As my friends and I look into this game were also looking at expense to play and build army/squads. So the questions we need to ask of the community are,

What point cost does the average game clock in at? What model count of that point range?

What is the highest point cost game you've played and what was the model count?

we expect there to be a wide variance, but without the actually models/ basic pilot in craft xyz in front of us and the knowlage of the scale of the game guessing the level of expansion that becomes similar to warhammer apocolypse is nearly impossible.

The standard tournament game (and this most home games) is 100pts. This is usually 3-5 Rebel ships, and 5-7 Empire ships, though your numbers may vary.

I have played 300pt games where each side is fielding 10-15 ships.

The game is designed to have a smaller scope, though there will be an 'epic' play level that has yet to be officially given a pt range.

100 points is the tournament standard, and what most casual play is set at. That gives you anywhere from eight cheap TIE fighters to as few as two heavily upgraded ships. You can choose any point level you want, though. The game is really quite well balanced at pretty much any point value.

thanks guys, I personally was looking because I'd like to pick up *slowly* enough to play spam squads of pretty much every type of craft, on both sides within the tourney legal and perhaps a little over that(150-200). Being a 40k player 100 points is a number that feels awfully small but its remains to be seen.

your input is awesome. again thanks so much

thanks guys, I personally was looking because I'd like to pick up *slowly* enough to play spam squads of pretty much every type of craft, on both sides within the tourney legal and perhaps a little over that(150-200). Being a 40k player 100 points is a number that feels awfully small but its remains to be seen.

your input is awesome. again thanks so much

A well-played 100pt game will take anywhere from 45-90mins. Though I have a friend who lost a tournament match in 25mins.

Be aware that the scaling from there can get wonky. The less skilled you are, the greater time difference for each extra ship as you're not crunching a lot more pieces of data. However, if you're pretty familiar with war games, that may not be as big an issue for you.

thanks guys, I personally was looking because I'd like to pick up *slowly* enough to play spam squads of pretty much every type of craft, on both sides within the tourney legal and perhaps a little over that(150-200). Being a 40k player 100 points is a number that feels awfully small but its remains to be seen.

your input is awesome. again thanks so much

A well-played 100pt game will take anywhere from 45-90mins. Though I have a friend who lost a tournament match in 25mins.

Be aware that the scaling from there can get wonky. The less skilled you are, the greater time difference for each extra ship as you're not crunching a lot more pieces of data. However, if you're pretty familiar with war games, that may not be as big an issue for you.

I am a veteran war gamer so going big wont be hard, but its the base lists of "why would you do that?" that the hyper investigative in me is looking at.

now that I know base play is 100, its what fits in 100 points? bare min rookie X wing pilots or tie pilots with no upgrades of any kind, is a terrible list I'm sure, hell even a wings, bwings interceptors and defender spam lists with rookies and no upgrades are probably junk but its a start point.

I would say try 100 points first. It is really well balanced at that level and you get a lot of training for any official tournaments you might enter.

100 points also has that really nice effect of never-quite-enough for your perfect list. It adds tough decisions to your squad building instead of just throwing everything together with no real consideration.

I suppose theres probably not a reference document for point costs anywhere is there?

Look at the squad builders. Here's the one I like to use, but there are others out there.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build

As you can see, the cheapest ship is the TIE fighter, coming in at 12 points. And the most expensive ship is Han Solo in the YT-1300 (Millennium Falcon) at 46 points.

Look at the squad builders. Here's the one I like to use, but there are others out there.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build

As you can see, the cheapest ship is the TIE fighter, coming in at 12 points. And the most expensive ship is Han Solo in the YT-1300 (Millennium Falcon) at 46 points.

awesome, thank you so much.

so bare bones Imperial tie fighters noob squad is 8 models. tie advanced 4 models with wiggle room at 84 points. Interceptors with less room to breathe with 5 at 90. 6 bombers gives almost nothing at all with just 4 points under the 100 cap. just 3 defenders or phantoms is rough. 4 shuttles if you have that level of insanity in you, same wiggle room with the advanced(hrmm). 3 fire sprays no room in the points to breathe and a lot of hope, none of it new.

the rebels clock in at four rookie X wings at 84 points, room to breathe. 5 y wings give you just 10 points to make adjustments with. 5 prototype A wing pilots come in at 85 points, while just 4 B-wings fit in a list at 88. three E-wings fall into a miniature formation at 81 points. Whoa, 8 Z-95s? yeah, 96 points. 6 HWK-290s at 96 points. 3 YT-1300's are 81 (100 with han in one) and the transports are also just 3 with 10 points to spare, (again why would you do that?).

to my overly insane form of thinking, this means a max purchase of 33 imperial craft and 41 rebel craft to play any possible list in the 100 point limit, with currently available craft. long way off, but thats where goals start. And the galaxy that spawned this game.

As a relatively new player, my sig gives you everything I own, which shy of the Falcon let's me run quite a number of very solid lists.

Some of the ships you mentioned, have some other considerations in terms of on-field viability.

Bombers are pretty useless without ordnance, and Ywings/Hwk can be a challenge without a turret. Reason being the dial. A ships movement capacity has a lot to do with how well it can be utilized in a dog fight. Bombers, and the Hwk 290 move pretty terribly and are (without secondary weapons) not throwing much in the way of attack dice. (Note - the shuttle also suffers from this predicament)

OTOH - A wings and TIEs who might not be throwing many dice, can be so maneuverable that you'll get far more shots in than people will get against you. This makes them much more functional when barebones, compared to some other ships.

so bare bones Imperial tie fighters noob squad is 8 models. tie advanced 4 models with wiggle room at 84 points. Interceptors with less room to breathe with 5 at 90. 6 bombers gives almost nothing at all with just 4 points under the 100 cap. just 3 defenders or phantoms is rough. 4 shuttles if you have that level of insanity in you, same wiggle room with the advanced(hrmm). 3 fire sprays no room in the points to breathe and a lot of hope, none of it new.

the rebels clock in at four rookie X wings at 84 points, room to breathe. 5 y wings give you just 10 points to make adjustments with. 5 prototype A wing pilots come in at 85 points, while just 4 B-wings fit in a list at 88. three E-wings fall into a miniature formation at 81 points. Whoa, 8 Z-95s? yeah, 96 points. 6 HWK-290s at 96 points. 3 YT-1300's are 81 (100 with han in one) and the transports are also just 3 with 10 points to spare, (again why would you do that?).

to my overly insane form of thinking, this means a max purchase of 33 imperial craft and 41 rebel craft to play any possible list in the 100 point limit, with currently available craft. long way off, but thats where goals start. And the galaxy that spawned this game.

• Transports are not "legal" in a standard 100-point tournament game. They are usable in "epic" and "cinematic" modes, which have not been released yet. So 3 of them is probably overkill.
• Some ships will never be flown together in a spam list. 6 HWK-290s is crazy talk. Some of the others (shuttles, A-Wings, TIE/Advanced) might be fun to try once or twice in a spam list but will probably be dropped quickly to fit in balanced lists with other ships. So you won't need as many of them.

so bare bones Imperial tie fighters noob squad is 8 models. tie advanced 4 models with wiggle room at 84 points. Interceptors with less room to breathe with 5 at 90. 6 bombers gives almost nothing at all with just 4 points under the 100 cap. just 3 defenders or phantoms is rough. 4 shuttles if you have that level of insanity in you, same wiggle room with the advanced(hrmm). 3 fire sprays no room in the points to breathe and a lot of hope, none of it new.

the rebels clock in at four rookie X wings at 84 points, room to breathe. 5 y wings give you just 10 points to make adjustments with. 5 prototype A wing pilots come in at 85 points, while just 4 B-wings fit in a list at 88. three E-wings fall into a miniature formation at 81 points. Whoa, 8 Z-95s? yeah, 96 points. 6 HWK-290s at 96 points. 3 YT-1300's are 81 (100 with han in one) and the transports are also just 3 with 10 points to spare, (again why would you do that?).

to my overly insane form of thinking, this means a max purchase of 33 imperial craft and 41 rebel craft to play any possible list in the 100 point limit, with currently available craft. long way off, but thats where goals start. And the galaxy that spawned this game.

I'm gonna give you the crash course.

I'd recommend moving away from the idea that all like-ship or like-pilot lists are always the best idea. Mix it up a little. Not too much, but a little. 4 Rookies is good, 4 Reds is better, 3 Rookies and an Ace is best. 8 TIE fighters gives you a lot of highly agile targets, but you'll find it lacks firepower. Any TIE swarm has Howlrunner in it, who has the best support ability in the game. Howlrunner increases the hit average of your TIE fighters substantially. Also, I would definitely not call a TIE swarm in ANY FORM a noob-squad. It will prove VERY hard for a new player to navigate a tight formation well. It comes with practice.

You mentioned the 3 Bounty Hunter list. I WOULD recommend this for a new player. This list is actually quite powerful due to its high durability, and the backwards firing arc makes them quite versatile. You also mentioned 4 TIE Advanced. You will quickly find that the only time that is worth fielding a TIE Advanced is with Darth Vader. All the other pilots are notably weak, and Vader is even a little pricey due to his weak craft. 4 B-wings can be quite good, I'd say B-wings are the most powerful close range small base in the game. Give them all Advanced Sensors. You will never hit asteroids again, and it really helps with the B-wing's wealth (curse) of red maneuvers. The World-Champion list this past year was 2 Bs and 2 Xs. (Biggs, 2 Daggers with Advanced Sensors, and a Rookie). 3 YT's are quite durable, but the 2 attack on the basic YT is quite weak. Try Han Solo with some upgrades (Recommend Marksmanship, Gunner, Chewbacca) and 2 Rookie X-wings. Bombers are fun, too, with their heavy ordnance style. The Key with Bombers is the alpha strike. Try Jonus and 3 Scimitars, each with Assault Missiles and Seismic Charges. Also recommend Swarm Tactics on Jonus there. A-wings are pretty weak in groups, they are best for single blockers or flankers. Y-wings are best with Ion Turrets, but 4 of them with Ions makes you pretty weak offensively. Fly Dutch with an Ion turret next to an Ace X-wing or a B-wing. HWKs are also weak without turrets and a crew upgrade like Recon Specialist or Nien Nunb. Most players like Kyle the best, I prefer Roark or Jan, but Jan is expensive. 4 Shuttles gives you the most hit points possible at 100 squad points, but they turn like dogs. You'll have one powerful turn, then they'll get behind you and fly circles around you. Try one Shuttle with either Darth Vader or Gunner+Fire Control System. Interceptors are difficult for beginners because they are designed for Arc Dodging. Soontir and Turr Phennir are staples to flank with your Howlrunner TIE swarm. Soontir flies up or dances around behind the enemy and ROFLstomps, while Turr is good at jousting and getting out of the way. Imperial Aces also has some powerful options, especially Carnor Jax. In my experience, he is the best TIE swarm counter.

Okay, I think I covered all of the major things you mentioned as far as it what is released already. The next step is upgrades, which will take WAY longer. Hope this helps!

If you're looking for a completionist set, the following is what I would recommend

3 Core Sets (gets you 6 TIEs, 3 X wings, and plenty of dice/templates)*

1 X Wing (brings you to 4 total and gets you Wedge + Garven

2 TIE fighters (brings you up to 8 total and gets you Howlrunner, Backstabber, and Night Beast)

4 Y Wings (while you could run 5, there's very little reason to do so. 1 or 2 can be splashed into a rebel swarm without a turret, but you won't want to swarm Y wings without turrets)

2 TIE advanced (yes, you really only need 1 for Darth, and you could run 4... I find that 2 is the most I've (or anyone I know) has ever wanted to run even for S+Gs)

3 A wings (See Rebel aces below for comments)

3 YTs (ORS x3 is a fun trolling list for S+Gs)

Interceptors (See Imperial aces below for comments and quantities)

3 Firesprays (BH x3 is an awesome list, though you'll more likely find FS x2 + support better)

1 B wing (See Rebel aces below for comments)

2 HWKS (this is 100% a support ship. There is no reason to be running large quantities of this ship)

5 TIE bombers (You're really looking at 16+4 as the cheapest base price for a Bomber since there's little reason to run them without any ordnance)

3 Shuttles (Yes, you can fit in 4... And they can all have EU, but there are much better builds out there for shuttles (buzz saw and doom cow come to mind... If you find yourself really wanting that 4th, go for it)

Imperial Aces (So, if you don't care about proxying cards, I would get 2 interceptors and 1 imp ace. But due to the fact that you technically don't get alpha squadron pilots in Imp aces, if you want to have 100% of the cards, you need 5 Interceptor packages, and then 2 Imp Aces packages, totalling 9 interceptors, and you can only ever run 5 at a time)

Rebel Aces (So this comes with Chaardan refit (x2) that reduce the cost of an A wing by 2 points, putting the base A at 15, meaning you can run 6 of them if you have this card. So if you buy 3 packs, you get 6 cards and have 6 A wings and 4 B wings, the max you can run at 100 points, and you'll have all of the pilots possible for them too, but this isn't released yet, so you might want more A/B wings for now)

1 Transport (This comes with an X wing, which will be your 5th, but has unique pilots that you need. Beyond that, we have no clue what epic/cinematic play modes are going to be like, or what the point totals will be. This too isn't released)

1 Corvette (This is just speculation ship we know nothing about epic/cinematic play modes)

*You could reduce this to 2 core sets, and pick up 2 more TIE fighter expansions so when you buy the transport, you'll get your 4th X wing instead of your 5th.

If you're buying online (in America) from MiniMarket or something, it's $10 for small ships, $20 for big ships, and $40/60 for huge ships. So, the total would be $720, before W4 hits (which we don't fully know, but figure 8x Z95, 3x E wing, 3x TIE defender, 3-4?x TIE phantom) and adds $180 more. But again, this is if you bought absolutely 100% everything to cover any squad you would reasonably want to fly. If you wanted to go the extra step and say everything you COULD fly, you would have to add 2 more TIE advanced, 4 more HWKs, 1 Y, 1 more bomber and 1 shuttle for another $100... but there is ZERO reason to do that. And then go through and see about cards and make sure you have plenty of all of them, which you really shouldn't have a problem... Swarm Tactics would be the only thing I'd be concerned about, but I believe it comes in the TIE advanced as well, so you would have 4 from that, and 2 from the TIE fighters, for 6 total, which is the most you can run anyways.

Have they ever confirmed the Transport can't be used in Standard play? I see no reason it couldn't be...

Aminar - Transport and Corvette are Epic/Cinematic only. Some of the included cards will be legal for standard play though.

That seems unfortunate. Big ships look like quite a bit of fun. Even in 100 point games. And they're clearly meant to be balanced for the points.

Even in 100 point games. And they're clearly meant to be balanced for the points.

At 90 points for a 'naked' CR-90... I don't think it is balanced for the standard 100 point game. The transport however does seem like it could fit in one.

But just because they're limited to the epic rules, that doesn't mean they won't be used. I can see a lot of friendly games using the epic rules to include the CR-90/Transport.

I don't think the epic rules will be so drastically different that the core game will feel any different. The biggest change I see, is the inclusion of the Epic Format for Tournaments. Otherwise I think people will just break out the CR-90 and/or Transport and play with the epic rules, when they want to play with the big ships.

FYI, Engine25, 4 gold Ys and an ORS beats 4 shuttles in HP, 42 to 40 (assuming the shuttles use the remaining pts for engine upgrades). Shuttles can go to 44hp w/ shield or hull upgrades, if that's what you meant, but if all you care about is max HP then it's 4 naked shuttles and a scimitar bomber at 46HP

While you can play at any point value the I'll tell you the game is tuned to 100 points. I say that be if you just increase that total to say 105 or 110 you get a rush of options which were are not available at 100 points. A number of ships and combinations come it at something like 21 or even 26 points BY DESIGN as it keeps you from filling out a squad with those. Although the 'rules' may be the same the experience at 105 points may completely throw of your game if "restricted" to just 100 points.

While you can play at any point value the I'll tell you the game is tuned to 100 points. I say that be if you just increase that total to say 105 or 110 you get a rush of options which were are not available at 100 points. A number of ships and combinations come it at something like 21 or even 26 points BY DESIGN as it keeps you from filling out a squad with those. Although the 'rules' may be the same the experience at 105 points may completely throw of your game if "restricted" to just 100 points.

I doubt it. This happens at any point cost. Got between 120 and 130 and you get the same exact thing. More options. And 1010 and 1020.

I doubt it. This happens at any point cost.

No it's true. There are point values which are not quite balanced correctly. For example 48 is a really bad value to use for Rebels. X-Wings cost 21 points, but should actually only cost 20. They set them to 21 so you can't build a squad of 5 rookies.

100 points means you have to make hard choices about what ships and upgrades you can have. There's a pretty big difference between 100 and 105, you can upgrade rebel ships with extra stuff but can't really fit any more imperial ships in.

No it's true. There are point values which are not quite balanced correctly. For example 48 is a really bad value to use for Rebels. X-Wings cost 21 points, but should actually only cost 20. They set them to 21 so you can't build a squad of 5 rookies.

100 points means you have to make hard choices about what ships and upgrades you can have. There's a pretty big difference between 100 and 105, you can upgrade rebel ships with extra stuff but can't really fit any more imperial ships in.

Should only cost 20 points to YOU. You have no idea how they get the points that they do. Every mathematical formula on this board has holes in it so we still have no idea what the true format they use to price the ships at is. Yes it is probably true that they made it 21 points to stop people from running 5 in a squad, but its far from us to say the true value of a ship, because if it was meant to be 20 points that would mean they find that 4 rookies is not a sufficient force and that we really need 5 to make them worth while, but instead we have a 21 point ship that can then be augmented to equal it out to a even 100 points either by pilots or modifications.