Hey, guys.

EotE is my first SW tabletop rpg, before then I've only really used rules-heavy systems so sometimes the abstract nature of some of the game's mechanics is lost on me.

Up until recently, my players and I had a thrilling first act where they escaped a detention centre on Coruscant, stole a ship from a sales lot and is now careening through the galaxy with the IMPS hot on their heels.

Cue Beyond the Rim where things have started to get a bit heavier GM wise. The players have gone from being creatively inspired in a desperate Imperial escape to just going through the motions in this adventure. They rarely ever use destiny and prefer to hoard it if they can despite my encouragement, I almost got into an argument recently where a player was making the case that successes were useless over advantage... this was after the player thought that multiple successes = a crit and not just increased damage... idunno, your guess is as good as mine as to how they came to that conclusion.

Overall I feel I am just not making the most out of the advantage and threat results. So I come to ask the legion of experienced GMs here in our community for advice and suggestions which might help me get the ball rolling next time and hopefully make play more exciting for everyone.

I should also add that our numbers have taken a hit recently and there's only three players and myself which I doubt has made things any better.

Ahh, you sound like you need Skill Monkey ! This series of short podcasts details creative use of advantage & threat outside of combat.

Take heart, it does take a little bit to "get" the dice mechanic, even for experienced players. Some things you can try:

• If they're not spending Destiny Points, go ahead and spend the Dark Side ones to get the pool flowing
• Change up the adventure if they're feeling railroaded (I've had a long-standing nemesis start tracking my heroes while they search the planet)

This is important for that success vs. attacks argument:

• Advantage on a successful attack means no damage without at least one un-cancelled success! (Redacted: "means nothing")

• Advantage on a successful attack means nothing without at least one un-cancelled success!

It means a lot actually. You can recover strain, or give your fellows a boost, and in some cases (like grenades) trigger a weapon quality that still might do damage.

I've had issues with Beyond the Rim too, especially Act II (took forever to get through and at times seemed to drag) I'm hoping the action picks up in act III (though it already has a bit since their ship got shot down and crashed on the way to the hideout).

As for advantage, I find it's easy to get in a rut sometimes, especially with use in combat (just use for set back dice, boost dice etc) though I think I'll try to encourage more environmental effects from now on.

• Advantage on a successful attack means nothing without at least one un-cancelled success!

It means a lot actually. You can recover strain, or give your fellows a boost, and in some cases (like grenades) trigger a weapon quality that still might do damage.

Fair point, I was not entirely clear - a billion advantages with no un-cancelled successes means there will be no crit or damage. I was only speaking in the context OP described but yeah I could have been a little more clear!

Your example of a grenade, though, would still yield no damage to the intended target if there were no net successes on the roll, regardless of whether or not the Blast was triggered. I guess much depends on range but the whole point of rolling a success is to determine if you hit at all in my mind.

So yeah, advantages rolled without a success are certainly highly useful, my bad!

• If they're not spending Destiny Points, go ahead and spend the Dark Side ones to get the pool flowing

Unless the players see the hording as a way to avoid potential Despairs.

If that's the case just suggest if the players aren't going to use them, you can just drop the mechanic and upgrade check difficulties based on your mood instead of available Points.

It sounds like you might just need to shake it up in some way, to clear the air and maybe reset expectations.

How is your narration of the stuff that happens?

Do you provide great examples of exciting ways to interpret the dice rolls? Do you get really creative with your narration, with your terrain, with your adversaries?

How well do you support the PCs' individual styles and specialties in your encounter and adventure design?

For example, when I know that I have a PC who is a charming guy and his player is an enthusiastic roleplayer, I might work opportunities to flirt with or charm people into the adventure.

For each player, there are probably one or two things that player wants to feel really badass at. Something they want to imagine themselves doing in slow motion, with heroic music swelling, the kind of thing that people talk about after the session is over.

It might help to think specifically about those things for each player and find a way to give them those sensations in your game.

If your players are bored of Beyond the Rim, you might even just blow it up in some way. Come up with a big idea you think they might like instead, and just literally start that adventure in place of Beyond the Rim.

Maybe the Imperials they escaped from have tracked them down on Cholganna, and the Imps swoop in and blow up everything at Harsol's camp, then pursue the PCs. Maybe they captured Reom and he sold the PCs out.

Alternately, you could think in some more detail about stuff your players might respond to within the Beyond the Rim adventure, and prepare a bunch of fun ideas about the encounters, whether it's cool jungle stuff or crazy roleplaying with Harsol, or whatever.

When I feel like a session was lackluster, I will sit down and be more deliberate about the next session--thinking of cool stuff to do with Triumphs and Despairs, thinking of ways to hook the PCs' Obligation and Motivation and background into the adventure.

Those are just some thoughts! Best of luck.

Try looking at advantages, threat, triumphs, and despairs as a collaborative effort. As the GM you're the ultimate arbiter of what happens in the game, but advantages/triumphs are the players to spend. Player s . They can collaborate to decide "What's the best outcome for this roll? That happens." Get them to work together on it figuring out good things that happen for them.

Likewise, when players roll threat/despair, that can also be a group effort. "What's the worst thing that can happen to Jim?" can be a great way to get the group thinking together narratively for what happens to Jim when he horribly **** up his Coordination roll. This kind of thing works best outside of combat, but you can use it there too.

As far as players hoarding Destiny Points, give them a strong motivation to spend them. The rulebook says they're supposed to be trading hands frequently throughout the session and if they're not doing that they're not being good sports. Start upgrading rolls without adding to their pool. Make narrative declarations that are bad for the players that they can undo by spending a destiny point, or not-so-subtly suggest "this situation sure would be easier if X, which can be true for the low, low cost of 1 destiny point". A lot of talents require a destiny point to activate - put them in situations where they're going to want to do that (and remind them that they can do that).

I also recommend Skill Monkey.

Like cps advised, you could also offer possible outcomes that could result from a Triumph, especially for rolls that don't have any yellow dice already.

Or put them in situations where they might need a thing they didn't have before. "The aqualish with the data stick dives into the water and swims away. You could pursue him if you had a rebreather. Maybe you'd like to flip a Destiny Point to remember you packed one?"

I've had issues with Beyond the Rim too, especially Act II (took forever to get through and at times seemed to drag)

that's a real shame. our table is having an absolute blast. so far we've had 3 x 4 hour sessions with BtR and the players have only just been escorted into the Retreat. we only have 3 players and a GM, so that shouldn't be an issue for the OP. there is a thread on these forums specifically about Beyond the Rim that the OP should read for specific inspiration.

found it! linked

I've had issues with Beyond the Rim too, especially Act II (took forever to get through and at times seemed to drag)

that's a real shame. our table is having an absolute blast. so far we've had 3 x 4 hour sessions with BtR and the players have only just been escorted into the Retreat. we only have 3 players and a GM, so that shouldn't be an issue for the OP. there is a thread on these forums specifically about Beyond the Rim that the OP should read for specific inspiration.

found it! linked

Yeah, I wish I had read through that thread before running BtR. Some great ideas in there.

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys, it's been real helpful. I'll admit my narrating capabilities were considerably better when I was writing my own material and I think that Beyond the Rim's lack of detail leaves me a bit hesitant to take liberties with what -is- there. Which is completely illogical I know since adventures rarely go as planned anyway... regardless, you've all given me a lot to think about and to read up on so far which is great!

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys, it's been real helpful. I'll admit my narrating capabilities were considerably better when I was writing my own material and I think that Beyond the Rim's lack of detail leaves me a bit hesitant to take liberties with what -is- there.

Someone told me fear leads to the dark side. Nobody will know if you chuck every last detail from BtR and fill in your own.....

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys, it's been real helpful. I'll admit my narrating capabilities were considerably better when I was writing my own material and I think that Beyond the Rim's lack of detail leaves me a bit hesitant to take liberties with what -is- there.

Someone told me fear leads to the dark side. Nobody will know if you chuck every last detail from BtR and fill in your own.....

Well I would hope they wouldn't...!

The skill system can become quite mechanical.

Keep the rules in mind, but don't follow them mechanically > I think like you my first session was one of the ones we enjoyed the most because we didn't have any idea as to how to spend advantage or triump. We just invented cool effects and VERY cool effects.

So forget the mechanics and remember cool!!

EoE is a system that benefits from quick, concise decisions, kind of a controlled (and embellished) knee jerk reaction to the drama present at the table. Each encounter needs to be a rush, a challenge for the character to tackle, and every single advantage that he or she rolls should be spent in whatever manner gives them a edge over the challenge at hand.

Oftentimes, the players need a slight push to get into this mindset, the understanding that a advantage symbol means, "now you tell the story" or "how do you gain this advantage?" I try and get them to think dynamically about what they want to do cinematically. It's their call, and once they realize the kind of fun this can be, its infectious.

Example: "You've succeeded!Do you want to spend those advantages to crit? recover strain? Or maybe you could spend four of those advantage to ricochet your shot off the stormtrooper and do damage elsewhere?

You may also start spending the threats the enemy NPCs generate to dramatic effect and teach the players by example that they could be doing the same. I think of it this way; EoE is the only system where a number on a die doesn't dictate what happens, here, the action flies as fast and furious as we can imagine.

Every skill check should be a rush. Recovering strain, and passing dice, and critting is of course important, but those little advantage symbols and destiny point set this system creatively apart from all others.

As for the group not spending or using Destiny points, a simple nudge or encouragement often helps, if not, making a skill check or two that require the destiny pool might also get the ball rolling on regular usage, its give adn take not horde and spend.

Hope that was of some small help, good luck cableton!