Exactly. The game should provide enough reason to decloak that you should never want to remain cloaked for more than a turn or two. Again, the purpose of cloaking is NOT to evade fire and never was. It is a way to position your ship to make the most damaging attack.

Positioning your ship for the most damaging attack is the purpose of de cloaking by current rules. What then is the point of cloaking?

Exactly. The game should provide enough reason to decloak that you should never want to remain cloaked for more than a turn or two. Again, the purpose of cloaking is NOT to evade fire and never was. It is a way to position your ship to make the most damaging attack.

Positioning your ship for the most damaging attack is the purpose of de cloaking by current rules. What then is the point of cloaking?

To allow yourself a momentary reprieve from incoming fire. Emphasis on momentary . You cloak, spend a round or two maneuvering, uncloak, move into range 1 with the boost/roll function, and blast away. The goal was never to be cloaked for any significant part of the game. You cloak to reap the benefit of the extra evasion AND the free movement from the uncloak.

Exactly. The game should provide enough reason to decloak that you should never want to remain cloaked for more than a turn or two. Again, the purpose of cloaking is NOT to evade fire and never was. It is a way to position your ship to make the most damaging attack.

Positioning your ship for the most damaging attack is the purpose of de cloaking by current rules. What then is the point of cloaking?

Whats the point of target locking someone if you have to spend it to reroll misses?

Your problem is that you see them as two separate actions where in reality its one action with two states. You cloak because you get the free movement. The +2 dice is just gravy.

It's a good ship even if it has a mediocre dial. The benefit of cloaking and decloaking pretty much outweighs taking any other action which is why whispers free focus is pretty great. However this ship relys on it's ability to constantly take the cloak action without that it's a 4/2/2/2 ship. Ion or stress is the way to cripple this ship. I'm glad it didn't lose cloak token when hit or this ship would of been worse then a interceptor with stealth.

I like this ship a lot mostly because the named pilot improves this ship a lot, PS is more important for it and it's one of the only small base ships worth upgrading. Overall this ship looks like it will be worth a third of your points.

It's been clear since it was spoiled that cloak prevented you from attacking that you were going to spend as much time as possible not cloaked, because spending 25-40% of your points on a single ship is already a risk, and it's an even bigger risk if that ship only attacks once every three or four rounds.

You want to attack as often as possible, which means players should already be biased toward decloaking--if you have a good shot. If you don't have a good shot, you stay cloaked and do what any other ship would do, which is focus or evade and hope your dice don't fail you. Except that the Phantom, in that situation, gets two more dice than it normally would (and one more die than any ship normally would).

So I don't understand how the system of benefits here isn't a good thing. You already wanted to decloak as often as possible, in order to attack as often as possible, and you're still going to want to be cloaked whenever you expect concentrated enemy fire. Decloaking gives you lots of unexpected arcs and angles for attacking, and cloaking gives you a lot of dice to work with. Cloaking doesn't replace a defensive action (focus or evade), but you've got two different modifications that work with cloak to produce very different effects that counteract exactly the criticism you're making.

People will still often decloak when not having the perfect shot, because decloaking gives them a rather sweet move in three different directions. Staying cloaked does not.

Again, my point isn't that there should be reason to decloak, but that there's literally zero reason to stay cloaked. What's the point of a new mechanic if we're going to see half of it as that minor inconvenience we have to get through to get to the good part?

You cant attack when you are cloaked. Unless one of the named pilots does silly things like hands out target locks, + PS buffs, + R/G Dice or focus tokens .... WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BE CLOAKED FOR ANY EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME?

With the current cloaking system? There's no reason to remain cloaked at all. And that's my main problem. Decloaking got sweet, sweet movement buffs. Why not something for staying cloaked? Something like, while cloaked can't be target locked or tokens can't be used against the cloaked ship. That'd actually make you analyse the situation and think about the risks of decloaking versus the possible reward of taking down a certain ship.

To allow yourself a momentary reprieve from incoming fire. Emphasis on momentary . You cloak, spend a round or two maneuvering, uncloak, move into range 1 with the boost/roll function, and blast away. The goal was never to be cloaked for any significant part of the game. You cloak to reap the benefit of the extra evasion AND the free movement from the uncloak.

Exactly! To allow yourself a momentary reprieve of incoming enemy fire. But with the huge bonuses gained from decloaking, especially with upgrades, cloaking even loses that advantage. Decloaking gives you even better manoeuvrability, and with SPA the same level of defence.

Right now cloaking is just "that thing you do so you can decloak." And that's... a shame.

This +1

With the current cloaking system? There's no reason to remain cloaked at all. And that's my main problem. Decloaking got sweet, sweet movement buffs. Why not something for staying cloaked? Something like, while cloaked can't be target locked or tokens can't be used against the cloaked ship. That'd actually make you analyse the situation and think about the risks of decloaking versus the possible reward of taking down a certain ship.

I understand the decloaking will be great... but... don't understand the fluff if you stay cloacked... in my mind if I am cloak, I'm invisible to other ships... this is not the case if you remain cloaked, it is like if the cloak system has a malfunction and you just blink on the space and that's allow other ships to target you.... weird...

What are you talking about? You aren't making any sense to me. If you want the benefits and also want to remain cloaked, just do it.

Before revealing dial, decloak and get the bonus. Perform your maneuver, then cloak back up.

Nobody else has moved or shot or done anything, your ship is the only one activating. It might seem a little strange mechanically, but your ship is able to get its free "decloak move" and still remain cloaked. You effectively "stay" cloaked, but you have enormous options for movement. The only concern you have is that you need to ensure you don't bump anything or cross an obstacle, things which fluff wise make sense "interfering" with cloak.

It really is a direct comparison to Target Lock. It's like complaining that you only have incentive to spend a target lock, not to get one. Or better yet, Focus, since it does absolutely nothing until you spend it. "Cloaking" involves spending an action, then spending the token at a later time.

Edit: As for other ships being able to fire and/or target lock you.

If you want fluff, then you should understand that no matter how good your cloaking system is it doesn't exist in a vacuum (except in the literal sense, lol). For all your high-tech electronics and materials used to make the Phantom invisible, the enemy has a suite of high-tech electronics and systems designed to make it visible. The net effect is unlikely to be complete and utter invisibility, and unlikely to be perfect visibility. In fact, all ships would be equipped with sensors, ECM and ECCM in order to maximize their ability to survive and locate the enemy, the Phantom just happens to be much more effective at hiding than other ships. Plus, you could be flying something so high-tech it might as well be a hole in the universe and some joker with a Jedi spirit guide will still fire a proton torpedo right up your exhaust port.

What are you talking about? You aren't making any sense to me. If you want the benefits and also want to remain cloaked, just do it.

Before revealing dial, decloak and get the bonus. Perform your maneuver, then cloak back up.

That.... is an excellent point. And I feel stupid for not realizing that before.

I will just go back to admiring the Phantom now.

This worries me. I love manueverable ships, and so this whole cloak thing looks incredibly fun. Unfortunatly, much like the Interceptor, I think it will cost too much for the points. I expect Whisper to cost 30 points, plus 2-3 for advanced cloaking, and 1 for vet instincts. Plus 2 more for FCS, as it will be the best way to assure high damage and you're looking at nearly the same cost as a full Buzzsaw Colonel Jendon with none of the durability. Positioning is great, but the minute Han Chewie or Lando hit the table it means next to nothing... If you have a weakness in your squad that big you can't expect reliable results... Sure, the Falcon isn't going to one sht you like an Interceptor, but it's still not where I want a ship to be.

On the other hand these ships are certainly trying to make High PS worth the points. Still buying two.

This worries me. I love manueverable ships, and so this whole cloak thing looks incredibly fun. Unfortunatly, much like the Interceptor, I think it will cost too much for the points. I expect Whisper to cost 30 points, plus 2-3 for advanced cloaking, and 1 for vet instincts. Plus 2 more for FCS, as it will be the best way to assure high damage and you're looking at nearly the same cost as a full Buzzsaw Colonel Jendon with none of the durability. Positioning is great, but the minute Han Chewie or Lando hit the table it means next to nothing... If you have a weakness in your squad that big you can't expect reliable results... Sure, the Falcon isn't going to one sht you like an Interceptor, but it's still not where I want a ship to be.

On the other hand these ships are certainly trying to make High PS worth the points. Still buying two.

Whisper is 32 stock. So yes, expensive. But you get a goddamn sharp scissor for it, what with 4 attacks and all. If you get lucky, you can one-shot X-wings at range 1. A-wings from range 3. Given that HLC's usually cost seven points, are range 2-3 and can't crit, that's nothing to sneeze at.

I hope one of the upgrades prevents beeing TL'ed while cloaked...

... but anyway ...

THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING SHIP, INDEED

Yipes... 32. That's a point less than a Bounty Hunter... If the Phantom doesn't have white/green ones across the board on the dial I will be very sad. (On the other hand, that would make it my favorite ship to fly...)

Curious had the Stygium card been spoiled as well?

By using NCIS-style Zoom and Enhance™, yes, we know what it does:

Stygium Particle Accelerator

Modification.

When you either decloak or perform a cloak action, you may perform 1 free evade action. (2 points)

Oh man, I'm really hoping it has a white 1-hard turn. Starting on the left side of an enemy ship, only to cloak 2, barrel roll, then hard-1 just to the right side of that ship will all cannon's pointing at them..... Oh ya this will be fun.

Shame that TL still works through cloak, doesn't seem a little fluffy for a couple ships to instantly TL a ship they 'can't see' and immediately blow it away with missiles (two Ordnance should take it out in short order, unless the green dice are really hot).

I am definitely looking forward to flying Whisper. Though with the decloak options I can see actually taking the lower pilot skill phantoms now where before I couldn't fathom their use. Set up straight across from your opponent and just off center move 3-5 straight towards them and cloak next turn decloak and either K turn behind them or decloak move to the side and do a 2 hard turn towards them. Whisper and the PS5 pilot I will probably run with advanced cloak the PS1s stygian particle accelerator

Oh man, I'm really hoping it has a white 1-hard turn. Starting on the left side of an enemy ship, only to cloak 2, barrel roll, then hard-1 just to the right side of that ship will all cannon's pointing at them..... Oh ya this will be fun.

It does.

There's plenty of incentive to stay cloaked: you get base agility that no other ship can match. FIVE green dice at range 3! Keroko, I think you're thinking too much about what this ship's cloaking ability means to itself and not enough about what it does to influence the tactical situation on the map.

A Phantom will be the ultimate divide and conqure ship. Don't fly it in formation; use it as a pure flanker. If you're opponent doesn't split forces to deal with it, you'll be able to use the decloak/cloak/decloak to stay basically unhittable until you are doing up-the-kilt shots with 5 dice and focus.

And if they do divide up to deal with the Phantom, it is still going to be able to dance around and stay cloaked and just kite ships off to the other side of the map, letting you fight it out with superior numbers.

I'm mind-blown. This will be so fun to fly:

1. Decloak and barrel roll using the 2 straight.

2. Move normally

3. Barrel roll as action.

The ship has so many potential places to show up.

It can take Advanced Sensors, as well--so you could actually decloak, barrel roll, THEN execute your maneuver.

Someone needs to make another map of all possible resulting firing arcs. .

Let's see, Whisper with Engine Upgrade, PTL and Adv Sensors.

Decloak

Move 2 forward, left or right (let's not yet bring in the shifting barrel rolls).

Move (depending on dial, I'm hoping now for a full stop as well, nastiness!)

barrel roll in either of 2 directions

boost in either of 3 directions

Or:

Decloak

Move effect

barrel roll

boost

move

or

decloak

move effect

boost

barrel roll

move

or

Don't decloak

or

or

Possibilities? There's... too many of 'em!

Don't forget the option to boost/barrel roll first and decloak second...

Don't forget the option to boost/barrel roll first and decloak second...

Oh, yeah, how does that stack with adv. Sensors?

Don't forget the option to boost/barrel roll first and decloak second...

Oh, yeah, how does that stack with adv. Sensors?

Both say that you resolve them immediately before revealing the dial, so you get to choose the order.

Don't forget the option to boost/barrel roll first and decloak second...

Oh, yeah, how does that stack with adv. Sensors?

Both advanced sensors and decloak trigger immediately before revealing the maneuver.

1) You are about to reveal your maneuver. Don't do it yet.

2) Trigger both decloak and advanced sensors.

3) Choose to resolve advanced sensors first and decloak second. (1)

4) Perform action from advanced sensors. (boost/EU)

5) Trigger PTL.

6) Perform action from PTL. (barrel roll)

7) Receive stress from PTL.

8) Resolve decloak. (triggered in step 2)

9) Reveal maneuver. (hopefully not red)

10) Execute maneuver.

11) If the maneuver is green, remove stress.

(1) FAQ:

Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve at the same time, can he resolve them in any order?

A: Yes.

If, as a phantom, you're afraid of getting boxed in, you can always take the enhanced scopes and move first.

I can see Whisper going: decloak, get into range 1 of something, expose as an action (nice and fluffy, the phantom decloaking to expose nherself), tear into something for six dice, cloak thanks to ACP, focus thanks to innate talent and do the same thing next turn, only focused.

And that's without any support vessels...

I think the extra movement with decloaking is a gift. You stay cloaked, turn in toward the target around range 3, decloak, which let's you keep them in your arc or close distance down to range 1, then hammer time. Defensively, it's going to be hard to anticipate where he will be, and getting out of firing arcs by sliding left or right then turning in on them will be awesome. This with Intel on a high PL will be worth every Point. Cloak, flank, turn in, get 2 free forward boost, closing range, then maneuver. I love it!

I can see Whisper going: decloak, get into range 1 of something, expose as an action (nice and fluffy, the phantom decloaking to expose nherself), tear into something for six dice, ...

I'd rather focus instead of expose. 5 dice + focus result in more damage than 6 dice without.

... cloak thanks to ACP, focus thanks to innate talent and do the same thing next turn, only focused.

That focus token gets removed at the end of the round. It is useful for defense only. Next round you need to choose between expose and focus. Focus results in more damage. See above.

Don't forget the option to boost/barrel roll first and decloak second...

Oh, yeah, how does that stack with adv. Sensors?

Both advanced sensors and decloak trigger immediately before revealing the maneuver.

4) Perform action from advanced sensors. (boost/EU)

5) Trigger PTL.

6) Perform action from PTL. (barrel roll)

7) Receive stress from PTL.

8) Resolve decloak. (triggered in step 2)

9) Reveal maneuver. (hopefully not red)

Just the barrel rolls alone will be like a 4 --> or <-- (if you keep barrel rolling one way)

Trying to figure out where a Phantom ends up is nigh impossible, keeping track of two will give you headaches and in a mirror match...