If they wanted them used in standard games, it seems like it would have been simpler to price them for standard games, and not invent two new game modes specifically designed for their use. I don't think the 100 point game is going anywhere, and people who want to play their huge ships more than "rarely, if ever," as you say, will simply flock to Epic play.

Yes, that's the possible meta shift I was talking about. New model comes out, everyone wants it, everyone wants to try it. Local play and tournaments begin to include the new format and more people start playing said format.

It's all theorycrafting, really, but given that people tend to want to pay with the models they buy a rather likely theory.

......The milk man, the paper boy, evening T.V.

You miss your old familiar friends, but waiting just around the bend.

Everywhere you look (everywhere)

Theres a heart (theres a heart)

A hand to hold on to.

Everywhere you look (everywhere)

Theres a face of somebody who needs you.

When your lost out there and your all alone.

A light is waiting to carry you home.

Everywhere you look.

Right but playing a new mode they invented to include the huge ships is decidedly not the same thing as "shifting the meta" to standard games allowing for more than 100 points.

My point is, there are several things arguing against what you're trying to say, if you're claiming that the huge ships are proof of an imminent raise in the point value of a standard game.

1. The huge ships are expressly NOT allowed in a standard game, even though the points would potentially allow it, and

2. They created two new game modes to accommodate the presence of huge ships.

Those two things, if anything, would argue strongly that they do not have any intention of raising the point value of a standard game.

Ehh, I'll just shelve the capital ship debate and take a wait-and-see approach then.

Ehh, I'll just shelve the capital ship debate and take a wait-and-see approach then.

Wait and see what? They expressly stated that capital ships will have their own gameplay modes and will not be legal in standard 100pt play formats. That argues pretty intensely against them having any interest in expanding the point total of a standard game to make room for the huge ships.

Ehh, I'll just shelve the capital ship debate and take a wait-and-see approach then.

Wait and see what? They expressly stated that capital ships will have their own gameplay modes and will not be legal in standard 100pt play formats. That argues pretty intensely against them having any interest in expanding the point total of a standard game to make room for the huge ships.

Wait and see what Epic Play actually entails, and how much popularity it'll gain.

So I should just wait patiently for my Challenge decks to become tournament legal for SWLCG. Because the standard format is much more popular. Also, FFG has obviously abandoned the less popular Melee format for AGOT LCG.

If you actually pay attention to what FFG does for it's other games, it is pretty clear that they like different formats. We will have the standard and Epic tournament formats. And the Capital ships will not join the standard game. I think the Tantive IV is pretty much evidence that there is more rules coming.

you guys argue about the dumbest things.

reminds me of my nephews.

they are 12

If they wanted them used in standard games, it seems like it would have been simpler to price them for standard games, and not invent two new game modes specifically designed for their use. I don't think the 100 point game is going anywhere, and people who want to play their huge ships more than "rarely, if ever," as you say, will simply flock to Epic play.

Yes, that's the possible meta shift I was talking about. New model comes out, everyone wants it, everyone wants to try it. Local play and tournaments begin to include the new format and more people start playing said format.

It's all theorycrafting, really, but given that people tend to want to pay with the models they buy a rather likely theory.

The evidence is not in your favor. I think you under estimate the amount of times people wanna get "quick game in". Whihc is why small and medium ship 100 pt game metas are going nowhere. People will buy these. People will play them.

You do realize games like MTG have about a billion game types which all have their own metas. Pauper, Legacy, Modern, Standard, Constructed, Booster.. Etc.

There is room for more then 1 meta.

......The milk man, the paper boy, evening T.V.

You miss your old familiar friends, but waiting just around the bend.

Everywhere you look (everywhere)

Theres a heart (theres a heart)

A hand to hold on to.

Everywhere you look (everywhere)

Theres a face of somebody who needs you.

When your lost out there and your all alone.

A light is waiting to carry you home.

Everywhere you look.

::using hand gestures::

Cut, it, out! Come on!

I will, yes. Because the idea of creating a new model, advertising it months in advance, going on about how they were "too iconic and exiting to ignore" only to tell players "you will rarely, if ever, actually play with it" sounds ridiculous to me. I might be able to buy that Epic Play simply refers to a format with increased point-cost, but I doubt that means its going to be entirely isolated from the rest of X-wing.

Anyway, the point we seem to be drifting away from is that FFG isn't doing a 1/1 mirror of ships for Rebels and Empire. So the argument that the Rebels will get another big dogfighter because the Empire has two is not really that strong.

Cause we all know the Apocalypse units in W40K can be used in regular tourneys.....oh wait they can't.

The Tantive IV and he Rebel Transport will only be able to be used in Epic and Cinematic game play....the crew cards, the pilots and the upgrades for the X-Wing included with the Transport will be tourney legal. Considering it takes 90 points to just put the bare head and butt of the Tantive on the board...FFG are not going to raise the tourney point limit to allow them.

Think what you will and good luck.

I will, yes. Because the idea of creating a new model, advertising it months in advance, going on about how they were "too iconic and exiting to ignore" only to tell players "you will rarely, if ever, actually play with it" sounds ridiculous to me. I might be able to buy that Epic Play simply refers to a format with increased point-cost, but I doubt that means its going to be entirely isolated from the rest of X-wing.

Anyway, the point we seem to be drifting away from is that FFG isn't doing a 1/1 mirror of ships for Rebels and Empire. So the argument that the Rebels will get another big dogfighter because the Empire has two is not really that strong.

Cause we all know the Apocalypse units in W40K can be used in regular tourneys.....oh wait they can't.

Actually, a lot of previously Apocalyse-only units in 40K are slowly being made standard-viable. That's part of where my reasoning came from.

But yeah, you guys are right. Evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of Epic not going to replace anything. Guess I was -still am, really- clinging to the hope that capital ships would actually become an integral part of the game.

FFG are not going to raise the tourney point limit to allow them.

But they may add a new tourney format though.

But yeah, you guys are right. Evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of Epic not going to replace anything. Guess I was -still am, really- clinging to the hope that capital ships would actually become an integral part of the game.

Hey, you never know, Epic or Cinematic format might take off hugely and become really popular. I think FFG said they'd add Epic to tournaments (separately from regular dogfights). Just because they aren't in dogfight doesn't mean they won't be popular.

But yeah, you guys are right. Evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of Epic not going to replace anything. Guess I was -still am, really- clinging to the hope that capital ships would actually become an integral part of the game.

Hey, you never know, Epic or Cinematic format might take off hugely and become really popular. I think FFG said they'd add Epic to tournaments (separately from regular dogfights). Just because they aren't in dogfight doesn't mean they won't be popular.

With all the hype they've been putting into the huge ships, i'd be shocked if we didnt see epic tournaments come up.

That being said, i think it was brilliant marketing to put really good x-wing pilots and crew members in the huge ships, to make people who don't want to do epic play still want to shell out the money for them.

They were pretty explicit when they announced these all the way back at Gencon. Epic is a tournament format. And I imagine the capital ships will be integral to the Epic metagame.

I'm pretty sure the Epic rules will replace the Escalation tournament at Worlds 2014 since it was called a tournament format, but not replacing the current one.

Oh, BTW Bjorn, in 40k you can now take Apoc units in normal games thanks to the Escalation book .

I'm pretty sure the Epic rules will replace the Escalation tournament at Worlds 2014 since it was called a tournament format, but not replacing the current one.

Oh, BTW Bjorn, in 40k you can now take Apoc units in normal games thanks to the Escalation book .

Of course you can....now that GW doesn't back any or have any official tournament format. They are a model company now that needs to move product....so making the stuff that is just sitting there collecting dust regular game legal is great for them even though it has ruined the game they used to care about. BTW they need to move product because out of nowhere a board game company called FFG in less than a year passed Wizkids and Privateer Press to become the second highest grossing miniature seller.....all because of 1 game!

I guess no one knows what the ships on those cards are then huh

We can always look here http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Starfighter_classes just takes some time.

I know I've seen the ones on Etahn's cards just can't find them now. The others it would just be a matter of digging through ship databases and comparing pics. The YT on the Chardaan Refit could honestly be just a generic Rebel one.

You gotta remember the art for the X-Wing cards aren't all exclusive to this game. Some are just cropped and zoomed in from the LCG card art. The Darth Vader (crew) is an example of that.

Like the ships on the Millennium Falcon title card

The Etahn A'baht and Roark Garnet pilot cards

Or the one in the background of the Chardaan Refit card (looks like the falcon but can't be cuz dish is on opposite side)

Millennium Falcon title: no idea.

Etahn A'baht: Yevetha D-type fighters.

Roark Garnet: Kihraxz assault fighters.

Chardaan Refit: hard to tell, but could be a B-wing cockpit.

So with it being a known fact that FFG uses art from the LCG on X-Wing cards.....look who is now in the LCG.

That might not be the image you are wanting to back up your argument. Perhaps the multiple cards that the Outrider is appearing on is a better argument.

You gotta remember the art for the X-Wing cards aren't all exclusive to this game. Some are just cropped and zoomed in from the LCG card art. The Darth Vader (crew) is an example of that.

Not just the LCG. Hobbie's card is a cropped version of the Starfighters of Adumar cover and the A-wing prototype pilot card uses (rather fittingly) Ralph McQuarrie's original concept art.

You gotta remember the art for the X-Wing cards aren't all exclusive to this game. Some are just cropped and zoomed in from the LCG card art. The Darth Vader (crew) is an example of that.

Not just the LCG. Hobbie's card is a cropped version of the Starfighters of Adumar cover and the A-wing prototype pilot card uses (rather fittingly) Ralph McQuarrie's original concept art.

Excellent finds, Keroko!

Yeah, it's not all original art. But the art they do use, is all awesome.