I am sure this may have been covered, but I could not find it....

What do Imperial players think of modofied Tie swarms, such as running a swarm with engine mods or targeting computer?

A swarm with TC would get alot of free rerolls...

EM would allow the Ties an new maneuver, especially after the formation breaks down.

Any other ideas for an interesting mods to a Tie swarm... other than a named pilot?

Thanks, I am a semi new player looking for what people have tested....

if you are spending points on upgrades that are not hull or stealth, you are a lot better off simply upgrading the TIE into alpha TIEints

Targeting computer is redundant due to Howlrunner since you can only reroll a die once and Howlrunner doesn't require an action.

And Engine Upgrade - for the points, you're better off just playing an Interceptor at that point if you want boost.

There are some 6 TIE Swarms that do well with Interceptors, but part of the advantage of TIE Swarms is that they swarm, you play lots of expendable ships. Upgrading them is quite counter intuitive.

Targeting computer is redundant due to Howlrunner since you can only reroll a die once and Howlrunner doesn't require an action.

And Engine Upgrade - for the points, you're better off just playing an Interceptor at that point if you want boost.

There are some 6 TIE Swarms that do well with Interceptors, but part of the advantage of TIE Swarms is that they swarm, you play lots of expendable ships. Upgrading them is quite counter intuitive.

Admitting my ignorance, with targeting computer, are you saying you only roll one die? I have to recheck the rules...i. though youcould reroll up to the full roll.

Targeting computer is redundant due to Howlrunner since you can only reroll a die once and Howlrunner doesn't require an action.

And Engine Upgrade - for the points, you're better off just playing an Interceptor at that point if you want boost.

There are some 6 TIE Swarms that do well with Interceptors, but part of the advantage of TIE Swarms is that they swarm, you play lots of expendable ships. Upgrading them is quite counter intuitive.

Admitting my ignorance, with targeting computer, are you saying you only roll one die? I have to recheck the rules...i. though youcould reroll up to the full roll.

You can only re roll dice once.

For example, if you re roll using Howlrunner, that particular die can't be re rolled using TL. However, any dice not re rolled by Howlrunner's ability can be re rolled using TL.

No, you re roll 1 dice under Howlrunners ability. Taking any modification but stealth on any TIE is a waste.

The necessity to roll more than 1 die is minimal when you have a focus, never mind that you have to take an action to take target lock (so you're not focusing). Focus and target lock provide the same raw hit efficiency (and focus has the defensive possibility). Howlrunner acts as a pseudo-target lock allowing 1 die reroll (the amount of times i've left a blank on the table is very low playing a 7-TIE swarm).

I understand with Howlrunner but i tried to exclude her. Such as a Black Squadron swarm with targeting computers cannot be too shabby, lots of rerolls.

As to the above posts, is there a hirearchy to follow? Such as Black Squadron pilot rolls, misses twice, spends TC rerolls the two misses then uses Howelruner's ability? Or do special abilities come before TLock?

I understand with Howlrunner but i tried to exclude her. Such as a Black Squadron swarm with targeting computers cannot be too shabby, lots of rerolls.

As to the above posts, is there a hirearchy to follow? Such as Black Squadron pilot rolls, misses twice, spends TC rerolls the two misses then uses Howelruner's ability? Or do special abilities come before TLock?

If you rolled two blanks and then used the TL to re-roll those two blanks and STILL got nothing, you couldn't then use Howlrunner because that would mean re-rolling a die more than once.

Targeting computers are good, but not so much on a swarm where you can have Howl, who basically gives a TL AND lets you focus as well.

On the other hand 7 Targeting Computers are cheaper than Howlrunner(pointswise) and make choosing a target harder. Statistically Focus and TL are equal, but if you don't spend your target lock you can TL and focus the next turn. And a Focus will be a wasted action on a Tie that isn't fired on half the time(roughly) A Tl will only be wasted if the target dies(likely, but not too likely.) There are more rolls that TL is useful on than Focus as well.

Granted, the two points saved are only useable as an initiative bid. But 98 is a pretty good bid against other Tie Swarms.

I think the main points have been made:

1. Engine Upgrade: If you're spending 4 points on an Engine Upgrade (Academy + EU = 16 points) then just spend a couple more points for the extra die of damage from an Interceptor (Alpha = 18).

2. Targeting Computer: Target Lock is pretty redundant if you use Howlrunner. Almost no advantage to taking a TL action over a Focus. Even if you can buy a bunch of Targeting Computers cheaper than you can add Howlrunner remember she is also flying a ship which can shoot and take shots improving firepower herself and giving the opponent something else to shoot at.

3. You may be able to argue a Stealth Device, Hull or even Shield upgrade can be appropriate on certain ships but probably not on all ships.

Thank you for your input. As a newer player i learned alot. However if Howwlrunner is destroyed, the bonus is lost. Therefore TL on a bunch of Ties may be a viable alternative strategy... many targets vs one.

Again thanks..

A Target Computer Swarm and a Howlrunner Swarm are both 7 ships so you have the same firepower, you're just going to have it the whole game because there are 7 identical targets, not 1 big target with target written all over it and 6 identical not targets. It's a matter of taste(personally) and I would always pick Howlrunner as she always does well for me with ST and a Stealth Device.

A Target Computer Swarm and a Howlrunner Swarm are both 7 ships so you have the same firepower, you're just going to have it the whole game because there are 7 identical targets, not 1 big target with target written all over it and 6 identical not targets. It's a matter of taste(personally) and I would always pick Howlrunner as she always does well for me with ST and a Stealth Device.

It's not quite the same firepower, and you become a lot more fragile too. Here's why. Your 7 Tie swarm with TC all grab locks when they move in for the Alpha strike. Do you all pick the same target? Do you split your targets? You could end up wasting a few of you TL's because you already killed a ship. Also all your ships are more vulnerable to attack because you don't have a focus for defense.

With Howlrunner your 7 ship swarm moves in and every one focuses. Your ships are all better protected and those that don't need to spend there focus can spend it on attack with a reroll. A focus gives you about the same number of hits as a TL. Howlrunner lets you stack a focus with a reroll. There's a reason Howlrunner is one of the best pilots in the game.

TC on a AP is a waste. AP + Targeting Comp is not as good as a Black Squadron Pilot.

I have been toying with the idea of Mauler PTL and TC, 4 Black sqauad PTL and TC. all of the ships are fully independent and they don't need to fly in formation and can come in from every direction. It would only be for friendly games but I think it could be fun.

I understand with Howlrunner but i tried to exclude her. Such as a Black Squadron swarm with targeting computers cannot be too shabby, lots of rerolls.

5 Black squadron TIE with targeting computer and PTL = 95 points. I really would not advise such a list. You keep thinking more rerolls but honest;y you wont need every dice to be rerolled and your target lock will require your action. That is also assuming yiou will have range for TL and that your selected target will be within range/arc in the firing phase or that there will not be a better target selection. Meanwhile, Howlrunner allows 1 reroll for everyone in range and requires no action. Howlrunner and focus will beat TL every day, and cost less doing it.

Unless I'm firing ordnance, I never use TL on anything with only 2 attack dice. I choose a focus instead as it is more versatile.

My favorite swarm variants don't involve upgrading basic TIEs, but mixing named pilots or other ships. The six named TIE fighter pilots make a pretty consistently good list together, leaving 3 points for a Stealth Device on Howlrunner. Or you can do Howlrunner, 4 academies, and either Turr Phennir, Soontir or Carnor Jax with PtL and a Steal Device, a Bounty Hunter, possibly a defender when they release, a Lambda, or some other craft of your choosing.

The whole point of a TIE Swarm is to minimize the price you pay for each ship so you can have a lot of them. I can see why someone might want to put some upgrades on TIEs, but if you are flying a TIE swarm you want to minimize them. And if you do have upgrades they are usually just to keep Howelrunner alive.

Yeah Doublenot7 makes the biggest point, if you are using Academy Pilots their lowest of iniatives means they will be moving up waiting for the enemy to close to firing range with them often which will usually mean they can't even get target locks or who they target might not fly in a direction where they will still get to shoot them.

You can do a 6 Black Squad swarm with TC. At PS4 you won't always be moving last, and you're only down 1 Tie. Can even put a 1 point EPT on some of them, like determination or something.

May not be as good as a 6 AP + Howl swarm, but it's a decent alternative to the classic swarm. It does have the advantage of no one ship being such a huge target and when she's gone the damage output drops a lot.

A Target Computer Swarm and a Howlrunner Swarm are both 7 ships so you have the same firepower, you're just going to have it the whole game because there are 7 identical targets, not 1 big target with target written all over it and 6 identical not targets. It's a matter of taste(personally) and I would always pick Howlrunner as she always does well for me with ST and a Stealth Device.

I may have been off about the number of ships but AP+TC x7 is 98 points. For 99 points you can do Howl+DS, BSP+DTF(x2), AP(x4). Congratulations, you win initiative so enjoy moving first. Too bad none of my ships will be in range for you to TL on them so you've "wasted" 14 point on upgrades in that first round. I then move and Focus will all my ships. The firing starts and I get to go first allowing my three higher PS ships to shoot before you (I could have gone with Obsidians instead of the split I did but there was a reason for the BSP). My ships get to reroll one attack die it it misses and then I have my Focus to do with as I choose. After that your APs shoot then my APs shoot but get the Howlrunner reroll unless you've somehow gotten luck and taken her out over her SD, Focus token, and two BSP bodyguarding her from critical hits with DTF.

Next round you again get to move and luck for you my ships are in range so you get to TL with your action. Then get to go and if desired may adjustments to negate your TLs. When it's time to shoot things are pretty much like the were the first round although a number of your TLs will probably be wasted on invalid targets while you are also missing Focus tokens for defense.

There are many ways to "mix up" a TIE Swarm type of build but adding mods, especially Targeting Computers, is mostly a waste.

A Target Computer Swarm and a Howlrunner Swarm are both 7 ships so you have the same firepower, you're just going to have it the whole game because there are 7 identical targets, not 1 big target with target written all over it and 6 identical not targets. It's a matter of taste(personally) and I would always pick Howlrunner as she always does well for me with ST and a Stealth Device.

I may have been off about the number of ships but AP+TC x7 is 98 points. For 99 points you can do Howl+DS, BSP+DTF(x2), AP(x4). Congratulations, you win initiative so enjoy moving first. Too bad none of my ships will be in range for you to TL on them so you've "wasted" 14 point on upgrades in that first round. I then move and Focus will all my ships. The firing starts and I get to go first allowing my three higher PS ships to shoot before you (I could have gone with Obsidians instead of the split I did but there was a reason for the BSP). My ships get to reroll one attack die it it misses and then I have my Focus to do with as I choose. After that your APs shoot then my APs shoot but get the Howlrunner reroll unless you've somehow gotten luck and taken her out over her SD, Focus token, and two BSP bodyguarding her from critical hits with DTF.

Next round you again get to move and luck for you my ships are in range so you get to TL with your action. Then get to go and if desired may adjustments to negate your TLs. When it's time to shoot things are pretty much like the were the first round although a number of your TLs will probably be wasted on invalid targets while you are also missing Focus tokens for defense.

There are many ways to "mix up" a TIE Swarm type of build but adding mods, especially Targeting Computers, is mostly a waste.

In general TL and Focus gives you the same number of hits, TL will give you a slight edge with critical hits, but it's not much. This math has been done. So TL is not superior to Focus when it comes to damage output.

Focus can also be used for defense so your ships last longer.

Is 6 Targeting computers better then 1 Tie Fighter? I don't think so.

TL's can be used more often. They are statistically the same if you use one every turn. On a Tie Fighter you use on every 2 attacks. A TL is useful on twice as many rolls, and if it isn't used it allows for TL Focus the next turn.

That is the definition of offensively superior.

TL's can be used more often. They are statistically the same if you use one every turn. On a Tie Fighter you use on every 2 attacks. A TL is useful on twice as many rolls, and if it isn't used it allows for TL Focus the next turn.

That is the definition of offensively superior.

With Howlrunner you can stack a reroll and a focus every turn. I think that's superior to TL + Maybe a focus every other turn at best. Also when you pick a Target Lock your ship has no action to help with defense, and if your using APs then your going to lose ships before you get to use that TL.

Howlrunner is Better then a bunch of Targeting Computers because of the flexibility of attacks. If you get some lucky hits in and kill a ship quickly you can then focus on another ship and still have the same offensive output. If you are using TLs and you kill a ship quickly you then lose the rest of your locks, and now your ships offense is just dice with no modifications at this point.

The Howlrunner is swarm is a Proven squad. I don't see Targeting Comps bringing that much to the swarm. I would rather have 1 more ship then 6 targeting computers.