I have an etiquette question here over which I had a discussion with an opponent at a tournament yesterday.

What exactly is covered by "abusing an infinite combo" (as unsportsmanlike conduct)?

My opponent claimed that deliberately colliding with my own ships would be unsportsmanlike conduct and that I would have to resolve simultaneous movements in an order that would result in a minimum number of collisions.

The situation for context is:

I played an 8 TIE swarm and after the "merge", when both swarms/fleets meet, I do like to actually stop my ships with deliberate collisions in order to have them stay put at good positions, e.g. I give a TIE fighter a maneuver template that will not move them a lot or sometimes not even all, they forfeit their action but stay in good firing position.

I do not see that as "unsportsmanlike conduct" for two reasons:

1) In my opinion I am "paying" with my lost action.

2) In this scenario it is hardly an "infinite combo", as the cluster of merged and tight-packed TIEs will usually dissolve after one or two turns, so it is not "infinite". (Although there might be cases of real infinite jamming, which I have not yet encountered but can imagine).

I never saw it as unsportsmanlike conduct and loved the possibility to plan simultaneous movements in this manner.

I would love to hear your opinions on that.

Thanks.

Your opponent seems to have a strange definition of "infinite", although I'll admit it can feel that way when playing a swarm some times

But no, there is nothing unsportsmanlike about using your own ships to generate collisions. It's actually a very standard tactic in a lot of different situations.

Hrm. Mere italics don't seem quite enough. Let me try that again:

There is NOTHING unsportsmanlike about using your own ships to generate collisions.

That infinite combo rule is in there so that no one can use a set of card upgrades and pilot abilities in a way that the designers may not have foreseen and pull off a game unbalancing effect.

An example of one that I was exploring a while back was seeing if using Yorr and Elusiveness to gain more than one reroll attempt on the attackers dice roll. That has since been FAQ'd and limited to one use only, and I think may be the underlay on why Yorr's ability may have been straightjacketed so that all the abilities that involve stress as a limiter would not suddenly jump in power for the Empire (PTL, Soontir Fell, Elusiveness, Opportunist, and soon to be others).

As for the OP, using your ships as blockers is a completely valid strategy. It is well known that Swarms clog up flying lanes and cause action denial. There are strategies that can be deployed around this tactic but it is NOT an infinite combo that falls under the unsportsmanlike rule.

Agreed. Maneuvering your ships to collide in order to "stay in place" is not an infinite combo.

Thanks for your replies. I just wanted to be absolutely on the safe and sportsmanlike side.

Your opponent seems to have a strange definition of "infinite", although I'll admit it can feel that way when playing a swarm some times

But no, there is nothing unsportsmanlike about using your own ships to generate collisions. It's actually a very standard tactic in a lot of different situations.

Hrm. Mere italics don't seem quite enough. Let me try that again:

There is NOTHING unsportsmanlike about using your own ships to generate collisions.

I agree although I normally don't like playing against it.

In our friendly games we make anyone who causes a collision must roll a Red attack dice and takes what every damage rolled.

In our friendly games we make anyone who causes a collision must roll a Red attack dice and takes what every damage rolled.

Seriously?

You do know that we are representing fighting in 3D on a two-dimensional board? "Collisions" are actually the pilots going over/under one-another.

You are penalizing a BIG tactical part of the game.

One ot the strongest uses of planned overlap is in the YT fortress build. In this build one takes two YT's and places them at start up facing each other and touching. Then you always select 1 forward as the movements which locks the ships in place and forces your opponent to come to you and within range of the 360 degree arcs.

Infinite Combo = something that just STOPS the game as it never resolves.

When ships are taking their turns and the wheel keeps going around there is nothing "infinite" going on even if it doesn't look like a lot is happening. If I wanted to try the two space cows stalled in a corner all game there's nothing illegal about it as I take my turns, let you take yours, and we just do it all over again as the round counter advances.

I agree although I normally don't like playing against it.

In our friendly games we make anyone who causes a collision must roll a Red attack dice and takes what every damage rolled.

Even leaving aside whether this is necessary for the game, how do you define "causing" a collision? If I run into my own ship, OK fine (maybe). What do you do if two people just happen to pick the same spot? Who "caused" that? The lower PS pilot, who got the position first? The higher? Both? What happens if you block my ship, and that causes another one of my ships to hit that?

So on top of being unnecessary for the game, it seems one that's fraught with problematic cases and scenarios.

One example of an Infinite Combo would be to give a YT-1300 two navigators. One rotates the dial, the other rotates the dial, the first rotates the dial, the second rotates the dial, et cetera et cetera et cetera.

It's also a catch for future potential scenarios. They've been pretty good about keeping this from happening. The closest they've come is Captain Yorr (pre-FAQ ruling), where you could theoretically give Soontir Fel Opportunist and Targeting Computer, and building him up to an 8 die attack at Range 1, Target Locked and Focused. (Thus the FAQ ruling).

Another potential would be a double-gunner build, if there wasn't the "Can't attack again" clause.

Intentional crashing can be a good tactic. I do find it annoying when I'm on the receiving end though. I really think they should have treated ship collisions the same as asteroid. In that you have a 50% chance of getting damage from crashing. To be fair though I think it would have to apply to both ships involved.

One ot the strongest uses of planned overlap is in the YT fortress build. In this build one takes two YT's and places them at start up facing each other and touching. Then you always select 1 forward as the movements which locks the ships in place and forces your opponent to come to you and within range of the 360 degree arcs.

Now THAT would be annoying as hell to play against - and just may warrant a table flip.

Sounds like your opponent didn't know that bumping to deny the enemy actions is part of the strategy of flying a TIE Swarm.

One ot the strongest uses of planned overlap is in the YT fortress build. In this build one takes two YT's and places them at start up facing each other and touching. Then you always select 1 forward as the movements which locks the ships in place and forces your opponent to come to you and within range of the 360 degree arcs.

Now THAT would be annoying as hell to play against - and just may warrant a table flip.

It shouldn't need anything so dramatic. At least when a couple YTs do it they are giving up their actions. If you do it with pair of Shuttles one can use Advanced Sensors to get an action in the Full Stop. That stress is then taken by the other Shuttle (forget which pilot) who then takes the 1 green into the other ship only to back up to where it stated.

One ot the strongest uses of planned overlap is in the YT fortress build. In this build one takes two YT's and places them at start up facing each other and touching. Then you always select 1 forward as the movements which locks the ships in place and forces your opponent to come to you and within range of the 360 degree arcs.

Now THAT would be annoying as hell to play against - and just may warrant a table flip.

It shouldn't need anything so dramatic. At least when a couple YTs do it they are giving up their actions. If you do it with pair of Shuttles one can use Advanced Sensors to get an action in the Full Stop. That stress is then taken by the other Shuttle (forget which pilot) who then takes the 1 green into the other ship only to back up to where it stated.

Captain Yorr.

And the real trouble with these Fortress modes is that you can very easily focus your fire on them. Even if the two falcons both have Gunner, they only roll 2 attacks per turn. Concentrate one of the immobile bastards, and kill it while it has no actions, and they're screwed.

Interesting idea there, with the "Fortress" ships. I'm thinking of the following:

Lando

Chewbacca + Push the Limit + Gunner + Shield Upgrade + Millennium Falcon

Have the two facing each other, such that you always move 1 forward with both into each other. When Lando executes his green maneuver, he passes a free action to Chewie, who then uses PTL to take a second action. 360 degree firing for both ships, and use Chewie with 2 actions and Gunner each turn to blast away.

Helluva Trolling build and rather lame thematically, but I'm curious as to how effective this would be.

Not exactly on topic here, but this caught my eye.

I brought this build out last year on Vassal with, I think it was MR Froggies or Theorist, and Hothie came in to view it for a bit.

My original build was:

Han Solo

Determination

Gunner

Chewie

DTF

Gunner

The idea is nothing takes an action to activate as you will never get an action. I flew them at the edge of the board (so there was no room to K turn, something I learned from the first match) and just let Han shoot followed by Chewie. Chewie having DTF would draw hits off of Han (who was target number one) until Han was destroyed. The trick is waiting out your opponent. They won't know if you are going to suddenly break formation and fly off or stay. Your opponent will fly at you but they have to turn past you and limit their firing arcs.

I beat 4 X with shields and 4 X's ( think with Biggs). I just wanted to test if it was viable and it was. But if your opponent knows about this build then he can kill it by sweeping in from the edge and strafing the YT's. Head on and you will lose. It takes 2-3 rounds of concentrated fire to kill a single YT. With DTF it ups that by a round and no ship can fly at you and sustain round of firing without K turning (which they can't do because you are at the edge of the map).

I have not tried the Lambda version but that one will be easier to defeat if you sweep in from the side like with the YT build. Again, head on will blast you to space dust.

If I was your opponent Farlander, I'd just bring a few Assault Missiles and "encourage" you to fly a bit further apart and stop being a near-stationary target. I don't need a rule change to fix that non-problem, just a few Target Locks and it'll resolve itself.

Bumping is part of the game and I deal with it, but the whole intentional bumping thing is dumb in my opinion. Try to justify it as thematic with ships flying around each other all you want to, but when I get locked in the middle of a few shuttles with nowhere to go that's not thematic. Best case of thematic bumping was 3 star destroyers trying to "action deny" the falcon while it was trying to escape. It didn't turn out to well for them. And what about ships running into ships? Does that never happen in space flight? We're all such ace pilot that could never happen (cue up scene of Mauler Mithel running into Vader while trying to get the hell out of the trench).

This rule is the side effect of a 2D playing field, and as with anything else in a game people will try to abuse it to their advantage.

At least when a couple YTs do it they are giving up their actions. If you do it with pair of Shuttles one can use Advanced Sensors to get an action in the Full Stop. That stress is then taken by the other Shuttle (forget which pilot) who then takes the 1 green into the other ship only to back up to where it stated.

Captain Yorr.

And the real trouble with these Fortress modes is that you can very easily focus your fire on them. Even if the two falcons both have Gunner, they only roll 2 attacks per turn. Concentrate one of the immobile bastards, and kill it while it has no actions, and they're screwed.

YTs usually give up actions but do have that nice 360 firing arc. With a pair a shuttles you need to park them in a corner with a field of fire that will let you shoot at anything that approaches. I'm actually thinking that the Ion Cannons could be GREAT in this situation because if an opponent is flying at you that also means they are flying towards the edge of the board.