I just picked up the new expansion and something caught my eye that looks really abusive...

Shadow Warrior ability "Unstoppable" allows you to change each X result to another result of your choice after attacking without spending any surge. Am I reading that right or does that mean that you can never miss again after buying that ability? If that's the case I don't see how that's not utterly broken. One of the few limits on hero power once they have geared is the 1/6 change they will miss and screw up their plan. If you have a character with guaranteed hits I don't see how the overlord is supposed to deal with that. I'm hoping I'm wrong...

You are reading it correctly. It is a rather good skill.

Is it that great? There are items about that let you re-roll a die once per turn, and the chances of rolling two or more misses in one turn are fairly low.

It's not just a reroll. You are also putting it on the best possible outcome. So now instead of a 1/6 of a miss and 1/6 chance of 2 hearts and a surge, you have a 1/3 change of 2 hearts and a surge. That's really silly. We just finished a mini campaign and even in level 1 gear (from the expansions...) the heroes were one shotting level 2 monsters. It really feels like the hero power creep is getting out of control.

Also most rerolls are once a turn which means that every dice rolled after (so 2 more if the first attack misses and you want to attack twice) has a chance of missing or the abilities specifically leave out the attack dice.

I don't have the expansion so maybe I am misreading something but I don't think changing for surge would be useful. The first post he wrote, "after an attack without a spending a surge." I imagine this means you can't spend surges to use this ability. If I am mistaken please let me know. Still super strong with the guaranteed hits.

The ability is a passive so every melee (I forgot to include that stipulation) attack made after buying the skill with XP is subject to it.

I feel its decent for a 3 point skill but not too strong.

Basically all it does is remap the X to a 2heart 1 surge.

So you cannot miss.

Exact words are:

"Apply +1 to your stamina.

Each time you perform an attack with a melee weapon, after dice are rolled you may change each X result to another result of your choice."

Oh, if its a 3-point skill, I'm not too concerned about it. 3-point skills should be kind of strong.

That's not even that powerful for a 3 point skill, compared to the strength of other 3 point skills. It's a reliability skill, but it gives you no added burst potential or tricks.

It's incredibly powerful. It might not have burst potential by itself, but combined with say the dual strike ability which lets you use your offhand weapon's surges it's going to be massive. Think about that, you are getting an additional surge from dual strike straight from the ability, then not missing and getting an additional 1/6 chance of a surge from the blue die. So you have statistically more surges than you should AND are getting around the limit on surge weapon uses. With the power creep of expansion gear, that hero is going to be doing absurd amounts of damage on a regular interval. That's much better than say, the Wayfarer's level three Black Arrow where you are just guaranteed 3 damage.

It's not in your face burst damage but it will generate a huge amount of extra damage over the course of the campaign which will really add up.

Also as I pointed out, the fact that you can not miss means that the heroes don't have an option for failure if they need to kill a specific monster in order to not lose which means that the randomness which limits their ability is no longer a factor. Before the heroes can plan out a turn, have the warrior miss with an attack and now they have to rethink their plan. With no missing they can be sure that if they just need to kill a monster then run out the door (which is how a good deal of quests work) there's no luck factor to make that not a sure bet.

I don't have shadow of nerekhall yet (waiting for my FLGS to get it in stock), but I was under the impression that Unstoppable was a skill for the Shadow Walker class (correct me if I'm wrong), which would mean you literally can't combine it with dual strike. Even if it isn't, again, this is a 3 point skill that simply improves your reliability, it does not open more options. It is not that strong for a 3 point skill. You need to compare this to other skills that other classes have before complaining that it's broken. And no, I don't agree that it's better than the wildlander's black arrow skill, which is also incredibly good in it's own way.

There are other heroes and items that make it so you pretty much don't miss. The use of fortune tokens can accomplish that, you can accomplish it by playing Reynhart the Worthy, Widow Tarha almost never misses, so on and so forth. It is not that powerful for 3 experience points, you are vastly overestimating it. It is an upgrade that makes your attacks more reliable: that's a good thing, and it is useful, but it's not game breaking. The heroes can still fail to deal enough damage to kill the target, this only makes the one character more reliable, it doesn't buff his buddies. I'm not sure where you are getting this notion that the one skill makes it so the entire party can't miss. It's also only on melee attacks, which is a significant penalty to the skill.

I may be wrong about the dual strike and unstoppable being on the same build. I can't check that since I'm away from the cards.

You are missing the true benefit of this ability. It's not "almost never misses" it's "never miss." Widow Tarha can also only use her ability once per turn. So if she attacks twice the second attack can't use it. Additionally and most importantly with a reroll you have not only the chance to miss again, but you are not guaranteed to get the optimal result on the die. You could get the two heart result which is vastly inferior to the surge result, especially as the weapons increase in value throughout the game. With reach, the extra stamina from the feat, and gear that gives you + movement (which you can plan on getting at the end of the interlude) being melee only is not that much of a hindrance.

I'm not saying the entire party doesn't miss. I'm saying the fear of missing is gone in game deciding moments. Now if one monster is in the way or whatever they choose the guy who can't miss and now the randomness is gone and it's just as powerful in that situation as if no one could miss. Many quests boil down to a situation where one monster must be killed in a specific turn and this ability trivializes that.

I mean I doubt many people have played with this yet as the expansion has been out for a day but I'd be very interested to see if my predictions on its use end up being correct or not.

Straight up its a useful ability but remeber that the overlord has tricks to change those dice as well if he has the cards. And a good overlord saves those cards for the key moments.

I'm not saying the entire party doesn't miss. I'm saying the fear of missing is gone in game deciding moments. Now if one monster is in the way or whatever they choose the guy who can't miss and now the randomness is gone and it's just as powerful in that situation as if no one could miss. Many quests boil down to a situation where one monster must be killed in a specific turn and this ability trivializes that.

I kinda get this. But there's a 1XP Overlord card in the same expansion that lets you mess with hero turn order.

Also the mechanic already existed. The Beastmaster had Shadow Hunter which was also an unmissable attack, playable any time as long as he had his Wolf out already or had the one fatigue and action to summon. He's not regarded as one of the stronger classes.

That's not even that powerful for a 3 point skill, compared to the strength of other 3 point skills. It's a reliability skill, but it gives you no added burst potential or tricks.

Have you SEEN the other 3-point skills? Sure, there are strong ones out there, but the majority of them are utter junk. It actually really surprises me how many of them I would have a hard time justifying for 1, let alone for 3.

This IS powerful - and it's exactly the kind of thing I EXPECT to get on a 3-point skill.

That's not even that powerful for a 3 point skill, compared to the strength of other 3 point skills. It's a reliability skill, but it gives you no added burst potential or tricks.

Have you SEEN the other 3-point skills? Sure, there are strong ones out there, but the majority of them are utter junk. It actually really surprises me how many of them I would have a hard time justifying for 1, let alone for 3.

This IS powerful - and it's exactly the kind of thing I EXPECT to get on a 3-point skill.

Compare to a variety of the other 3 point skills out there, and let's evaluate, shall we? Remember that skills need to be taken in context of the skillset: they do not exist in a vacuum.

Champion- Valorous Strike: Removes the valor cap for your champion character, allowing the heroes to stockpile valor in encounter 1 to have a crap ton of it for encounter 2. One of the ways heroes can compensate and react to the overlord stockpiling cards. When combined with over champion abilities, this is very potent.

Stalker- Ambush: Free attacks for 1 fatigue. Anything that gives you extra actions is extremely powerful. This has the added advantage of not being limited to melee.

Berserker- Death Rage: Highest potential damage attack in the game on a single target. For added fun, use it with Reynhart so the attack can't miss. Synergizes well with skills like brute that allow you to stack more damage on yourself. Has the added benefit of making it so the overlord doesn't want to hurt you.

Necromancer- Army of Death: This should be obvious, and a no-brainer. Your reanimate (which should be fairly beefy) gets to attack everything in your line of sight for 2 fatigue. Synergize with vampiric blood and undead might for DAMAGE.

Apothecary- Potent Remedies: Bar none one of the best abilities in the game. Once per turn you can revive without spending an action, meaning that the overlord's advantage for actually dropping one of you is mitigated heavily. Further, it improves your healing slightly and further allows your healing to restore fatigue. Synergizes exceedingly well with every other ability the apothecary possesses that influences his elixirs, like herbal lore and protective tonic.

Hexer- Both skills: Each of these essentially makes your actions more efficient or grants more actions, both of which are excellent things. It's too bad the rest of the hexer's skill set kinda sucks.

Runemaster- Quick Casting: Extra attack!

Spiritspeaker- Vigor: This is obvious, it makes all of your attacks a potential stamina battery for your entire party.

Prophet- Focused Insights: Makes your heal into an AoE, and when combined with All-Seeing, can drastically improve your healing output, with no range limitations.

Disciple- Radiant Light: Any questions? This is insane.

Disciple- Holy Power: Effectively doubles your healing output for the same cost, while allowing fatigue regen.

Thief- Lurk and Bushwack: Both skills give you extra actions, which is, again, the most valuable thing in the game for the heroes.

Wildlander: Black Arrow: Guaranteed damage on a non-miss, regardless of what else is reducing your damage or how much defense they have. Also adds range, making you reliably more dangerous from further away.

Wildlander: Running Shot: Free movement. Again, similar to getting extra actions.

Many of the others I didn't mention are also excellent skills.

The skill we are discussing in question does not add actions. It simply modifies the probability of the blue die. It's a decent skill but it is by no means one of the best in the game. Add in the fact that it offers no support, it's on a scout who often is doing other things other than attacking, and is required to be a melee attack on a scout (which are squishier and more vulnerable than other characters). The only thing it really does is make your attacks more reliable and slightly more damaging on average.

Frankly, the +1 stamina portion of it is more valuable.

Quite frankly I do not think it is overly strong either. It gets you a guaranteed two attacks a turn. A lot of other 3 pointers allow one free attack are in general stronger. Accounting for 1/6 miss rate you get on average 7/3 successful attacks.

I feel the conjuror "prismatic assault" is much stronger. Its a little tricky to do but If you play that ideally you can get 5 attacks off in one turn. Easiest way is with High Mage Q using heroic feat.

A lot of those threes involve setting up ideal situations so it isn't quite as clear as "pay 1 fatigue, get extra attack." For instance the thief's Bushwack, the monster must be the only one in its line of sight, with the Stalker the monster has to get close to the trap (meaning the overlord has agency over what order monster go through it), and Skinwalker requires you to sacrifice your beast. Others like Black Arrow are just lackluster. At the end of act 1, before tier 2 gear if I hit a monster I was guaranteed something like six damage pierce 1 so unless the monster was able to throw two grey dice and get five shields I'm paying a surge for an extra two range. I'm sure there's some fringe cases where that ability might be useful but it's not the same as a constant bonus.

I was slightly wrong before. Both Unstoppable (the ability in question) and Dual Strike are on the Skirmisher class. So being the warrior they probably aren't as squishy. What separates this skill from a lot of the other level threes is that is is free.

I just noticed that the class also has Unrelenting which gives and additional attack once a turn for one fatigue, the stipulation being that you need to target the same monster that you just attacked and have to use your other weapon. That's a 2 experience skill. So you can combo the non-missing ability with one that allows for an extra action something that other classes typically get as a 3 experience skill.

Lastly it's NOT simply an ability that stops you from missing. There is new gear that does that called The Golden Mask which changes the X to a blank. This increases the chance of getting a surge on the attack dice from a 1/3 to 1/2. That is going to raise the damage per action of the class by a huge amount, especially as surges give even greater bonuses.

I understand what you are saying. Its definitely a quality skill but in my view its not broken strong. Which is just my opinion.

But I realize how you feel and respect that. It is definitely nice to know you will not miss.

Yeah at this point I've gotten my original question answered and made my statements. If other people disagree then that's just as valid as anything I have to say especially since I don't think anyone has played through a campaign with this class. Thanks for all the responses!

Wildwing - I feel like you're missing the point entirely, or at least vastly underestimating the value of an experience point for the heroes. Sure, three point abilities are good, but they have to be good enough that you'd buy them instead of 1 or 2 point abilities. Here are some examples -

Running Shot - At two points, Fleet of Foot is the best movement ability in the game, bar none, and ranks on my top five skills across all classes. For THREE points you can occasionally get a few free movement points? I would never take this ability. But it's not like I would take...

Black Arrow - by the time you can buy this, it is so ridiculously obsolete... three points of damage? It doesn't counter misses? It only adds two range? It costs a stamina? (Already in high demand because of Fleet of Foot). I would buy any of the wildlander's 2 point abilities rather than any of the 3s.

Valorous Strike - Not bad - I think you're missing the best part about it, which is that Valor tokens are limited, but this uses hearts. But at the same time, it lets you make one big strike per game. Definitely usable, but again, there's a ton of competition at the 2-level for Champions; all 3 2-cost abilties are better than this.

Death Rage - No, Valorous Strike is the single largest damage potential in the game, because it's essentially unlimited. This costs 2 stamina, a surge, requires that you declare it BEFORE the attack, and requires that you be badly damaged to be good. It's not unusable, but it's worse in every way than Valorous Strike. No, I tell a lie, it's got one big advantage, you can use it twice in one turn (if you've got the stamina, if you roll the surges, etc, etc.) which is definitely worth something. Still, not exciting.

Lurk - this ability is terrible. It's not worth 1 point, because it doesn't synergize with your basic Thief ability! If they could be combined it would be a 3-point ability but as it is, 90% of the time the action you "save" by using this will be spent actually MOVING over to the token, which Greedy lets you skip. There are no circumstances under which I would buy this card. (Then again, thief is a totally obsolete class at this point, so why would anyone play Thief anyway...)

Radiant Light - I agree, this is insane - insane to buy this. You're buying it over Holy Light, when the whole point of playing a disciple is building up Prayer of Healing to be the most powerful ability in the game. For what? A little extra healing and a piddling amount of damage? If you want to do that choose Spiritspeaker, which does the same thing for 2 XP, so at least it's usable in act 1.

Extra attack skills - you list a lot of these. Many classes get them for 2 XP; some classes get them for ONE XP. Very restricted extra attacks like Bushwhack don't excite me for 3. (But, again, thief. Why would you play him.) Quick casting is fine - I would almost always take it, as it's virtually unrestricted. Generally, they're always playable, but again, I'm not going to get excited for 3 when there are classes that get them for 1.

Potent Remedies - I honestly have no idea where you're coming from here. It's a fine card. One of the most powerful abilities in the game? It's not even the apothecary's best ability (that would be Bottled Courage - a TOTALLY UNRESTRICTED free attack, WITH A BONUS, for 2 cost - THAT is one of the best abilities in the game, bar none. I can't even think of who else gets an unrestricted extra attack, at ANY cost.)

On the other hand, you also have Army of Death and Holy Power - two of the best abilities in the game. But I didn't say every 3-point ability was terrible. Just most of them. I would take Unstoppable over pretty much any of the abilities you mention except these two. Not because any of them are so great, but because they're all - including Unstoppable - pretty "meh". For 3 XP, not worrying about getting screwed over by bad dice is a great benefit, and +1 stamina is a bonus. I'll take it over 2 movement points any day.

Amoshias, sometimes 3 point abilities are extremly powerful because of how they combine with other skills. You make that point yourself, so I find it a bit weird that you neglect it in some cases here.

Running Shot - At two points, Fleet of Foot is the best movement ability in the game, bar none, and ranks on my top five skills across all classes. For THREE points you can occasionally get a few free movement points? I would never take this ability. But it's not like I would take...

You save stamina. That's for one. Second: 'occasionally'? You do realise most often then not quest objective is a race of sort. Race in which OL is given some monsters to stop heroes for a while. And this can negate it quite a bit. Without any cost. Fleet of foot is great, true, but it has several drawbacks. The most important one I'd say is that it triggers No rest for the wicked (in my opinion one of the greatest OL cards if used correctly, but seems to be underrated a bit here).

However, don't get me started how Running Shot synergises with some scout hero abilities and heroic feats. Brrr, it gives me shivers to think of Logan using it with Bow of the Eclipse.

Black Arrow - by the time you can buy this, it is so ridiculously obsolete... three points of damage? It doesn't counter misses? It only adds two range? It costs a stamina? (Already in high demand because of Fleet of Foot). I would buy any of the wildlander's 2 point abilities rather than any of the 3s.

A bit underwhelming especially after all those expansions and crazy skills we've seen. It's more of a 'make sure that bastard that rolls ridicullous ammount of defense dice dies with this attack(s)'. It doesn't exhaust so you can use it twice in turn to get that 6 pretty much certain damage. I'd say it is extremly useful if you're stuck with a really crappy weapon and can't seem to get proper bow, then it makes sure you aren't completly obselete. But then, you could just focus on search tokens and using Deadly sense, so I'll agree, this one is a bit underwhelming. But not useless.

Valorous Strike - Not bad - I think you're missing the best part about it, which is that Valor tokens are limited, but this uses hearts. But at the same time, it lets you make one big strike per game. Definitely usable , but again, there's a ton of competition at the 2-level for Champions; all 3 2-cost abilties are better than this.

Champion is a bit specific as it's one of the few heroes that really wants to build up his cheaper skills before advancing to the more expensive ones. As you admit later on however, this is the one hardest hitting skills out there, so it has to cost 3 XP.

Death Rage - No, Valorous Strike is the single largest damage potential in the game, because it's essentially unlimited. This costs 2 stamina, a surge, requires that you declare it BEFORE the attack, and requires that you be badly damaged to be good. It's not unusable, but it's worse in every way than Valorous Strike. No, I tell a lie, it's got one big advantage, you can use it twice in one turn (if you've got the stamina, if you roll the surges, etc, etc.) which is definitely worth something. Still, not exciting.

The 'declare attack before you know you have a surge' isn't a problem since berseker has access to Weapon mastery which gives him a surge once per turn. The greatest appeal of it however is that OL will think twice before attacking you. If he focuses fire on you and doesn't manage to KO you (which can easily happen with bad dice rolls) then it'll hurt him a LOT.

Lurk - this ability is terrible . It's not worth 1 point, because it doesn't synergize with your basic Thief ability! If they could be combined it would be a 3-point ability but as it is, 90% of the time the action you " save " by using this will be spent actually MOVING over to the token, which Greedy lets you skip. There are no circumstances under which I would buy this card. (Then again, thief is a totally obsolete class at this point, so why would anyone play Thief anyway...)

Not every skill within class has to synergise with each other. Some give you more options. The biggest advantage here is that you don't need an action: very often there are search tokens in quests that are 'on the path', so getting them without wasting actions IS great since you don't loose on the race. Again, remember that some scout heroes have hero abilities/heroic feats that allow a lot of movement, so it's not necessarily 'effectively the same' . Hell, by simply having 4 movement points you'll do better with a move action and this then by using Greed in 95% of cases.

Radiant Light - I agree, this is insane - insane to buy this. You're buying it over Holy Light, when the whole point of playing a disciple is building up Prayer of Healing to be the most powerful ability in the game. For what? A little extra healing and a piddling amount of damage? If you want to do that choose Spiritspeaker, which does the same thing for 2 XP, so at least it's usable in act 1.

Don't underestimate range being Line of Sight . Also, you don't exhaust Radiant Light on use. If you use a 5 stamina hero and Ring of Power, you can use it twice, which is nowhere near piddling ammount of damage when small monsters are cocnerned. It's likely to kill whole group on it's own (it's direct damage, no defense die against it). As for Spiritspeaker's alternative: only once per turn and you have to pass an attribute test to use it.

Extra attack skills - you list a lot of these. Many classes get them for 2 XP; some classes get them for ONE XP. Very restricted extra attacks like Bushwhack don't excite me for 3. (But, again, thief. Why would you play him.) Quick casting is fine - I would almost always take it, as it's virtually unrestricted. Generally, they're always playable, but again, I'm not going to get excited for 3 when there are classes that get them for 1.

Extra attacks for 1 XP? Are you talking about familiar based classes? Because I can't recall any of those on top of my head other then that. As for Bushwack, remember you can attack during a move action (so move first that you see only your target, BAM, and go further on). It's on par with Quick Casting, you'll be limited in it's use (one because of figure placement, two because of the stamina useage).

Potent Remedies - I honestly have no idea where you're coming from here. It's a fine card. One of the most powerful abilities in the game? It's not even the apothecary's best ability (that would be Bottled Courage - a TOTALLY UNRESTRICTED free attack, WITH A BONUS, for 2 cost - THAT is one of the best abilities in the game, bar none. I can't even think of who else gets an unrestricted extra attack, at ANY cost.)

For the Overlord the best thing about knocking out hero is that heroes waste actions, so that he can get a heads up in the race majority of the quests are. This skill says: 'lol, nope you don't' AND improves healing mechanic of the class.

A bit more on topic: Unstoppable IS powerful, but only for some heroes. You know, I wouldn't bother with it while playing Reynhart, which is the one I pick in these rare instances I'm not the OL. It's hard for me to judge really, I have no idea how the other skills of the skirmisher work so it's rather hard to say. The most important one is: does skirmisher have any skills that discourage OL from attacking him? If not, then it's a weakness OL has to exploit, making skirmisher obvious focus fire target. Using the intended hero for the class, Orkell, might help a bit, but with a simple brown defense die he'll be biting the dust a lot even with his heroic feat.