Make it part of the tournament kit and let the FLGS adjust the entry fee accordingly.

Although I don't have much patience for someone who'll complain about a once-every-two-years 'mandatory' expansion and then drop $100 bucks for ships he won't use just to get one extra card from each for his uber-list.

The other option would be to add dice to a critical via a chart: So no new cards needed

Lets say you take a critical hit card and get ship. Counts as 2 damage

With the extra rules you could say:

When a card is drawn ignore the card and consult the Damage table cross referencing the type of critical it is:

Roll a attack die:

Critical Type: ship

Hit: Count as 2 damage

Critical: Engine Thrusters Destroyed, only 1 and 2 maneuver from now on.

Blank: Crew Killed, if you have a crew member remove 1. Otherwise suffer 2 damage

Focus: Energy Generator damaged. Subtract 1 from your agility for the rest of the game.

You could do something like this for every card in the game, then each tourny could decide whether to use cards on this special damage result table.

It could work and would not require everyone to get new cards?

Every Core Set comes with a UPC. Mail it in, get your updated damage deck. Done.

Wellp! My reasons are no longer relevant. If this was implemented, bring it on. I'm game.

I think if FFG were to expand the damage deck, they would do it this way:

• Print entire damage deck at once — the original 33 cards, plus the additional cards.
• Make the backs of the cards different, perhaps a different color, to differentiate the "new, legal" damage deck from the old one.
• Release the new damage deck in a large expansion with a ship, perhaps with a huge Imperial ship, as opposed to just selling a damage deck on its own.

I think it would be neat if FFG did this, too.

Am I the only one who thinks asking FFG to give out a free damage deck is dumb? Granted, a deck of 17 mini cards should be cheap, but then why can't we just buy them ourselves? I'm pretty sure that everyone who plays this game seriously spends at least 50 bucks on each wave, what's wrong with asking like 5 bucks more for an expansion?

Release the new damage deck in a large expansion with a ship, perhaps with a huge Imperial ship, as opposed to just selling a damage deck on its own.

And now everyone is forced to buy that expansion if they want to keep playing, even if they don't want the ship itself.

You can't make an expansion required to play, even in a tournament.

I'm pretty sure that everyone who plays this game seriously spends at least 50 bucks on each wave, what's wrong with asking like 5 bucks more for an expansion?

Why should I have to pay more to keep playing the same game? I may or may not spend money on any one given wave, but if I do, I'm getting ships and upgrades and such. I don't have to buy those things to keep playing. I shouldn't have to spend 5 bucks a year just to keep playing with the stuff I already have.

I mean I can walk into any game store, or tournament with a set of wave 1 ships I got when the game first came out, having not spent a single dime on the game since then, and still be allowed to play.

I would think the only way for fundamental changes in game play like this would be to release a new edition of the Core set. Maybe with new ships or pilot cards.

All in all it's not very likely to happen soon, if ever... many gamers forget that FFG is a business and they will not release anything if it won't generate revenue and a thing like a card pack doesn't seem fit in their marketing strategy for X-wing. I'm guessing because they have determined that card packs alone aren't worth the trouble and that is likely because the profit margin isn't there.

Why should I have to pay more to keep playing the same game? I may or may not spend money on any one given wave, but if I do, I'm getting ships and upgrades and such. I don't have to buy those things to keep playing. I shouldn't have to spend 5 bucks a year just to keep playing with the stuff I already have.

You only have to pay more to keep playing the game *in sanctioned tournaments*. A $15 every two years 'tax' on the tournament players that gets the entire player-base something neat is a no-brainer, IMO.

Neat, But i strongly disagree. I'm sure people will spend the Money regardless, hell i would, but its more the principle of the thing. This game is designed to be played with whatever ship you've purchased. There are a lot of people who play casually and dont own every single ship/ Especially multiples of 1.

Don't mean to offend but giving them away at tournaments is really dumb. what happens when someone new wants to play or is just getting started. Well you dont have the new deck because you didn't play in last years tourney sorry. Makes no sense to me. Also I cant see them just giving them away either. The only thing i can think of is mailing in of the UPC, but even then that's a crap shoot. People who didnt buy the core set or spilt with a buddy etc. etc. At a business standpoint they won't do it.

Like i said it would be really cool if they did, or even if every ship got its own unique damage deck, But the problem with most of the peoples answers or solutions (To problems that dont exist mind you.) is they are trying to complicate a game that doesn't need more complex Tables or rules.

THE REASON THE GAME IS FUN IS BECAUSE ITS SIMPLE!!!!!1one

I would think the only way for fundamental changes in game play like this would be to release a new edition of the Core set. Maybe with new ships or pilot cards.

All in all it's not very likely to happen soon, if ever... many gamers forget that FFG is a business and they will not release anything if it won't generate revenue and a thing like a card pack doesn't seem fit in their marketing strategy for X-wing. I'm guessing because they have determined that card packs alone aren't worth the trouble and that is likely because the profit margin isn't there.

This would be the same FFG that's put out a booster pack of cards for every class variation in the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG?

You only have to pay more to keep playing the game *in sanctioned tournaments*.

But that's still a change in how things currently work. I don't have to pay anything to play in a sanctioned tournament now. Why should FFG change that? More to the point, it seems to go against their policy of giving you everything you need to play in each expansion.

Myself I'd have no issue spending $5 on a new damage deck. My issue is the idea that I'd be forced to buy something new to play in a tournament, when right now there is no such requirement. Especially when doing so wouldn't have a huge effect on the game in the first place.

There are so, so many reasons why I am against this. Why is the current damage deck insufficient?

Why is the current damage deck insufficient?

It's not really, but that isn't a reason in of itself to not do something. I mean if it's not broke, don't fix it is fine, but just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved.

I can see why adding in something that takes out system upgrades or modifications make sense. These things are immune to crits right now. Maybe they should be, maybe they are only because they didn't exist when they designed the crits in the first place.

I wouldn't be against a new damage deck, I'd just be against having to pay for one.

I would think the only way for fundamental changes in game play like this would be to release a new edition of the Core set. Maybe with new ships or pilot cards.

All in all it's not very likely to happen soon, if ever... many gamers forget that FFG is a business and they will not release anything if it won't generate revenue and a thing like a card pack doesn't seem fit in their marketing strategy for X-wing. I'm guessing because they have determined that card packs alone aren't worth the trouble and that is likely because the profit margin isn't there.

This would be the same FFG that's put out a booster pack of cards for every class variation in the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG?

I am ignorant of the other product lineups they have and how those are marketed, so it's likely that my reasoning is inaccurate. That said, they haven't released card packs, but instead have used upgrade cards to drive model/card set sales. My point is that for X-wing, based on past releases; card packs do not appear as part of their marketing strategy for whatever reason.

This would be the same FFG that's put out a booster pack of cards for every class variation in the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG?

I am ignorant of the other product lineups they have and how those are marketed, so it's likely that my reasoning is inaccurate.

I think the point Rodrigo was making isn't really valid.

Releasing more cards for a Living Card Game, that tie into a RPG they produce makes perfect sense from a marketing stand point. That's the whole point of the game, to produce cards for people to buy. So making more of them simply makes sense. The game lives and dies on people buying cards .

In X-Wing however the game lives and dies on people buying models . So releasing a card pack with no models, opposed to releasing both new and old cards as part of a model makes much more sense for X-Wing.

There's a fairly simple solution to this issue. With each and every miniature sold, not only should the mini's come with the expected upgrade cards, pilot cards etc, but there should also be included 2-3 new damage cards. Of course not everyone will have the same mini's at the table, thus not everyone will have the same complement of damage cards, but it would be interesting to see new damage cards.

I've found that many times there just aren't ENOUGH damage cards in the deck, especially if you are playing against someone who hasn't brought their own set and depending on the size of the fleet you are fielding (obviously this applies more to casual play than anything else).

Another option would be for FFG to supply any stores that are planning to host a tournament with the extra damage decks. That way if someone already has one (from a previous store game, or mailing in the UPC or whatever) they don't need another, but if someone DIDN'T, they now have one.

The main problem with this being that someone who isn't used to the extra cards might be at a disadvantage, depending on which cards were chosen to be in the extra deck.

I am ignorant of the other product lineups they have and how those are marketed, so it's likely that my reasoning is inaccurate. That said, they haven't released card packs, but instead have used upgrade cards to drive model/card set sales. My point is that for X-wing, based on past releases; card packs do not appear as part of their marketing strategy for whatever reason.

I don't know that they're *opposed* to card expansions. I wouldn't be surprised if they were opposed for monetary reasons to card-only expansions that mirrored what came with the ship expansions.

But X-Wing is extremely modular; the only thing that you use every single time is the templates/range ruler, and the damage deck. I don't see the base templates changing (and if they did, it would be for a specific ship and the template could be included, a la the huge ships). So the damage deck is the only thing from the base set that lends itself to universal updating.

In retrospect, they could have stuck a 'base set' icon in the corner of the base damage deck, and included tagged damage cards with each ship expansion keyed to that ship (eg, a damage card with the 'system upgrade' icon that came with the B-Wing). Then, when you assembled your damage deck, you'd shuffle in the cards from whatever ships you were running. A missed opportunity, I guess.

thus not everyone will have the same complement of damage cards

This doesn't work.

First off you're throwing off the odds on what cards you'll draw, now you can have fewer Direct Hit cards in your desk then I do.

Second, the TO has to check each and every damage deck to make sure it's legal.

Third, how many of each crit do you add?

Lets say they add a crit card that removes system upgrades with the E-Wing, and I add them to my deck. Now I have 3 of those cards in my deck, but you are an Imperial and don't buy any E-Wings. Now you have 3 fewer cards in your deck then I do.

If I buy 6 Z-95's do I have to add all the crit cards that come with them to my deck? Or do I only add ones from my list? Which goes back to point 2.

This would be the same FFG that's put out a booster pack of cards for every class variation in the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG?

I am ignorant of the other product lineups they have and how those are marketed, so it's likely that my reasoning is inaccurate.

I think the point Rodrigo was making isn't really valid.

Releasing more cards for a Living Card Game, that tie into a RPG they produce makes perfect sense from a marketing stand point. That's the whole point of the game, to produce cards for people to buy. So making more of them simply makes sense. The game lives and dies on people buying cards .

In X-Wing however the game lives and dies on people buying models . So releasing a card pack with no models, opposed to releasing both new and old cards as part of a model makes much more sense for X-Wing.

This has nothing to do with the card game; these are decks that have the talents available to specific classes in the role-playing game. They're utterly optional and merely present existing information in a different format.

They're utterly optional and merely present existing information in a different format.

That's a quite old concept, they did that back in 2nd edition D&D I believe even.

But it still doesn't apply to how they market the X-Wing miniatures game, which is based on selling models, not cards.

For RPG's it has always been an issue of how to produce more stuff for people to buy when all you really need is 2 or 3 books, for a whole group of people.

They're utterly optional and merely present existing information in a different format.

That's a quite old concept, they did that back in 2nd edition D&D I believe even.

But it still doesn't apply to how they market the X-Wing miniatures game, which is based on selling models, not cards.

For RPG's it has always been an issue of how to produce more stuff for people to buy when all you really need is 2 or 3 books, for a whole group of people.

For nearly every game ever made it's been an issue of how to produce more stuff for people to buy. How many people have bought extra ships they'll never fly to get cards they use on other ships?

The point I was addressing was the concept that FFG wouldn't do stand-alone decks for a non-card game, and that's patently false. They'll do it if they think they can make money off it.

with the extension system as it is now, it's probably easier (consistent/whatever) to extend the damage system than just adding to or replacing the current deck.

E.g., one could think of per ship personalized damage cards with new ships (and a fitting rule on when to pick which card).

This way the current deck doesn't need to be replaced/updated and still new damage variants can be introduced with their respective ships.

It would fit their general strategy of changing stuff by adding stuff.

They'll do it if they think they can make money off it.

Ok, that I agree with.

But the point JFunk was making was that the card only pack doesn't seem to fit with how X-Wing is marketed. Using an example of a different game that got a card only pack doesn't really support doing one for X-Wing because you're comparing apples to oranges.

There is no good way for FFG to do this as a moneymaking venture, short of allowing cuatomized damage decks based on fleet. It would have to work something like. Keep all direct hits, and a few others. Then add 1 left engine failure for each rebel ship, 2 turret malfunctions for each Yt 1300, and remove all life support failures and console fires if fielding tie fighters. Except the list would be incredibly long and obnoxious to use. But hey, my Tid fighters and their lack lf breathable air would stop getting bloody conaole fires.