Decloaking isn't a card effect; it's more akin to spending a focus token. Could Garvin spend multiple focus tokens on one attack?

Lots of phantoms are going to start the game with a 1 hard turn facing the middle, BR, Cloak up and just crab walk sideways till behind the opposition.

Crab walking stealth ships. Well, it's fitting.

The Autoblaster is the definite counter to cloaking, as the extra defense dice afford by the increased agility are moot. And on the flip side, any craft with and autoblaster (currently only B-wings) will become priority targets.

RogueMorgan

Autoblaster is range 1. Given the Phantom's ludicrous mobility, not exactly a range the B-wing will find its target in often.

As I posted, if you take Ten Numb - AutoBlaster - Push the Limit - Advanced Sensors - Engine Upgrade = A B-wing with the same ability to maneuver as a Tie Fighter. You could take Ibtisam and use the stress token to your advantage as well. But with Ten Number if you roll 3 hits and 1 crit. The enemy won't be able to cancel any of them without a Evade Token. Which means it can do this setup.

1. Before reveal Maneuver Dial activate Advanced Sensors

2. Barrel Roll or Boost Action

3. Trigger PtL and take second Action. (Be it the Boost/Barrel roll you didn't take in step two. Maybe focus/target lock)

4. Assign Stress Token

5. Reveal Maneuver Dial

You pull off this maneuver when you know you need to close in to the Tie Phantom and since Ten Numb is higher PS. He WILL shoot the Tie Phantom before it can recloak after attacking, if it takes Advanced Cloaking Device.

I suppose that would work, but that's, what, a 46 point hard-counter? One that, with an agility of 1 and 8 THP, actually has a decent chance of getting blown to pieces by focus fire on range 3?

I mean, yeah, it works, but it's not exactly a counter that's going to make me run for the hills.

The combination of Z-95s, cheaper A-wings, and new pilots for Rebel ships meant that Rebel players (a concept I still don't totally get)

Easy. Money has little to do with it. Some people just like the look and feel of the ships better, or the fluff behind those ships, or the faction they're from. Others are part of gaming groups which form two sides for thematic gameplay.

Me, for example, I'm an Imperial player. Not for monetary reasons, but because the majority of the Star Wars games out there focus on the Rebel side of things (even the new FFG RPG is more focused on being a Rebel, giving very few handholds for people wishing to play an Imperial campaign). I've played Rebels so often that I relish every chance I can get my hands on to play on the side of the Empire for a change.

you're only going to reveal your maneuver once, so you can't trigger decloak off of it twice.

I agree, you can't decloak, cloak and then decloak again in the same turn. By the time you can cloak you've already revealed your dial and gone on do do other things.

Not if you use Advanced Sensors, which lets you use an action before you reveal your movement dice. So you decloak, cloak by using advanced sensors, then decloak again since it's a token expenditure. And token expenditures can be done as many times as you have tokens (for example: having two target locks -weapons engineer, ho!-, and using one to fire a missile while using the other to reroll blanks).

You can't have two target locks on the same target.

Not if you use Advanced Sensors, which lets you use an action before you reveal your movement dice.

And as CW pointed out, the FAQ says this.

Q: Can a card effect be used as many times as desired when a ship has the opportunity to use it?

A: No. A card effect can be used once per opportunity

So it seems pretty clear to me that you can't decloak twice in the same turn.

Not if you use Advanced Sensors, which lets you use an action before you reveal your movement dice.

But you can only use a given trigger once. You can't use 5 focus tokens during one attack.

And as CW pointed out, the FAQ says this.

Q: Can a card effect be used as many times as desired when a ship has the opportunity to use it?

A: No. A card effect can be used once per opportunity

So it seems pretty clear to me that you can't decloak twice in the same turn.

Yeah card effect. Which means you can't use Advanced Sensors twice. But decloaking is a token action. And tokens can be used as many times as you have them. It's just that using five focus tokens has no effect, but how about two evade tokens? Even without Advanced Sensor shenanigans, a Phantom with SPA can get two, even three evade tokens quite easily. Wait, wouldn't work. SPA was a free evade action, not an evade token.

You can't have two target locks on the same target.

Weapons engineer says you may lock on to two different ships, which means you can also lock on the same one. But it was just an example of multiple token expending.

I'm willing to bet FFG is going to rule that you can't Decloak more than once a turn. It makes sense to me. It may not to others, but that is par for course for FFG rulings.

@ keroko

The thing is, at range 3 the B-wing gets 2 defense dice. Plus with the added movement, it could get out of the line of fire easier. Throw in that it wouldn't be flying alone, maybe with another B-wing with Ion Cannon. Meant to Ionize the Phantom and other Tie Fighters so that Ten Numb can nuke them. I admit it is risky, and based on dice rolls won't work, but that is the fun of it.

Plus if they are taking an equally expensive 35+ point model out, nothing wrong to take a counter for it. The build overall helps the B-wing last longer, and can be used against anyone. If you want to go cheap, just get Lt.Blount with Ion Missiles, and a couple X-wings. Blount ionizes the Phantom so that the other ships can focus fire him since he wouldn't be able to move very far.

I suppose you could also just deck a pair of Green Squadron Pilots in PtL and Cluster/Homing missiles. Line up some shots and slam them into the Phantom whether it is cloaked or not. But I figured go for something fun and gutsy. Wedge is also still a good counter, provided he gets into shot range, because he can strip one more Agility away. Leaving it with 3 while cloaked, when shooting it.

Plus if they are taking an equally expensive 35+ point model out, nothing wrong to take a counter for it.

Oh, it is. Don't get me wrong, they're all good counters. Just... not the doom of Phantoms before they've even taken off, which is what the earlier autoblaster post seemed to be suggesting.

These counters seem like fun in how they could spell the doom for my Phantom Fleet in the hands of a good player, if I fly well enough I can counter your counter as well.

There is no doom of phantoms but there are hard counters to it. For instance ionization became a lot more powerful on a phantom. You just prevented 1/3 of an imperial list from attacking or taking any maneuvers or actions. Ions were good before but nasty vs phantoms. Stress neuter phantom for a turn. The phantom is a cool ship, but it's balanced and it's similar to an interceptor with stealth

(only 1 per enemy ship)

BTW, it hasn't been officially spoiled yet but Decoy from the Z-95 expansion, according to a zoom in read, says you can switch your pilot skill with a friendly ship's at the beginning of the combat phase.

Combine that with enhanced scopes, veteran instincts, and the TIE Phantom has a lot of options as to when to fire. Messing with PS seems to be bigger deal this time out, imagine firing in a different order every round? Your opponent is suddenly faced with equal threat in every situation.

You can't have two target locks on the same target.

Weapons engineer says you may lock on to two different ships, which means you can also lock on the same one. But it was just an example of multiple token expending.

(only 1 per enemy ship)

I am a blind idiot today. Thanks for the correct. Still, the main point was that multiple tokens can be expended in the same turn, and since decloaking is not an action but merely requires a cloak token, there is little that points against decloak, advanced sensors, cloak, decloak not being possible.

You can't have two target locks on the same target.

Weapons engineer says you may lock on to two different ships, which means you can also lock on the same one. But it was just an example of multiple token expending.

(only 1 per enemy ship)

I am a blind idiot today. Thanks for the correct. Still, the main point was that multiple tokens can be expended in the same turn, and since decloaking is not an action but merely requires a cloak token, there is little that points against decloak, advanced sensors, cloak, decloak not being possible.

It looks to me like it would be possible (I bet it gets FAQ'ed as not being possible), You would not be able to recloak during that turn, though.

How is it not a card effect? The cards for Cloak and Decloak just got spoiled this morning.

It looks to me like it would be possible (I bet it gets FAQ'ed as not being possible), You would not be able to recloak during that turn, though.

Well, no. One action of a type a turn, that's where the fun ends.

How is it not a card effect? The cards for Cloak and Decloak just got spoiled this morning.

IDK... this one might need clarifying.. lol

Playing devils advocate here.. lol

It doesn't say "Upgrade card" effects....

And that definition wouldn't work anyway because it would have to cover at least upgrade and pilot cards.

Isn't that the implied thought with 'card effect'

Isn't that the implied thought with 'card effect'

Implied is a dangerous word to use when interpreting rules, as it is a statement of subjectivity.

Look at it another way - Boost or Barrel roll are both covered on rule cards, right? Is anyone arguing that they are not covered under the rule about 'card effects' only being allowed once per trigger?

Plus if they are taking an equally expensive 35+ point model out, nothing wrong to take a counter for it.

Oh, it is. Don't get me wrong, they're all good counters. Just... not the doom of Phantoms before they've even taken off, which is what the earlier autoblaster post seemed to be suggesting.

These counters seem like fun in how they could spell the doom for my Phantom Fleet in the hands of a good player, if I fly well enough I can counter your counter as well.

Oh that is what I'm hoping for, counters for my counters. I've been thinking about fun ideas for the Phantom as well, in order to counter my own idea. Lots of fun brainstorming, to be had with these speculations.

Isn't that the implied thought with 'card effect'

Implied is a dangerous word to use when interpreting rules, as it is a statement of subjectivity.

Look at it another way - Boost or Barrel roll are both covered on rule cards, right? Is anyone arguing that they are not covered under the rule about 'card effects' only being allowed once per trigger?

But Fire Control System and Gunner allow you to target lock the same ship multiple times.

Barrel roll is covered in the rule book, not a rule card. I think it would be pretty odd if different rules applied to core rulebook action interactions than expansion action interactions.

Isn't that the implied thought with 'card effect'

Implied is a dangerous word to use when interpreting rules, as it is a statement of subjectivity.

Look at it another way - Boost or Barrel roll are both covered on rule cards, right? Is anyone arguing that they are not covered under the rule about 'card effects' only being allowed once per trigger?

Boost and Barrel Roll are covered under the rules for not performing two of the same action in one turn, not the rule about using the same card effect only once per turn. If a card came up that allowed a free boost or barrel roll and didn't specify that they were actions, you would be able to use them multiple times per turn. Spending a cloak token to decloak is not an action though and falls under the same rules for spending multiple focus tokens per turn. If you have two focus tokens from Recon Specialist you can spend one to attack and another to defend. Same deal with cloak tokens.

Isn't that the implied thought with 'card effect'

Isn't that the implied thought with 'card effect'

Rules cards are not cards. They are additions to the rulebook. The Faq entry applies to upgrade cards and pilot cards with triggers. The rules Card is none of those things.

Says who?