I've got my own ideas on it but I was curious how others are handling the iconic Force Push in their games. Clearly using Move, but was curious to hear any ideas and thoughts.

Humanoids are Sil1

Move with the appropriate upgrades should do it.

Pushing just anywhere is probably a Simple or Easy Discipline check.

Pushing to a particular spot, timing, whatever would be more difficult.

Guess it depends on what your player is attempting to do.

Get the elevation right and you can easily send Jawas a coupla hundred feet.

I'm surprised no one brought this up sooner. I think it's clear that you can move people with the Force, and with a magnitude upgrade a bunch of them. The question is, how does it mimic the damage it seems to do in the movies? I would think if you slam them against the floor or a wall it would work like the control upgrade of hitting them with objects, with the silhouette being the size of the being you are pushing.

I'm surprised no one brought this up sooner. I think it's clear that you can move people with the Force, and with a magnitude upgrade a bunch of them. The question is, how does it mimic the damage it seems to do in the movies? I would think if you slam them against the floor or a wall it would work like the control upgrade of hitting them with objects, with the silhouette being the size of the being you are pushing.

This hasn't come up, but that's how I intend to run it.

I was considering silhouette size but I'd like to incorporate Discipline into the check for a couple reasons. To use the uncancelled successes and advantages for a bit more damage and the chance of criticals, and to give an opposing Force user the ability to resist, similar to the image of Anakin and Obi Wan in SW3 during their duel.

I was considering using either Brawn or natural Soak as the difficulty for the Discipline check.

I think it depends on the goal.

Just trying to shove people out of the way so the group can make an escape? Standard Move check.

Shoving one/multiple people to do damage, either into a wall or just onto the floor? Move as a weapon check.

2P51 has a good idea with the opposed force user thing. I'd say that if you're trying to force push/move a force user who has move, you'd do a discipline vs. vigilance check. Player succeeds, he does whatever Move check he's trying normally; player fails, opposing force user(s) get to make an opposed force roll. This can be either the force user doing their normal force roll and then going into opposed discipline rolls (maybe with boosts/setbacks/upgrades based on advantage/threat gained) or simply an opposed Force Move, then whoever gets the most Strength upgrades activated either gets to finish the attack (if they initiated it) or throw it to the side (if they're defending).

And doing things like just generally Force Moving people into/over things that could instantly get them killed, like cliffs or something does make things a bit complicated since it would kind of suck to have to stop putting in intimidating environmental hazards since a group's force-user can just freely toss people. Personally, I can't think of anything I'd find satisfactory to resolve this issue. 2P51's discipline vs. brawn is a good start though.

I'm surprised no one brought this up sooner. I think it's clear that you can move people with the Force, and with a magnitude upgrade a bunch of them. The question is, how does it mimic the damage it seems to do in the movies? I would think if you slam them against the floor or a wall it would work like the control upgrade of hitting them with objects, with the silhouette being the size of the being you are pushing.

To take it a step further also, I could see Force Push just across a room possibly doing nothing but shoving the target away. Then of course damage comes in when they hit something. It would have to be within range, so should strength upgrades add more damage? Should range upgrades? If I can move something to long range and there's a wall at medium.....?

I've got my own ideas on it but I was curious how others are handling the iconic Force Push in their games. Clearly using Move, but was curious to hear any ideas and thoughts.

I've just been treating it as using the Move power with needing at least one Strength Upgrade to cover humanoids being Silhouette 1, adding Magnitude Upgrades to affect multiple targets at one time; dealing damage would require the "hurl objects" Control Upgrade, and would use the damage of a Silhouette 1 object. The notion here being that the Force user is slamming the target(s) into the ground. It doesn't render the target prone, but if used against minions it can wipe out a few of them easily enough due to the greater likelihood of rolling lots of successes vs. a single difficulty die when rolling Discipline.

I came up with this particularly implementation back during the EotE Beta while doing some Force-centric stress tests to try and gauge levels of power that various Force Ratings provided, but never felt the need to mention it as it seemed fairly obvious.

I wouldn't let additional Strength Upgrades be employed to add more damage. Against most adversaries, a base 10 damage plus successes will be more than enough to take them out, particularly once the Force user starts investing in their Discipline skill.

It seems something seldom implemented in even the later films (except against droids), probably because Lucas didn't want to call his movies Telekentic Wars. I think using it against living beings is a bit gray, and using it to push people off of cliffs is downright dark. While a discipline check allows for criticals, I'm not sure this is a force power that can be resisted, unless you're force pushing back like Anakin and Obi-wan in Sith. Everyone who has force pushed someone has succeeded if that person hasn't been pushing back, Darth Maul against Obi-wan, Yoda against Palpatine, and that 's force user against force user.

It seems something seldom implemented in even the later films (except against droids), probably because Lucas didn't want to call his movies Telekentic Wars. I think using it against living beings is a bit gray, and using it to push people off of cliffs is downright dark. W

Too bad there's no solid "you're using the Dark Side, prepare to be corrupted" mechanic.

Like, if there was any question about Force users being overpowered...throwing people around with Move fairly casually pretty much says it all.

Well, there's not "dark side corruption" mechanic yet.

Force & Destiny has a Beta allegedly slated for this year, so if FFG is going to introduce such a mechanic, that'd be the place to do it.

Edge seems that is focused on Rebelion Era, so, probably they won't create a "Push/Slam" Power because it doesn't appear on old movies.

I would like it by the way and, until the moment, Move adaptation could be a nice choice. Sample here can be enough.

Well, there's not "dark side corruption" mechanic yet.

Force & Destiny has a Beta allegedly slated for this year, so if FFG is going to introduce such a mechanic, that'd be the place to do it.

And in the meantime, I think a GM is well-served in using the Obligation mechanic to reflect a character relying far too much on calling upon the Dark Side of the Force.

I would set the difficulty of the discipline check equal to the silhouette of the being you're moving, just like the control upgrade to throw objects. It seems most of the force powers are not to designed to be resisted (numerous posters complaining about having no way to resist having their weapon pulled out of their hands). I don't think it's a game breaker as there are always ways for a GM to make a player feel the consequences of going dark. My question is the idea of two force users pushing against each other, and how it would work? I would allow a competitive check if one of the force users haven't acted and declared an intent to counter a force power should they be the target of a force push. Perhaps if both players share the same number of success you have an outcome similar to Obi and Ani at the end of Sith.

Perhaps at least silhouette +1 for difficulty to simulate a live subject being less cooperative than an inanimate object in being hurled.

Perhaps at least silhouette +1 for difficulty to simulate a live subject being less cooperative than an inanimate object in being hurled.

Well, since it'd be a ranged attack, I'd say that any abilities the target has that would affect a ranged attack would come into play rather than just a flat difficulty boost.

Mechanically, the effect is using Move to briefly pick up the target and then hurl them at the ground. And while the ground probably won't have any defensive traits, the person being hurled might, such as defense from armor or talents that upgrade the difficulty, or even just being behind cover (which provided a bonus when targeted by Force Slam in Saga Edition).

So if using Move to "Force slam" a bounty hunter in armored clothing with Adversary 2, the Force user would make their Discipline check at a final difficulty pool of 1 red, 1 purple, and 1 black (base of 1 purple for Silhouette 1 object, upgraded twice for Adversary ranks, and then setback from the armor's defense bonus).

Of course, the trick comes when targeting multiple opponents with a "Force slam" in that how their respective defensive traits would be applied. Going by Autofire, if the Force user were to attack that same bounty hunter, along with a pair of thugs that are behind improved cover (providing Ranged Defense 2), then the Discipline check would be 1 challenge, 1 purple, and 2 setback (base 1 for Silhouette 1 objects, upgrade twice for Adversary, then two setback from the improved cover).

Upon reflection I'm satisfied with just setting it at 2D in line with a Melee difficulty. Keeps it simple, which I always prefer. Setbacks can be added for various ideas and issues as they arise.

I prefer the simple take myself. From looking at the films it seems like something not hard to hit someone with. Many force powers in the game offer little or no resistance. I'm hoping it's something that will be clarified in F&D.

I won't claim to be an expert in Force powers, but here goes.

The control upgrade that lets you use the Move power as a weapon states that it does so because you can now hurl the objects fast enough to be projectiles. That would seem to apply to force slamming people into a wall or ceiling/floor (what goes up comes down as soon as the jedi stops concentrating).

If I gently push someone they might stumble but aren't going to suffer mush more than hurt feelings. If I toss you across a room, accelerating all the way, you get hurt. That means I need to be able to move you as fast as the projectile. Thus force push as a weapon requires discipline checks and the upgrade.

Players and Nemesis need to be able to resist. Minions and rivals should just get tossed around as that's what they are there for. GMs should allow characters to resist using their best abilities. Force Users can easily justify using discipline to resist using the force, mundanes can just get the heck out of the way. Hell, I'd let the pop psychologist character resist by asking the Sith, "Does your grandmother know you make the orgasm face when you use the Force?" At least the first time he made such a non sequitur.

For those of you worried about dark side, remember that motivation is as important as action. Disarming some one so that they can't shoot you is hardly dark side. Disarming them so that your friends have a defenseless opponent to beat down? That's probably dark side. Throwing someone off a cliff in self defense or defense of another also doesn't cross the dark side metric. Throwing them off because it's hilarious probably is dark side (exceptions exist for Justin Beiber).

Throwing them off because it's hilarious probably is dark side (exceptions exist for Justin Beiber).

Used my Move power to chuck a bounty hunter off the roof of a moving bullet train once (Saga days). In my defence we were all about dead. Good times...

A sound argument. If rival and nemesis characters can resist it should be pretty **** hard considering that Obi-wan and gets force pushed quite a bit, and yoda force pushes the emperor.

I prefer the simple take myself. From looking at the films it seems like something not hard to hit someone with. Many force powers in the game offer little or no resistance. I'm hoping it's something that will be clarified in F&D.

There are situations in the movie (and readily depicted in TFU as well, fwiw), where two characters are trying to Force Push each other and their "directed Force energy" sort of impacts. They either struggle til one succeeds, they're both thrown, or it cancels out. I'd love to see this kind of mechanic, very cinematic.

Force powers say they always activate, so you could just handle it as a competitive check by the 2 Force users. A tie equals they both fling each other.

I'm thinking F&D might offer up a "rebuke" type of power, one that lets a Force user negate the effects of a Force power that targets them. Probably be an opposed Discipline vs. Discipline check, or at least that's the tact I took with my Rebuke power in the latest version of my Ways of the Force fan supplement.

That way, something like Obi-Wan and Anakin both being sent hurling would like be a case of Obi-Wan trying to use Move to hurl Anakin away, Anakin responding with Rebuke. And while Anakin failed the opposed Discipline check, he did roll a Triumph, enabling him to at least give Obi-Wan a taste of his own medicine.

We don't really see Force push effects being used on non-Force users aside from battle droids (minions aka canon fodder), so hard to judge of a regular person really should have much of an actual defense against being telekinetically hurled away from the Force user or not. I'm kinda leaning with the "not" side of things other than any benefits against ranged attacks they might have, which I'd say would apply by virtue of those abilities equating to "get out of the way!" and being a moving target would make it more difficult for a Jedi to blast you away with a wave of kinetic force.

I'm actually tempted to shoot an e-mail to FFG to see if they might be willing to provide their thoughts on the feasibility of using Move to simulate a Force push/slam effect.

Admittedly, an excessively strict reading of Move could say that it can't target living persons in the first place, since the power uses the word "object" when describing what's affected. But as I said, that'd be an excessively strict interpretation of the word "object" in this particular context.