather than simply stating "no I don't want them".

Will need to take a time out after all this reading.

Yeah, Vorpal's argument is the first one I have heard about how the vong were a bad idea that actually made me think he read the series and still didn't like it. Though oddly enough he equates the vong to the one superhero I seriously dislike. I just can't get behind a basically invincible person being heroic. What else would he do? The only interesting story arc I have read or seen on superman was the first few seasons of smallville the rest just don't interest me.

I'm a little surprised to see so much Negativity towards the vong. I liked the NJO series and the vong because:

1: The villains weren't a simple rehashing of the empire, but we're powerful enough to seriously threaten the galaxy. The empire was thoroughly played out as a threat, and so are the sith.

2: a reintroduction of suspense. Main characters die, early on, in order to make it clear that the literary gloves are off and the usual bounds that EU fiction were restricted by didn't necessarily apply. I couldn't just assume that my characters would win the day and make it through unscathed. In real stories the heroes die sometimes, and the stories are usually better for it.

3: the vong were reasonably alien. Not toooo alien, but alien enough to be different from everyone else. Biological tech is a trope of sci fi, but not a terrible one in my estimation.

4: good, slow-played character arcs, not just for main characters. Ganner Rhysode being my personal favorite.

The only EU I would put over NJO is the thrawn arc, and even then not by too much.

This. I like the YV and I too am somehwat surprised to find many with strong opinions against them. They were a strange alien race but not too strange that they felt out of place to me, in fact, they were a nice departure from the usual Imperial/Sith villian. I also enjoyed the idea of a race of alien invaders that were so formidable that it took the combined effort of the New Jedi Order, New Republic and Imperial Remnant to defeat them.

Although I like him alot, Chewbacca dying was a good thing which immediately sets the tone and tension of the series in which our heroes will never always come out unscathe. This is a darker Star Wars. That being said, I'd be disappointed if they brought him back for EpVII.

As for the YV ships in X-wing, as much as I like the YV, I don't think FFG will make them anytime soon for the game if at all. Their appeal might be too niche plus most of their ships look ugly despite having cool technologies like blackhole shields.

I have to say I was shocked when Chewie died, but the impact of Jacen killing Mara Jade was just immense. I for one do not believe that the new films will feature anything of the EU, but the only thing I really want to see if lightsaber battles, and lots of them.

Now back on topic, I think a third faction would be good in X-Wing and I think it should be smugglers, with them the variety of ships would be huge. Just image a three way battle, the Rebel scum and the empire are going toe to toe, only for a smuggler force to enter and mix things up, lots of potential I think.

I have to say I was shocked when Chewie died, but the impact of Jacen killing Mara Jade was just immense. I for one do not believe that the new films will feature anything of the EU, but the only thing I really want to see if lightsaber battles, and lots of them.

Now back on topic, I think a third faction would be good in X-Wing and I think it should be smugglers, with them the variety of ships would be huge. Just image a three way battle, the Rebel scum and the empire are going toe to toe, only for a smuggler force to enter and mix things up, lots of potential I think.

The problem with any third faction is if you pick smugglers they mostly all sided with the rebels. If you want black sun they were entrenched in the imperial court.

as i mentioned on the 2nd page that i really hate the vongs we still could see 2 big rebel like ships of em 2 mediuam ships and 1 fighter +1 one bomber type of fighter so we would have 6 vong products for the vong fans. even if i dont like em i would like to fight em . IF FFG brings em up as 4th faction after the pirates hit us hopefully man i want PIRATES DAMMIT !!