Vader with advanced sensors and engine upgrade is just sick.....

Personally, I think a system slot is a nice idea, but doesn't really 'fix' the problem. Also, sacrificing the missile slot is a mistake imo, but I'm not sure how to give the advanced better mileage out of it....unique, advanced only missiles?

Vader with advanced sensors and engine upgrade is just sick.....

Personally, I think a system slot is a nice idea, but doesn't really 'fix' the problem. Also, sacrificing the missile slot is a mistake imo, but I'm not sure how to give the advanced better mileage out of it....unique, advanced only missiles?

A built-in FCS solves this elegantly by buffing Cluster Missiles quite a bit. Only Jonus rerolled Clusters would be better.

Opportunist brings some new - heh - opportunities for cluster missile abuse.

Opportunist brings some new - heh - opportunities for cluster missile abuse.

Yes, but it only works for one attack, not both.

Opportunist brings some new - heh - opportunities for cluster missile abuse.

Yes, but it only works for one attack, not both.

As is true of the hypothetical FCS under discussion.

There's also Captain Yorr, who can soak the Opportunist stress. It's all a bit janky, though. You shouldn't really need to have an EPT slot and various other toys on the table to make a missile worth it's own point cost.

The built-in FCS is an interesting idea, but I would prefer to see a fix with greater flexibility from a squadbuilding standpoint.

Honestly, other than adding a System slot, I'm not sure how FFG could "fix" the Advanced outright. New pilots, with better abilities seems like the logical route at this point.

Vader with advanced sensors and engine upgrade is just sick.....

Vader would not really benefit from Advanced sensors since he would not be able to use his second action the same turn he use AS. So, it's still useful to do an action before a red maneuver or ramming an opponent, but it doesn't synergise well with his pilot ability.

Honestly, other than adding a System slot, I'm not sure how FFG could "fix" the Advanced outright. New pilots, with better abilities seems like the logical route at this point.

While it would help to add new pilots, it would not solve the problem of the generic version. A Tempest or Storm squadron would still be a suboptimal craft. What they did for the A-Wing solve both, now the Green Squadron is a very good choice as it offers a lot of possibilty, you won't have to take a named pilot for the A-Wing to be viable. I hope and expect FFG to do the same for the Advanced, but handle it differently.

Honestly, other than adding a System slot, I'm not sure how FFG could "fix" the Advanced outright. New pilots, with better abilities seems like the logical route at this point.

While it would help to add new pilots, it would not solve the problem of the generic version. A Tempest or Storm squadron would still be a suboptimal craft. What they did for the A-Wing solve both, now the Green Squadron is a very good choice as it offers a lot of possibilty, you won't have to take a named pilot for the A-Wing to be viable. I hope and expect FFG to do the same for the Advanced, but handle it differently.

And I guess that is the part that is stumping many a forum goer. What can be done (other than a point(s) deduction) for the two nameless pilots? I do like the idea of a Title card that gives the Advanced a free FCS or a missile card that replaces the missile with another laser for a 3rd attack die.

Replacing the Missile slot with a 3rd attack die makes it very close to the TIE Defender, I would be afraid of too much overlapping capabilities. It also obviously completely changes the nature of the ship going from 2 dice to 3 dice.

It could still be a cool idea, you would have to figure what its worth though. Rough estimate using the Lanchester's math would be an absolute minimum of 23 points at PS2 for 3/3/3/2. That would put you at 100% jousting efficiency, so you really should be looking at least 24 points, making the upgrade/modification cost 3 points minimum.

Obviously this could render the 30 point PS1 Defender obsolete, but we already know that the ship is paying a huge price for its white K-turn.

I'm still not super keen on going to 3 dice on the TIE Advanced without the Avenger sculpt, but that's just my personal opinion.

Vader with advanced sensors and engine upgrade is just sick.....

Vader would not really benefit from Advanced sensors since he would not be able to use his second action the same turn he use AS. So, it's still useful to do an action before a red maneuver or ramming an opponent, but it doesn't synergise well with his pilot ability.

Yes, actually, he can.

Vader with advanced sensors and engine upgrade is just sick.....

Vader would not really benefit from Advanced sensors since he would not be able to use his second action the same turn he use AS. So, it's still useful to do an action before a red maneuver or ramming an opponent, but it doesn't synergise well with his pilot ability.

Yes, actually, he can.

No, he can't:

Vader with advanced sensors and engine upgrade is just sick.....

Vader would not really benefit from Advanced sensors since he would not be able to use his second action the same turn he use AS. So, it's still useful to do an action before a red maneuver or ramming an opponent, but it doesn't synergise well with his pilot ability.

Yes, actually, he can.

No, he can't:

Correct.

Vader would better choose another system upgrade.

And I guess that is the part that is stumping many a forum goer. What can be done (other than a point(s) deduction) for the two nameless pilots? I do like the idea of a Title card that gives the Advanced a free FCS or a missile card that replaces the missile with another laser for a 3rd attack die.

Well, it's a points reduction *and* a system upgrade slot.

It's the "slot" part that makes it valuable - one of the major advantages of the X-Wing is its incredible flexibility it gets from the astromech upgrade. That lets you really do a LOT of different things with your build, that can justify some of the cost of otherwise-arguably-overpriced X-Wings (Luke comes to mind - he's a fair value without R2-D2, but WITH R2-D2, he's at a *completely* different level).

Plus, with a system upgrade added, it would make sense to add a new upgrade card to the pack. And I'd love to see the 'tractor beam' from the TIE Fighter PC games get ported over to XWM. (It would probably be the inverse of the Sensor Jammer: "When attacking, you may change 1 of the defenders's [evade] results to a [focus] result. The defender cannot reroll the die with the changed result.")

TIE Advanced is more comparable to the A-Wing, but with an extra hull (3 points) and barrel roll instead of boost. The pilot skills don't line up: A-Wings are 1 and 3, Advanced 2 and 4. But in each case, every 2 steps up in pilot skill costs 2 points. So we can say every pilot skill increase costs 1 point for these ships.

Take a PS1 A-Wing (17), add a hull (3) and a PS (1) to get a PS2 TIE Advanced (21).

Take a PS3 A-Wing (19), add a hull (3) and a PS (1) to get a PS4 TIE Advanced (23).

Seems about right to me. It's not entirely apples to apples (the dials aren't the same), but I think it's the best comparison we have. Better than comparing Advanced to X-Wing anyway.

Now Rebel Aces throws a small wrench into this with Chardaan Retrofit and A-Wing Test Pilot cards. Other posters have speculated a Battle of Yavin expansion that would give the TIE Advanced Advanced Sensors or some other similar advantage. That seems fair to me and keeps the TIE Advanced viable.

TIE Advanced is more comparable to the A-Wing, but with an extra hull (3 points) and barrel roll instead of boost. The pilot skills don't line up: A-Wings are 1 and 3, Advanced 2 and 4. But in each case, every 2-steps up in pilot skill step up cost 2 points. So we can say every pilot skill increase costs 1 point for these ships.

Take a PS1 A-Wing (17), add a hull (3) and a PS (1) to get a PS2 TIE Advanced (21).

Take a PS3 A-Wing (19), add a hull (3) and a PS (1) to get a PS4 TIE Advanced (23).

Seems about right to me. It's not entirely apples to apples (the dials aren't the same), but I think it's the best comparison we have. Better than comparing Advanced to X-Wing anyway.

Now Rebel Aces throws a small wrench into this with Chardaan Retrofit and A-Wing Test Pilot cards. Other posters have speculated a Battle of Yavin expansion that would give the TIE Advanced Advanced Sensors or some other similar advantage. That seems fair to me and keeps the TIE Advanced viable.

This outlines how bad the Advanced needs a "refit" that drops points AT LEAST 2. But what does it give up? I'd rather see a unique 0pt title or 6 (x1-x7) that adds options instead of just a point reduction at the loss of something else.

This outlines how bad the Advanced needs a "refit" that drops points AT LEAST 2. But what does it give up? I'd rather see a unique 0pt title or 6 (x1-x7) that adds options instead of just a point reduction at the loss of something else.

What it gives up does not really matter. Any extra card has to occupy one slot. That holds true even for titles and modifications. Any upgrade to fix the Advanced needs to reduce points. A 0 point card which adds an upgrade slot won't fix the fundamental problem.

One option is a generic card at -2 or -3 points. It may or may not add an upgrade slot. That card may be a title, modification or missile: That is of secondary importance.

You could invent 6 unique cards (x2-x7) which add different stuff as well as reduce points.

Instead of reducing points the card may add an ability (not upgrade icon) which is worth 2 or 3 points minimum.

TIE Advanced is more comparable to the A-Wing, but with an extra hull (3 points) and barrel roll instead of boost. The pilot skills don't line up: A-Wings are 1 and 3, Advanced 2 and 4. But in each case, every 2-steps up in pilot skill step up cost 2 points. So we can say every pilot skill increase costs 1 point for these ships.

Take a PS1 A-Wing (17), add a hull (3) and a PS (1) to get a PS2 TIE Advanced (21).

Take a PS3 A-Wing (19), add a hull (3) and a PS (1) to get a PS4 TIE Advanced (23).

Seems about right to me. It's not entirely apples to apples (the dials aren't the same), but I think it's the best comparison we have. Better than comparing Advanced to X-Wing anyway.

Now Rebel Aces throws a small wrench into this with Chardaan Retrofit and A-Wing Test Pilot cards. Other posters have speculated a Battle of Yavin expansion that would give the TIE Advanced Advanced Sensors or some other similar advantage. That seems fair to me and keeps the TIE Advanced viable.

So, if the Advanced is comparable to the A-wing, then it is the dial that is the real issue! The Advanced dial is no where near as good as the A-wings, and the Advanced is not given anything to make up for this disadvantage. So I think you hit the nail on the head here. If the A-wing just got a point reduction, then the Advanced needs not only a point reduction, but something else (for free) to make up for its dial.

So, if the Advanced is comparable to the A-wing, then it is the dial that is the real issue! The Advanced dial is no where near as good as the A-wings, and the Advanced is not given anything to make up for this disadvantage. So I think you hit the nail on the head here. If the A-wing just got a point reduction, then the Advanced needs not only a point reduction, but something else (for free) to make up for its dial.

Quite possibly, but I think the game designers--even if they see an imbalance, and even if they they think it should be corrected--will be very cautious to change the game mechanics much. It's more fun to give cards wide applicability, and easier play with very few exceptions to the rule. The Chardaan Retrofit surprised me, but I understand why it was created.

Maybe it's best to accept the TIE Advanced will have a very limited role. Wookiepedia states of the Advanced, "While it never made it into production, many of its best design features were later incorporated into the TIE/sa bomber and TIE/IN interceptor."

So, if the Advanced is comparable to the A-wing, then it is the dial that is the real issue! The Advanced dial is no where near as good as the A-wings, and the Advanced is not given anything to make up for this disadvantage. So I think you hit the nail on the head here. If the A-wing just got a point reduction, then the Advanced needs not only a point reduction, but something else (for free) to make up for its dial.

Quite possibly, but I think the game designers--even if they see an imbalance, and even if they they think it should be corrected--will be very cautious to change the game mechanics much. It's more fun to give cards wide applicability, and easier play with very few exceptions to the rule. The Chardaan Retrofit surprised me, but I understand why it was created.

I agree, and honestly that's why I'm not that excited about the Rebel Aces. The cards are very limited and only add to the A-wing or B-wing. Besides the title card for the Interceptor, the upgrades in the Aces pack could be used on almost anything! The hull modification is a cheaper was to add durability to any ship and Opportunist is a fun EPT for lower PS ships!

The Royal Guard Title does a lot for the Interceptors. I hope to see something like this for the Advanced. Honestly, I think it was a mistake, by FFG, to make Chardaan Refit A-wing only. I think it would have been a fair card to place on any standard size ship with a missile slot.

Honestly, I think it was a mistake, by FFG, to make Chardaan Refit A-wing only. I think it would have been a fair card to place on any standard size ship with a missile slot.

It would have been nice for the TIE Advanced. But a Bomber for 12 points? Or a Z-95 for 10? Probably not.

Honestly, I think it was a mistake, by FFG, to make Chardaan Refit A-wing only. I think it would have been a fair card to place on any standard size ship with a missile slot.

It would have been nice for the TIE Advanced. But a Bomber for 12 points? Or a Z-95 for 10? Probably not.

I think it's a fair give and take. If the missile slot adds to a ship's point value, and it isn't being used... Or, put another qualifier on the card. The base vale of a ship cannot be reduced bellow 14 points.

Honestly, I think it was a mistake, by FFG, to make Chardaan Refit A-wing only. I think it would have been a fair card to place on any standard size ship with a missile slot.

It would have been nice for the TIE Advanced. But a Bomber for 12 points? Or a Z-95 for 10? Probably not.

I think it's a fair give and take. If the missile slot adds to a ship's point value, and it isn't being used... Or, put another qualifier on the card. The base vale of a ship cannot be reduced bellow 14 points.

That doesn't fix the whole problem, though--e.g., let's please not make Han or Chewie any cheaper.

But moreover, I think FFG used to be a lot more conservative (Waves 1-2) about adding missile and torpedo upgrade slots than they are now (Waves 3+), probably because they were afraid of a huge alpha strike. Missiles haven't shaped up to be effective (or, at least, not consistently effective) when run that way, so that conservative pricing goes away.

And additionally, I think the Refit's cost is about -0.5 points for taking away the missile slot, and about -1.5 for FFG's overestimate of the effectiveness of ships with 2 Attack.

Honestly, I think it was a mistake, by FFG, to make Chardaan Refit A-wing only. I think it would have been a fair card to place on any standard size ship with a missile slot.

It would have been nice for the TIE Advanced. But a Bomber for 12 points? Or a Z-95 for 10? Probably not.

I think it's a fair give and take. If the missile slot adds to a ship's point value, and it isn't being used... Or, put another qualifier on the card. The base vale of a ship cannot be reduced bellow 14 points.

That doesn't fix the whole problem, though--e.g., let's please not make Han or Chewie any cheaper.

One of my original stipulations was standard size ships only. I agree, the YT doesn't need any help. lol

And I guess that is the part that is stumping many a forum goer. What can be done (other than a point(s) deduction) for the two nameless pilots? I do like the idea of a Title card that gives the Advanced a free FCS or a missile card that replaces the missile with another laser for a 3rd attack die.

I trust FFG will find a way to make it work, all we can do is speculate and daydream about fix X or Y.

For my part, I do believe that the Advanced could be well costed with a system upgrade and if, and that's the big if, defense got a general boost. I do believe that the comparasion to the X-Wing could be a good one if defense was worth as much as attack. But it's not the case, and that is what is plaguing the empire in general and make it so that the big tournament lists is the swarm (high body count to counter the unreliability of the defense dice combine with low hit point) and the big ships (low defense but high hit points). You can run other list, but it's starting to be at your won risk and peril; fielding a 30+pts unit that can be vaporize by only one good shot is a scary thought, combine with the fact that every crit will do nasty thing because you have no shield to absorb it and yeah, you'll think more than twice and will be testing your luck if you do. Sure, you can take an evade action to try to mitigate it, but if you do, you're lacking a punch in attack and it only works once per turn. Meanwhile, rebels have more and more ways to take several actions per turn or pass tokens away like free candies to attack with 3 dices+F+TL. Combine that with more and more skill/ability that helps the inclusion of critical hits (marksmanship, Ibtisam, Ethan) and it only get worse for the defense relying units.

That's what I think is at the base of the problems of defensive units like the A-Wing, Interceptors and Tie Advanced. Defense is unreliable. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's suppose to be the flavor of the Empire in general: Fast, nimble ships that works solo VS hard hitting, high hit points rebels that rely on teammates to hit even harder or survive. And that's fine, I don't want this dynamic to change, on the contrary, I want it encourage. To each sides their own flavor and like Luke said in a New Hope: They're coming in too fast! They are suppose to be hard to hit, but once you do, they blow up. Solve this problem, and you solve the Interceptor problem by making him more reliable and less dependant on PtL to survive, solve this problem, and you make the Tie Advanced a real tank. Sure, it doesn't pack a punch, but it's sure is hard to kill and maneuvrable if you combine it with an advanced sensors. I would use this ship.

So how do you solve this problem? How can you make defense more reliable BUT, make sure that the swarms doesn't benefit from it? My take would be a title or modification only usuable by Tie Fighters, Interceptors, Bombers and Advanced from a certain PS. Defensive blank rerolls or free evade token would be my proposition. Usuable only while unstressed, so suddenly PtL is not a no-brainer on every ship and we can experiment with new skills, all those stress inducing weapons keep their strenght, and doing a red maneuver is still a risky buisness. If the pilot is not stress, he can naturally focus on his evasives maneuvers, if he's stress, he can't concentrate enough.

That's where I would personaly look to correct the ships. The Empire thing is being fast, maneuvrable and hard to hit. Solve this problem by making this doctrine viable in a game that currently benefit the attack much more than defense.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree with all your hatred and slowly come to the dark side. Yes... let it consume you and then, you'll agree with me!