...if you're saying healing isn't important, please play any MMORPG raid and then come back here and tell us your experiences .

Well, yeah--tough to win a typical raid without at least one dedicated healer. I played a MT in WoW for a long time, and of course the healer was my best friend. Not only could raid bosses knock down a substantial portion of my hp in a single hit, but the healer could put the same back, which meant .

But there's a lot of specialized design stuff going on in the background to make the healer's role viable and important, and X-wing doesn't have any of that with respect to the A-wing--which personally I've always regarded as sort of an adorable mascot.

Anyway, all very off-topic. (c:

As for the /x1 vs. 2 /ln comment, I was stating that during W1, it wasn't worth it to pay 25 points for an /x1 over 2 /ln. That is still true today. However, you now have the /sa sitting at 16 points, 20 with a missile. It is clearly an inferior ship than the /x1, both from a survivability stand point, as well as a dial point of view.

Strictly inferior durability, but not very inferior, and at about 75% of the price the Bomber's defense is so much more efficient. But that's why I think you're completely right about the effect of reducing the cost of the Advanced.

I like the idea of a sensor upgrade, but I'm unsure how much it will add to the /x1 without new cards. PS0 during activation isn't particularly useful since they've never really been blockers (though it could potentially make a new niche for them... and with BR, they could possibly be good at it), AdvS is nice sure, but they're not going to be actively blocked since they're not an offensive weapon, and they're too slow to get behind where they're running into the back of the opponents ships. SJ - this is already a very defensive ship, I don't really see any added benefit to SJ on the ship. Which leaves FCS. And on a 2 attack ship, it's kinda useless imo. 25% of the time that you have a TL you aren't going to spend it anyways... and TL+F only adds .38 extra hits (.03-.21 extra damage depending on agi dice and actions). It's also not useful for stacking TL+F for missiles, unless you don't use them on your opening turn. I feel like sensor upgrade would be better on a bomber, making for chain ordnance strikes easier.

The FCS would allow the Advanced to continually stack TL+F, though, meaning that it would be better at Cluster Missiles (Range 3 attack gains free TL, close to Range 1, fire clusters with focus for the first attack and TL for the second--and then another free TL if your target isn't dead, which you can use after a K-turn if you care to joust). And a free Enhanced Scopes would make the Advanced a fairly special blocker on the Imperial side, since its maneuverability is considerably better than the Lambda's.

And Advanced Sensors is so good it's nearly broken... so really any sensor system has more to offer the Advanced than it appears at first glance.

Someone in our LGS casually remarked that the Advanced would 'need' a free barrel roll.

So a move, an action, then a barrel roll. (if un-stressed!)

I am too new at the game to see all it's consequences (good or bad)

So just tossing the idea as a sheep among you wolves.

Someone in our LGS casually remarked that the Advanced would 'need' a free barrel roll.

So a move, an action, then a barrel roll. (if un-stressed!)

I am too new at the game to see all it's consequences (good or bad)

So just tossing the idea as a sheep among you wolves.

herm... interesting thought. It would be like a PTL lite, allowing you to BR if it's beneficial with no downside, but not token stack. But then again, Vader gets 3 actions now... (4 if you give him PTL!) And he's more likely to have EU and DD... So he could theoretically 2 turn, boost, barrel roll, and then DD. Oh myyyy... Who knows where he'd end up! Honestly, I don't think this is such a bad idea. It could be worded along the lines of "after preforming an action, preform a free barrel roll action." So you can't use it to get in R3 for a TL since you'd have to TL first... but it would also be usable after SL or something.

Someone in our LGS casually remarked that the Advanced would 'need' a free barrel roll.

So a move, an action, then a barrel roll. (if un-stressed!)

I am too new at the game to see all it's consequences (good or bad)

So just tossing the idea as a sheep among you wolves.

herm... interesting thought. It would be like a PTL lite, allowing you to BR if it's beneficial with no downside, but not token stack. But then again, Vader gets 3 actions now... (4 if you give him PTL!) And he's more likely to have EU and DD... So he could theoretically 2 turn, boost, barrel roll, and then DD. Oh myyyy... Who knows where he'd end up! Honestly, I don't think this is such a bad idea. It could be worded along the lines of "after preforming an action, preform a free barrel roll action." So you can't use it to get in R3 for a TL since you'd have to TL first... but it would also be usable after SL or something.

I think the idea was to allow the BR *only* if/when not stressed. So no combining with PTL.

not sure if Vader was meant to be included but it sure would make him even more awesome!

Perhaps this could come at the expense of the missile slot?

(lighter load or something?)

I love the idea of a Title card giving the Advanced the ability to use System Upgrades. I also understand why people think the Advanced is overpriced. The truth of the mater is, it is an amazing missile delivery system. Missiles are a gamble in this game, and even though the Advanced is a better dog fighter than the A-wing, the cost of its toughness doesn't jive well with modern meta.

I have posted ideas for a possible Advanced Aces expansion here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/101881-playtesting-advanced-aces-help-shape-an-idea/

It has my ideas of pilots and upgrade cards.

I love the idea of a Title card giving the Advanced the ability to use System Upgrades. I also understand why people think the Advanced is overpriced. The truth of the mater is, it is an amazing missile delivery system. Missiles are a gamble in this game, and even though the Advanced is a better dog fighter than the A-wing, the cost of its toughness doesn't jive well with modern meta.

I have posted ideas for a possible Advanced Aces expansion here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/101881-playtesting-advanced-aces-help-shape-an-idea/

It has my ideas of pilots and upgrade cards.

Oh? How is the Advanced a better dog fighter than the A wing? The only thing the Advanced has that the A doesn't is the (green) 1 bank. Meanwhile, the A has the (white) 1 turn. And the 2 bank+turn are green on the A... as well as the 4+5 straight. Not to mention it has 3K or 5K, while the /x1 only has a single choice of 4K. Though I suppose it does have the BR while the A has the boost. But for 21 points, your A could have a (stressful) BR as well. It's not like the Tempest has an EPT or anything anyways. And we can add a HU to the A wing as well, bringing the cost to 24 vs. the Storm Squadron's 23. It's -1 PS, +1 cost, better dial, boost, same hull/shields/agility/attack/upgrade slots (actually, the /x1 would still have an open mod slot)...

Seems to me that the A wing is the better dog fighter. But maybe the fact that you CAN equip PTL means that no one equips EH and therefore, the /x1 can be better due to the BR.

It's overcosted by 3+ points relative to the TIE Fighter. See my Lanchester's thread. It's the best formula yet that anyone has made to predict balanced ship costs. Sorry xanderf. It has limitations, but at a minimum you can look at the TIE Advanced's jousting efficiency and realize that it's essentially useless.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/100360-using-lanchesters-square-law-to-predict-ships-jousting-values-and-fair-point-values-work-in-progress/?view=findpost&p=1000109

It is essentially useless for jousting . That is not the same thing as being useless for playing X-wing...

Frankly, your thread is pseudo-science. A younger me would spend days explaining everything you have wrong. It's a clever fiction you've invented, and not totally without merit - but it's still fiction.

It's overcosted by 3+ points relative to the TIE Fighter. See my Lanchester's thread. It's the best formula yet that anyone has made to predict balanced ship costs. Sorry xanderf. It has limitations, but at a minimum you can look at the TIE Advanced's jousting efficiency and realize that it's essentially useless.

It is essentially useless for jousting . That is not the same thing as being useless for playing X-wing...

Frankly, your thread is pseudo-science. A younger me would spend days explaining everything you have wrong. It's a clever fiction you've invented, and not totally without merit - but it's still fiction.

There are a lot of ways to judge the value of a ship, of which repeated playtesting is the most reliable and arguably the most valid; playtesting says the Advanced typically doesn't return your investment in it. To that extent, at least, MajorJuggler is right.

I love the idea of a Title card giving the Advanced the ability to use System Upgrades. I also understand why people think the Advanced is overpriced. The truth of the mater is, it is an amazing missile delivery system. Missiles are a gamble in this game, and even though the Advanced is a better dog fighter than the A-wing, the cost of its toughness doesn't jive well with modern meta.

I have posted ideas for a possible Advanced Aces expansion here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/101881-playtesting-advanced-aces-help-shape-an-idea/

It has my ideas of pilots and upgrade cards.

Oh? How is the Advanced a better dog fighter than the A wing? The only thing the Advanced has that the A doesn't is the (green) 1 bank. Meanwhile, the A has the (white) 1 turn. And the 2 bank+turn are green on the A... as well as the 4+5 straight. Not to mention it has 3K or 5K, while the /x1 only has a single choice of 4K. Though I suppose it does have the BR while the A has the boost. But for 21 points, your A could have a (stressful) BR as well. It's not like the Tempest has an EPT or anything anyways. And we can add a HU to the A wing as well, bringing the cost to 24 vs. the Storm Squadron's 23. It's -1 PS, +1 cost, better dial, boost, same hull/shields/agility/attack/upgrade slots (actually, the /x1 would still have an open mod slot)...

Seems to me that the A wing is the better dog fighter. But maybe the fact that you CAN equip PTL means that no one equips EH and therefore, the /x1 can be better due to the BR.

The a wing has only 2 hull and cannot barrel roll. So, yeah the Advanced is a better dogfighter.

I love the idea of a Title card giving the Advanced the ability to use System Upgrades. I also understand why people think the Advanced is overpriced. The truth of the mater is, it is an amazing missile delivery system. Missiles are a gamble in this game, and even though the Advanced is a better dog fighter than the A-wing, the cost of its toughness doesn't jive well with modern meta.

I have posted ideas for a possible Advanced Aces expansion here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/101881-playtesting-advanced-aces-help-shape-an-idea/

It has my ideas of pilots and upgrade cards.

Oh? How is the Advanced a better dog fighter than the A wing? The only thing the Advanced has that the A doesn't is the (green) 1 bank. Meanwhile, the A has the (white) 1 turn. And the 2 bank+turn are green on the A... as well as the 4+5 straight. Not to mention it has 3K or 5K, while the /x1 only has a single choice of 4K. Though I suppose it does have the BR while the A has the boost.

The a wing has only 2 hull and cannot barrel roll. So, yeah the Advanced is a better dogfighter.

Emphasis mine.

Barrel roll isn't a bad ability, but it just slides you a bit left or right - it doesn't materially change where you are AIMING. Boost is the more powerful ability, and the A-Wing can boost while the TIE Advanced cannot.

I love the idea of a Title card giving the Advanced the ability to use System Upgrades. I also understand why people think the Advanced is overpriced. The truth of the mater is, it is an amazing missile delivery system. Missiles are a gamble in this game, and even though the Advanced is a better dog fighter than the A-wing, the cost of its toughness doesn't jive well with modern meta.

I have posted ideas for a possible Advanced Aces expansion here: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/101881-playtesting-advanced-aces-help-shape-an-idea/

It has my ideas of pilots and upgrade cards.

Oh? How is the Advanced a better dog fighter than the A wing? The only thing the Advanced has that the A doesn't is the (green) 1 bank. Meanwhile, the A has the (white) 1 turn. And the 2 bank+turn are green on the A... as well as the 4+5 straight. Not to mention it has 3K or 5K, while the /x1 only has a single choice of 4K. Though I suppose it does have the BR while the A has the boost.

The a wing has only 2 hull and cannot barrel roll. So, yeah the Advanced is a better dogfighter.

Emphasis mine.

Barrel roll isn't a bad ability, but it just slides you a bit left or right - it doesn't materially change where you are AIMING. Boost is the more powerful ability, and the A-Wing can boost while the TIE Advanced cannot.

It's overcosted by 3+ points relative to the TIE Fighter. See my Lanchester's thread. It's the best formula yet that anyone has made to predict balanced ship costs. Sorry xanderf. It has limitations, but at a minimum you can look at the TIE Advanced's jousting efficiency and realize that it's essentially useless.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/100360-using-lanchesters-square-law-to-predict-ships-jousting-values-and-fair-point-values-work-in-progress/?view=findpost&p=1000109

It is essentially useless for jousting . That is not the same thing as being useless for playing X-wing...

Frankly, your thread is pseudo-science. A younger me would spend days explaining everything you have wrong. It's a clever fiction you've invented, and not totally without merit - but it's still fiction.

You're right, many of the points past the jousting calculations are pseudo-science. And the model is not nearly as useful on ships that have unique capabilities (YT-1300, Firespray, HWK-290, Shuttle, Defender, Phantom), since they have unique coefficients that you can't cross-correlate with other ships. There's a couple areas that I plan on improving and quantifying better, namely the dial coefficients. I'm doing my EE PhD so am well aware of the difference in hard science and pseudo science. This obviously cannot be defended like, say, my dissertation is. But feedback is always welcome.

But, that doesn't change that it's still the best currently available formula to predict ship value, and it has a very respectable correlation with reality. You are free to improve on it or develop your own system if you have a better idea.

What's particularly relevant in this case though, is that the TIE Advanced's capabilities are fairly "ordinary" compared to the standard TIE Fighter, and are far less exotic than many other ships. Target Lock and a missile slot are about the only difference (along with a downgrade to the dial), so the jousting value by itself is a more useful figure of merit for the TIE Advanced than it is for, say, the E-wing that has a droid slot and a system upgrade.

Avenger Redesign

TIE Advanced only. Title.

Your upgrade bar gains the upgrade icon.

This card has a negative squad point cost.

(-3 points)

This would fix the TIE Advanced, I think. And I'm still hoping for a resculpt to be released that looks like the TIE Avenger.

But then again, it wouldn't, not really. Because you'd need to buy a couple of the expansions that this title card ships in if you'd want to field more than one..

FFG'd then have to intentionally design overcosted new pilots to ensure they wouldn't be undercosted with the title card.

It'd be easier to create new pilots at the proper cost (you'll be creating new pilots anyway) and add a modification that would let the Advanced more competitive and keep the title in reserve for something special (maybe to bring Vader back to the table "When defending, if your ship is hit, you may immediately perform a free barrel roll action while shouting NOOOOOOO" ).

Isn't it difficult to say these things based on the fact the game is a dice rolling setup? The entire value of a ship is based on how well you can use it during a match. But since the usage may vary based on how well you roll your dice, along with the person you are having a match with. This could effectively make your ship less or more effective, correct?

You might take the Tie Advanced out, Vader and he shoots down three ships. You rolled all hits when attacking, the opponent rolled all blanks. You rolled all evades/focus and took evade token plus focus in order to dodge fire. While your opponent rolled alot of focus and blanks on attack dice? You deem the Vader is good and earned his point, but really? You can't tell how effective the ship is that way, correct?

I would like to think that the idea the Tie Advanced is over-cost is because of lack of proper usage of the Tie Advanced. Not to mention the bad luck from the times people have used it. To follow along on the idea though, if we take into account other ships in the game.

Couldn't you say the B-wing is under-cost and should be increased? You could argue that based on the point cost and success of the B-wing in a general sense am I right? A Dagger Squadron Pilot is only 24 points, PS4 for a 1 agility, 3 hull, 3 attack, and 5 shield ship. Sure it moves worse than the X-Wing. A Red Squadron Pilot is PS4, cost you 23 points with 3 hull, 3 attack, 2 agility, 2 shields. But you only pay 1 more point and 1 less agility dice for 3 more shields, plus a barrel roll action on top of it all. What does that tell you about how much point cost and being under-cost/over-cost means in this game?

Point for Point the Tie Advanced is equal to the X-wing, but instead of three Attack it gets three Agility. It trades the Astromech Upgrade for the Evade Action and the Barrel Roll Action in terms of equality for each ship. Simply because it offers another method of flying in the fights, mobility and agility versus raw attack power. Yes, there are not as MANY Tie Advanced pilots compared to the X-wings. This is more likely due to Lore, as FFG has been trying to stick to Lore. Maybe though, once their big ships come out, we will see more Tie Advanced pilots along with the big Imperial ship?

Maybe people should just think about how the Tie Advanced should be use in general and what style of play to fly it in. If you load up Vader with Daredevil, Engine Upgrade. You can make him more flexible than any other fighter in the game. Taking a Daredevil Action after his movement, followed by a Barrel Roll or Boost Action. It can make him an even more nasty dogfighter that can get out of the way and behind any other ship. The Imperials also still have the advantage of lower cost units, meaning you back up the Tie Advanced with many other units to aid in destroying the Rebels.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think there are some good points to that. I don't think the Tie Advanced is over-cost, I think people expect it to be used like other Tie Fighters. The Tie Advanced, doesn't fit the staple flying style of massing units and swarming. Because the Tie Advanced is so close in cost to the X-wing, simple as that. It means you need to find a different way to fly it, and use it in combat to make it work in a way that makes you happy.

Here's my take on the x1.

Thematically, I think it's right where it needs to be. It never was a fleet ship. They were never really produced in large numbers because of the cost. It is slightly less maneuverable than the Tie but had shields & a better targeting package. Vader was really the only one to use it all the time so as long he is viable and good, I see no problem. I suppose it could be a point or two cheaper but I think it's about right. Although, it probably should have had the sensor icon from the get go.

One of the things I really applaud FFG for is how they translated the ships into cardboard & plastic. As a giant SW geek, I really felt that each ship flys & feels like it's onscreen and EU counterparts. The advanced just wasn't an effective ship outside of Vader's hands.

Now, I don't play competitively so that may be why I think the advance is fine (also may be why I have 3 of them ). I just don't see the need for all the advance pilots to be as competitive in a tournament setting as some of the other ships. But hey, to each is own. I certainly wouldn't complain and would play with any refits or changes FFG feels is necessary.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Isn't it difficult to say these things based on the fact the game is a dice rolling setup? The entire value of a ship is based on how well you can use it during a match. But since the usage may vary based on how well you roll your dice, along with the person you are having a match with. This could effectively make your ship less or more effective, correct?

No. Not on average. That's what my Lanchester's thread is all about. You can quantify the average damage outputs and durability based on the number of their dice and hull / shields. This gets you the raw "jousting" values, before you consider non quantifiable factors like the dial and upgrade slots.

The TIE Advanced's jousting value says that its efficiency is in the low 80%'s compared to a TIE Fighter. (Small base) ships below 90% are basically not very competitive, and the TIE Advanced is at the very extreme end of the range, when you look at the distribution of the ships.

Point for Point the Tie Advanced is equal to the X-wing, but instead of three Attack it gets three Agility.

And this is the problem in that the game, competitively, is time limited and therefore offense oriented.

The TIE Advanced isn't overcosted or inefficient.

It is a defensively oriented fighter.

It's a turtle, and the existing tournament format may as well be renamed "**** turtles!"

It is at least as cost efficient as an X-wing and probably moreso. The strategies & tactics at which it is most efficient are not practical on a 75 minute timer, especially where a Modified win is worth less.

That's not actually the case, though.

I mean, you are right, it's VERY close to the X-Wing. EXTREMELY close, in fact - the dials are virtually identical, even (move the center column of the X-Wing "forward one", and *boom*, identical dials).

I'd posted a more complete analysis over on BGG - worth a read, as it goes into more detail . However, the take-away is that, even accounting for the fact that the TIE Advanced is built on a defensive strategy, rather than offensive, it still fails to justify its cost. Primarily for two reasons:

- Attack dice are better than defense dice. This isn't a hypothetical "the best defense is a good offense" argument, but that attack dice have only 2 blanks, while defense dice have 3. An equal number of attack+defense dice between two craft, with the balance one way on one ship vs the other...is a substantial advantage to the ship that balances in favor of attack dice.

- The X-Wing provides a ROBUST set of upgrade options via the astromech slot. Especially now that the E-Wing expansion is dropping even more droids on us (but even before then!). Not to mention the X-Wing now has three SKUs worth of pilots/upgrades/etc (core set, X-Wing expansion, Rebel Transport expansion) vs the TIE Advanced only having one.

So it's definitely true that the X-Wing and TIE Advanced *should* be very comparable...the actual details of the implementation and current retail reality of the game system invalidate that.

(Now, all that said, as I've noted a few times - I don't think the problem is as massive as it might appear. The comparison to the X-Wing is particularly illuminating, as you can see how close its capabilities are. I think an Imperial version of Chardaan would be the best fit - eat up the missile slot, reduce cost by only 1, add system upgrade slot. I think that'd do what needs to be done for it!)

I notice that your "analysis" ( ) manages to completely forget the fact that the Advanced comes with Evade and more notably Barrel Roll , which is the most powerful and flexible action in the game. An action which will tend to give the TIE Advanced more and better shots than the X-wing will receive.

Too, you seem to forget that the Imperial player will tend to have the initiative. Another non-trivial advantage which costs nothing and will tend to give the TIE Advanced more and better shots...

To get an idea of just how potent and flexible these factors really are, try this: Set an X-wing down behind a TIE Advanced somewhere near the middle of range 2 (basically the strongest possible position to be in, in a dogfight). Play out say, five turns, keeping track of how many shots the X-wing would get. The answer is generally one or two, contingent upon good guesses from the X-wing pilot.

Now, try the opposite. A TIE Advanced at around range 2 of an X-wing's backside. Spoiler: In five turns of maneuvers, the TIE Advanced will get three or four shots along many decision trees. Often these shots are guaranteed by choosing a non-committal maneuver and then barrel rolling as necessary. If you feel like expanding the exercise, try similar setups from different ranges, different facings. Jousting situations, shallow and deep angles, etc. It's useful knowledge - very enlightening.

Now, clearly this isn't the end of the story - but it does sort've highlight some problems with your "analysis". Try not to leave out little things like the game , hey?

The condescending snark in this post is off the charts....good lord man, don't get so offensive

Isn't it difficult to say these things based on the fact the game is a dice rolling setup? The entire value of a ship is based on how well you can use it during a match. But since the usage may vary based on how well you roll your dice, along with the person you are having a match with. This could effectively make your ship less or more effective, correct?

No. Not on average. That's what my Lanchester's thread is all about. You can quantify the average damage outputs and durability based on the number of their dice and hull / shields. This gets you the raw "jousting" values, before you consider non quantifiable factors like the dial and upgrade slots.

The TIE Advanced's jousting value says that its efficiency is in the low 80%'s compared to a TIE Fighter. (Small base) ships below 90% are basically not very competitive, and the TIE Advanced is at the very extreme end of the range, when you look at the distribution of the ships.

Your method cannot account for the fact that rolling dice is something at random. Rolling dice by hand cannot be put down into a formula for simple understanding. The "Raw" data lacks the further information as you said that comes along with pilot abilities, actions, and upgrade cards for each ship. Thus you are missing a vast amount of information because the possibilities would be difficult to map out with a theory. The value of a ship comes down to more than just the "jousting" value, because not everyone is going to "Joust". The theory you came up with covers the idea that the ships are being pitted in such a manner that allows for that style of combat. Hence why you calling it a "Jousting" value instead of a "Combat" Value...am I right? It also only covers the non abilities pilots, because you can't quantify the abilities of named pilots, being they are like upgrades.

It is very interesting what you came up with, however it lacks a bit from what I can see. You can come up with a hypothesis about the "Value" of each ship, however given the many unquantifiable factors? I doubt you are able to determine the exact "Value" because it will always change because of the dice rolling, even more so once the other values of abilities, actions, upgrades, and overall skill of piloting from the player are input in, correct?

If I am wrong, please let me know.

Point for Point the Tie Advanced is equal to the X-wing, but instead of three Attack it gets three Agility.

And this is the problem in that the game, competitively, is time limited and therefore offense oriented.

So then the game is at fault for shifting what ships are available? Because the game focuses on such aspects versus the actual battles. This means that any ship that doesn't "Meet" the requirements for a limited time game are inadequate, correct? Perhaps if games were not so revolving on time then maybe other ships would get a better standing. However this doesn't change that certain ships fit better fly styles. The Tie Advanced does have a place in competitive play, just not many have used it correctly for that kind of play. Players adapt other ships to fit play-styles and competitive play, how come they can't do it with the Tie Advanced? Surely if they can do it with the X-wing, the Tie Advanced shouldn't be too hard.

Am I wrong?

P.S. People cannot play the Tie Advance the way they WANT too for competitive play. Because it wasn't designed to play that way, it doesn't fit the "Offense oriented strategy". Thus causing people to determine there is something wrong with the ship, instead of that people can't just learn HOW to fit the ship into the way they want to play. Thus spawning those who believe it needs to be changed, and it is overpriced.

I think that the advanced probably does see a lot more play in casual games where time (and playing field size) is far less an issue, if only because it's got Vader as pilot and people like to fly with the names they know.

And the advanced isn't used in competitive because there are other, easier options that are more consistent at winning. Why spend time trying to figure out how best to use the advanced when you could spend that time winning?

Your method cannot account for the fact that rolling dice is something at random. Rolling dice by hand cannot be put down into a formula for simple understanding.

This is a fairly common misconception, but it is a misconception. There are whole branches of mathematics that deal with random variables; the truly random parts of X-wing aren't actually very complicated, and are much easier to model than the heuristics players use when making decisions.

Point for Point the Tie Advanced is equal to the X-wing, but instead of three Attack it gets three Agility.

And this is the problem in that the game, competitively, is time limited and therefore offense oriented.

So then the game is at fault for shifting what ships are available? Because the game focuses on such aspects versus the actual battles. This means that any ship that doesn't "Meet" the requirements for a limited time game are inadequate, correct? Perhaps if games were not so revolving on time then maybe other ships would get a better standing. However this doesn't change that certain ships fit better fly styles. The Tie Advanced does have a place in competitive play, just not many have used it correctly for that kind of play. Players adapt other ships to fit play-styles and competitive play, how come they can't do it with the Tie Advanced? Surely if they can do it with the X-wing, the Tie Advanced shouldn't be too hard.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are. The Advanced has been out for a really long time, and it's been played quite a bit by quite a lot of people--and those people have, generally, concluded that the Advanced doesn't typically earn back the points you invest in it. It's not a question of adapting; it's quite simply difficult to overcome the handicap the ship's weak offense imposes on a player who brings it.

And, not incidentally, the Advanced doesn't actually get better in untimed games. It does improve in one-on-one situations (because it has both target lock and barrel roll, which is a relatively unusual combination), but in any game where dealing damage is important, the TIE Advanced is at a disadvantage.

Your method cannot account for the fact that rolling dice is something at random. Rolling dice by hand cannot be put down into a formula for simple understanding.

This is a fairly common misconception, but it is a misconception. There are whole branches of mathematics that deal with random variables; the truly random parts of X-wing aren't actually very complicated, and are much easier to model than the heuristics players use when making decisions.

Point for Point the Tie Advanced is equal to the X-wing, but instead of three Attack it gets three Agility.

And this is the problem in that the game, competitively, is time limited and therefore offense oriented.

So then the game is at fault for shifting what ships are available? Because the game focuses on such aspects versus the actual battles. This means that any ship that doesn't "Meet" the requirements for a limited time game are inadequate, correct? Perhaps if games were not so revolving on time then maybe other ships would get a better standing. However this doesn't change that certain ships fit better fly styles. The Tie Advanced does have a place in competitive play, just not many have used it correctly for that kind of play. Players adapt other ships to fit play-styles and competitive play, how come they can't do it with the Tie Advanced? Surely if they can do it with the X-wing, the Tie Advanced shouldn't be too hard.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are. The Advanced has been out for a really long time, and it's been played quite a bit by quite a lot of people--and those people have, generally, concluded that the Advanced doesn't typically earn back the points you invest in it. It's not a question of adapting; it's quite simply difficult to overcome the handicap the ship's weak offense imposes on a player who brings it.

And, not incidentally, the Advanced doesn't actually get better in untimed games. It does improve in one-on-one situations (because it has both target lock and barrel roll, which is a relatively unusual combination), but in any game where dealing damage is important, the TIE Advanced is at a disadvantage.

Explain to me how you can come up with a formula to account for the random rolling of dice. Adding in variables for re-rolls because of abilities, target locks, upgrade cards. On top of using focus tokens to change results, special card effects that further change dice results. If you could come up with a formula in order to determine the random variables? You could come up with numbers, however you CANNOT be right constantly. The fact is when it comes down to the math it will always be right/constant. The practical rolling of dice however is not the same as a mathematical formula.

The usage of the Tie Advanced is directly tied to the way a person pilot its. This means that by a person not flying it the "Proper" way or flying it "his or her way". Will effectively change whether it earns back it's points or not, simple as that. You will have X amount of people who say it did and X amount of people said it didn't. Not everyone who has ever used the Tie Advanced has been accounted for in speaking up about it. Thus the jury is still out except for those who believe in the idea that it doesn't get it's points back. You are also still left to the dice rolling, because good/bad dice rolling. Those results will also effect how well the ship earns it's points back.

The Tie Advanced and Tie Fighter share the same offense handicap, yet no one complains about the Tie Fighter. Maybe because of how much cheaper it is, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who say the same thing about any 2 attack dice fighter. They are at a vast disadvantage compared to all the others, why is the Tie Advanced so special compared to the everything else?

Answer me this. What does the Tie Advanced do now for a fleet? What roll does it play? Could another Imperial ship perform that roll, only better/cheaper.

That is the current problem with the Advanced that must/should be addressed by FFG.

The Tie Advanced holds greater defense and offense potential than other Ties. The roll of it should be a Ship-To-Ship, dogfighter. Taking advantage of the great range of movements, especially from the high PS pilots.

Note, the lower PS Tie Advanced are not nearly as useful as the named pilots. This is because the lack of a EPS makes it difficult to maximize the full potential of the fighter. By using Vader, one is able to equip him with a Engine Upgrade and say Expose. His extra action, in turn with the boost and barrel roll action in conjunction. Allow for Vader to get into striking positions out of harms way of the enemies. Then in turn gain the target lock and focus actions needed to improve overall damage. Finally using the Expose action upgrade to improve attacks. Of course none of this could work, just because of bad dice rolling. Seeing as alot of the results are dependent on it.

I think that the advanced probably does see a lot more play in casual games where time (and playing field size) is far less an issue, if only because it's got Vader as pilot and people like to fly with the names they know.

And the advanced isn't used in competitive because there are other, easier options that are more consistent at winning. Why spend time trying to figure out how best to use the advanced when you could spend that time winning?

I agree with you, I don't think it people having a lack of role for the Advanced. Players would just rather work with things they know that work. Rather than trying to change and learn something new, that might cause them to lose.

Your method cannot account for the fact that rolling dice is something at random. Rolling dice by hand cannot be put down into a formula for simple understanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_density_function