was i just imagining things or weren't we supposed to get them by now. I mean there are already rulings being made from them and i can't find a copy anywhere. Are they out and i just can't find them? Or do i still have to wait to see them due to being a common folk?

There is a concise version in the starter boxes.

Steve's words to me on Saturday - the full 35-40 page PDF should be available Monday or Tuesday.

This last week things were a little backed up due to PotM.

Between now and then... go grab a set 12 starter. Those are your quick start game rules.

Antigoth said:

I keep one of the new rules sheet in my deckbox at all times.

I haven't even read the new rules sheet yet.. I'm slacking on my scout duties.

THEY ARE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dragoku said:

Next time be a dear and let us know where. But for those who care, I tracked them down:

new.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/UFS/Support/UFS%20Advanced%20Rules%20ver%202.0.pdf

------------------------------------------------------

In general it looks more professional than last time, but there are still several holes.

The first one I noticed is that there is nothing describing "playing attacks as reversals" or "playing cards or abilities as reversals"

It talks about playing Reversals during the reversal step, sure. But Reversals aren't the only thing that can be played as reversals.

Plenty of cards let you play non-reversal attacks "as a reversal."

Old Promo R. Mika lets you play Form abilities "as a reversal."

I think there may have even been something that lets you play other cards that would normally be forms as a reversal.

So the text about "The Reversal Step" is great, but it should explain "playing cards as reversals" rather than just "playing Reversals."

Then the Reversal keyword could be shortened to something like: "R Reveal this card from your hand: At the beginning of the Reversal Step of an attack you blocked, you may play this attack as a reversal. You may only attempt to play one card as a reversal per blocked attack."

And the worst part is? They're in no way shape or form even remotely printer friendly.... Huzzah for ball dropping there...

Edit: Oh second worst part? The errata pdf it mentions? Yeah it doesn't exist!

BlindProphet said:

Hey... one thing at a time.

We got the Banned list.

Now we have the complete rules.

Next up - Tournament Floor rules + Errata list.

AP,

Not really seeing why there needs to be specific rules when a card breaks the normal game rules and allows you to play something that's not a reversal as a reversal.

Antigoth said:

Especially since the Golden Rule would take care of that part.

Good now there will not be a mad scramble for rules.

Antigoth said:

So we get rules we can't practically use, and we no longer have any sort of errata... Awesome . And we have to wait for two things that should have been up with the release of the rules yesterday... AWESOME ! One of which probably could have been done and posted before the version of the rules that will see no practical use was posted... DOUBLE AWESOME !

So you guys are whining about not getting the cool looking rules that can't fit in any product besides the next round of boxes or something? Sounds like a waste of time to me.

BlindProphet said:

If you're unable to load the rules that are available on the website, I'd recommened either downloading adobe acrobat reader, it's free, or upgrading to the latest version. Again... it's free.

Otherwise, these are the current rules. They're presently in effect.

BlindProphet said:

No, we do have Errata. Off the top of my head, there was one card with errata in the current standard environment - Maternal Instincts.
Outside of that any other errata was functional errata.

Because of the new rules, we have to go through all of the existing cards, and update / create a significant amount of functional errata. (Go look at M Bison. Then go look at 4.8 tell me he doesn't need functional errata)

BlindProphet said:

Actually the amount amount of issues in the Rules Q&A that these rules clear up are massive.
IF you're stating that people won't use these rules, then hey... what's the point of the rest of the documentation you're requesting.

Tournament Floor rules state things such as penalties, and how to run swiss tournaments. That's used by select people in OP events.
This document it game rules on how to play the game.
Sorry dude... in order of importance, especially with the new base set... and the 3rd anny event... this is much higher priority.

First needing adobe acrobat to be able to look something up durring a tournament is not practical. Its just not. You can say it is, but having to have a pdf reader of some sort with you to quickly look up a rule is not practical.

Secondly, we have no errata currently you can say oh yeah we had errata before but currently we have no listing of current errata. There is no errata in the rules document. The errata pdf does not exist either. Why on earth the errata pdf was deemed not to be published with the rules is beyond me. Yes things need new errata...but we don't even have a listing of the old errata anymore. I know I don't play it but others do play legacy too. Any new player that comes here will find no errata. Would have it really been that hard to publish the old errata listing?

For the third point I figured Tournament Floor Rules actualy meant a printer friendly version of the rules that could be printed out so a copy was on the tournament floor. Apparently this is not the case...and apparently its not a priority either. The fact that we don't even have the basic things we need, and the fact that we needed to wait till we had a non practical version of the rules that we can look at on our computers but can't really print out without destroying our printers ink reserves is retarded.

This whole thing was handled poorly...

BlindProphet said:

Actually PDF is a universal format, that keeps the document intact. That way whether you're using Linux, Mac, or PC, the document will look the same. Additionally it will print out the same.

From a professional standpoint while it may seem impractical to you, it is the best way.

BlindProphet said:

No, it would not have been hard for me to copy and paste and include the exisiting errata into the document.
However 1) I had no desire to be in charge of collecting the errata. Writing the rules document was more then sufficient thanks.
2) Whenever new errata was to be issued, it would mean having to redo the rules document. If you knew the pain that it took to get the rules document approved and into your hands, you would understand why they're bring broken out separately.
3) I am a big proponent of Legacy, and I understand the need to have the errata in place. However for the long term health of the game, it's best to have it in a single file that can be updated as needed.

BlindProphet said:

Yeah... these aren't the tournament floor rules. These are the full game rules, that once you've learned to play by the starter rules, this covers all of the niggly little details.

As for a printer friendly version... yeah... that's outside of my control. I strongly recommend using the FFG contact information you have available to you from the website to contact FFG directly to make that request.

BlindProphet said:

As someone who wants it now now now now. Yep... sure can appear that way.

In six months, when everything is settled, the fall OP programs are in place... it won't seem quite so silly.

Antigoth said:

Arrogance. And this is one errata I actually NEED.

Just throwing in my thoughts here:

This is a million times better than the old document, no question. however I dislike the fact that it is incredibly printer unfriendly, and can be slow to browse at times due to the heavy amount of images used.

I agree with antigoth in that anyone that wants a simplified text-only version of this should email customer support and ask them for it. It is not an unreasonable request, however it likely will not be the highest priority. I know I will be looking into converting it by stripping the background images from the text for quicker loading on my work laptop which I use for events.

As for tournament floor rules, I am looking forward to them, as well as exact rules for draft and sealed so a standard format can be used universally, as well as details for situations within tournaments that might arise. (missed mandatory effects, slow play, collusion, players not being clear on game state, etc) Currently I go by Magic: The Gathering's floor rules and penalty guidelines for the most part, but it would prevent confusion when attending various events, knowing how things will be ruled and enforced.

Overall, so far so good! This is a great sign of things to come!

When giving the rules a quick read over...I came across Powerful.

Powerful: X (Enhance) - E: Discard any number of momentum: For each momentum discarded to pay for this ability’s cost, this Powerful attack gets +X damage.

Now, if I am not mistaken, I am seeing two cost points. First is the E:. then the Discarding of the momentum. So if I wanted to negate this now, where would it be done, could it be done before the momentum is discard or after? I am positive it a grammar error and the colon after the E should not be there, but it is something that should be fixed if these are going to be the official rules.

Cronos said:

Yep. In the Starter rules, IIRC, it's written that way.

Antigoth said:

No its not that they're a pdf... PDF's are fine, for the reasons you state. But it is not practical for me to have to carry a laptop around to read them. This is from the perspective of they are not at all even remotely printer friendly so I can't print them out to have for when I run tournaments. A PDF is not practical from the sense of if you need to look something up fairly quickly to make a ruling or settle a dispute durring a tournament.

Onto the erratta bit. Thats great that its in another document. Currently though we have no errata because they have not posted one. Without it, we have no errata. None. Poorly handled.

And as for this was poorly handled simply from the "I want it now perspective". What about the regionals that are slated to happen? I know I'd whip maternal instincts back out if I was playing in one this weekend and the errata hadn't come out by then. To say that it wasn't handled poorly because in the fall it will all be ok! is silly.

Cronos said:

I'll note that for the next revision to remove the colon directly after the E.

Homme Chapeau said:

HEY GUYS

Homme Chapeau said:

Arrogance
Should read:
At the end of your turn, lose X vitality. X equals 4 minus the number of forms you played this turn (minimum 0).
During your opponent's turn, they may only play as many forms as you played in your last turn. If you played no forms other than to pass in your preceding turn, your opponent plays as normal.

Maternal Instincts
Should read:
E Commit: If your attack deals damage, draw X cards and then your Combat Phase ends. X equals your hand size minus the number of cards in your hand (minimum 0).

:::Ken:::
Should Read:
F Commit: Your opponent gains X vitality and commits X of their foundations. X cannot be more than your opponent's maximum vitality minus their current vitality.

BlindProphet said:

Since you won't need the graphics - allow me to give you the quick way to get a text only version of the document.

1) Load the PDF.
2) Click into the PDF, then press Ctrl+A
3) Open your favourite text editor.
4) Press Ctrl+C

You will now have a text only version of the rules. Please note the formatting may be a little less then perfect, and the areas around the graphics will leave something to be desired.

It will cut the number of pages from 38 down to 24ish. If you're willing to spend 5 minutes cleaning up the formatting you can reduce the size even more.

BlindProphet said:

Between now and when the full revised errata document is released we have the following post stickied in the rules Q&A:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=30&efcid=5&efidt=113308

We hope to have a more detailed document available on the web page within the next couple of weeks.

BlindProphet said:

Yeah no... there's a record of what the errata should be. It's posted publicly. It's been posted in the SotG.

BlindProphet said:

Was all of this handled the best it possibly could have been? No.
Does this require massive amounts of Drama? No.
What I'm saying is that in six months when people look back on the wailing and gnashing on posts like yours, they're going to wonder what the point was.