How far do you let players go with spending destiny points to alter the outcome of your game?

I see it as a flash back to one of Starwars pulp influences like 'Flash Gordon' and 'Radar Men from the Moon'. The heroes are in peril and a last change in fortune allows them to escape.

Here is a cliff hanger theater example.

http://youtu.be/eCHI-TaI4zM?t=12m19s

Relating it to Starwars, I see scenes like from New Hope were the heroes are trapped in the detention area and Leia shots a hold in the wall, or from Jedi when Luke looks like he will be eaten by the Rancor until a door with jagged teeth shows up and he throws a rock at the control panel.

Most commonly, my players use them to 'magically have things' that they needed, but forgot to buy. (I.e. One of my players is bleeding out. Another flips a point and goes, "I just remembered I hid that last stimpack in my boot.") Not the most glorious or creative, but it does end up saving the day same as Leia's creative vent destruction.

I envision their usage the way you describe. Leia's player is stuck in a hall with no escape. Flips a Destiny Point, "I just noticed a vent we could dive through." And makes their way to safety, as well as pulling the story in a new, creative direction.

Recently, I've developed a small house rule that allows my players to use Dark Side Destiny Points, with the caveat that they suffer a severe and unexpected consequence to its usage. So, in the above: Leia's player is stuck in a hall with no escape. Flips a Dark Destiny Point, "I just noticed a vent we could dive through." And they arrive in a trash compactor that's about to pop them like grapes. Enjoy.

Honestly, the cardinal rule I have for their usage in my group, is that it has to be a creative, and narrative attempt to make something happen. They're not Fate Points, they're not just a mechanic. If it sounds cool, I usually let it pass (Within reason; Last night a player tried to flip all 6, and say he won the lottery.)

I kind of like the idea of using them to trigger events like this. You can already do this with advantages and triumphs, but you might not always have a chance to do so (maybe there is not roll to generate them, or maybe you are short). Go narratives.

Recently, I've developed a small house rule that allows my players to use Dark Side Destiny Points, with the caveat that they suffer a severe and unexpected consequence to its usage. So, in the above: Leia's player is stuck in a hall with no escape. Flips a Dark Destiny Point, "I just noticed a vent we could dive through." And they arrive in a trash compactor that's about to pop them like grapes. Enjoy.

This sounds really cool.

Recently, I've developed a small house rule that allows my players to use Dark Side Destiny Points, with the caveat that they suffer a severe and unexpected consequence to its usage. So, in the above: Leia's player is stuck in a hall with no escape. Flips a Dark Destiny Point, "I just noticed a vent we could dive through." And they arrive in a trash compactor that's about to pop them like grapes. Enjoy.

This sounds really cool.

Its very fun. And its great at making my players sweat when they rolled all Dark the other session, bringing up the question, "Is it worth it? What will happen to us..."

Our Big Game Hunter wanted to use Bring It Down, and only has Dark points to use. Fitting result? The giant creature fell on her when her attack knocked it out, forcing the party to try and cut her out as a result.

This sounds interesting, and could make for a lot of narrative fun, I just wonder if the players feel the need to use dark ones because you're not flipping them frequently enough to upgrade difficulties. For a while when we first started playing my players flipped every time I did, and sometimes when I didn't, so they never had a pool to work with. But they've eased off that somewhat to the point the pool ebbs and flows fluidly.

This sounds interesting, and could make for a lot of narrative fun, I just wonder if the players feel the need to use dark ones because you're not flipping them frequently enough to upgrade difficulties. For a while when we first started playing my players flipped every time I did, and sometimes when I didn't, so they never had a pool to work with. But they've eased off that somewhat to the point the pool ebbs and flows fluidly.

Actually, this rule came about because we realised that the Dark points weren't seeing much use at our table. As a GM, if I wanted something to be harder, it was hard because it was part of the plot for it to be hard, and I never bothered to flip a point to make that happen. It felt arbitrary to suddenly make something harder because there was a token on the table, and none of the players felt it a naturally flowing event when it happened.

As a group, we opted to remove them from the GM's responsibility. If I want something to be harder, its harder because something happened, and it fits the flow of the story, and it made everyone happier. I upgrade when it fits, which puts the players on edge (I.e. "****, why is this check particularly hard? What went wrong?"). So, then came the question: "What do we do with the Dark points then?"

Then I came up with the house rule, and its thusfar been a lot more fun.

I realise, not every GM will run their table that way, and for some the Destiny Points make a good way to up the ante for players. I just didn't feel I needed an excuse to do so, and sought to re-purpose them.

Actually, this rule came about because we realised that the Dark points weren't seeing much use at our table. As a GM, if I wanted something to be harder, it was hard because it was part of the plot for it to be hard, and I never bothered to flip a point to make that happen. It felt arbitrary to suddenly make something harder because there was a token on the table, and none of the players felt it a naturally flowing event when it happened.

I think that's a misunderstanding of the purpose of the GM flipping the DP. It's not to make the task harder per se, but to make the consequences more dangerous. The difficulty is set by the number of purples, which should be fairly standard, eg: picking the same type of lock in two different places should have an identical difficulty. But the environment might be darker in location B (setback dice), and the lock at location B might be trapped (upgrade), and the plot might dictate some other danger whether or not the task fails (upgrade and/or DP flip).

Note, I'm trying not to say "you're doing it wrong", I kind of like your concept and if it works for your table, great! It's just that you might reconsider how the DP were designed to be used.

Actually, this rule came about because we realised that the Dark points weren't seeing much use at our table. As a GM, if I wanted something to be harder, it was hard because it was part of the plot for it to be hard, and I never bothered to flip a point to make that happen. It felt arbitrary to suddenly make something harder because there was a token on the table, and none of the players felt it a naturally flowing event when it happened.

I think that's a misunderstanding of the purpose of the GM flipping the DP. It's not to make the task harder per se, but to make the consequences more dangerous. The difficulty is set by the number of purples, which should be fairly standard, eg: picking the same type of lock in two different places should have an identical difficulty. But the environment might be darker in location B (setback dice), and the lock at location B might be trapped (upgrade), and the plot might dictate some other danger whether or not the task fails (upgrade and/or DP flip).

Note, I'm trying not to say "you're doing it wrong", I kind of like your concept and if it works for your table, great! It's just that you might reconsider how the DP were designed to be used.

I understand. I know others use it with some success, and I get how they are supposed to be used. A sort of upping the ante, adding risk when there wouldn't be otherwise. But I just didn't like writing/playing that way. If a door has an alarm, it has an alarm. I don't need a point to decide that for me. Setback dice can account for all of the random elements players might run into, and I like a more abstract way of playing.

If there is a risk of something bad, I upgrade. Pure and simple. No point needed. To me, they are a resources for the players, to encourage them to think creatively, and suffer the weight of consequences. Consequences that exist, and are a result of their actions, regardless of me.

But, this is entirely tangential from the point of the thread, and sorry if my playstyle derailed it.

Recently, I've developed a small house rule that allows my players to use Dark Side Destiny Points, with the caveat that they suffer a severe and unexpected consequence to its usage. So, in the above: Leia's player is stuck in a hall with no escape. Flips a Dark Destiny Point, "I just noticed a vent we could dive through." And they arrive in a trash compactor that's about to pop them like grapes. Enjoy.

This sounds really cool.

I don't see a reason why this couldn't be a consequence of using a Light Side point. You altered the situation and got out of whatever you were in. Spending Light Side doesn't automatically need to produce a purely-good player-side consequence. It can provide a new option, which is only good or bad at the GM's whim and once explored.

Recently, I've developed a small house rule that allows my players to use Dark Side Destiny Points, with the caveat that they suffer a severe and unexpected consequence to its usage. So, in the above: Leia's player is stuck in a hall with no escape. Flips a Dark Destiny Point, "I just noticed a vent we could dive through." And they arrive in a trash compactor that's about to pop them like grapes. Enjoy.

This sounds really cool.

I don't see a reason why this couldn't be a consequence of using a Light Side point. You altered the situation and got out of whatever you were in. Spending Light Side doesn't automatically need to produce a purely-good player-side consequence. It can provide a new option, which is only good or bad at the GM's whim and once explored.

I imagine it is up to the DM which way the new direction goes one the point is spent and I do think dark side points are a DM resource. But I like the idea of PC's using dark side point knowing its going to be risky.

It could be a good narrative tool, when the PC's have the backs to the wall and all they can see is dark side points.

Our group tends to use them to upgrade our rolls more then anything. As a player I use it on important rolls, or to give me a chance on a roll I might not normally be able to make.

As a GM I use them to add a bit of danger or risk to what might otherwise be a mundane roll. For example, if a player is making a roll to do a routine repair on a ship, that isn't dangerous or doesn't warrant a red on it's own, flip a destiny point and put a red in the mix. Suddenly there's a risk of despair, and something going horribly wrong. It's not a huge risk obviously (1 in 12), but gives the roll a bit of danger. That despair might result in your engine cutting out at a critical time later when that relay you forgot to replace suddenly blows.

My favorite recent one wasn't a huge thing, but it was fun in the moment.

The PCs had acquired a lightsaber crystal and the Pilot wanted to hide it on his ship. I had him make a Skulduggery roll and then flipped a Destiny point to upgrade the difficulty.

Sure enough, he succeeded but rolled a Despair. Everybody went "Ahhhhh" and I smile and said "You hide it successfully. You feel VERY confident you have hidden it successfully."

Now they'll find out what the Despair meant sometime in the future.

I like the idea of players being out of light side points and having to potentially call on the dark side but I'm not sure how this would work in-game.

My favorite recent one wasn't a huge thing, but it was fun in the moment.

The PCs had acquired a lightsaber crystal and the Pilot wanted to hide it on his ship. I had him make a Skulduggery roll and then flipped a Destiny point to upgrade the difficulty.

Sure enough, he succeeded but rolled a Despair. Everybody went "Ahhhhh" and I smile and said "You hide it successfully. You feel VERY confident you have hidden it successfully."

Now they'll find out what the Despair meant sometime in the future.

"In fact, you hid it so well, that you yourself can't seem to remember where you put it. You have to dismantle the whole ship to retrieve it."