Hello, I wasn't quite sure what to title this thread so I went with the generalization of the question. I want to know if it is considered in good taste or in the rules (I haven't found it) to place asteroids with precisely measured distances. I know Paul just wrote a piece for this for FFG, but no where on his post or in anything else I can find does it say you would be able to take out multiple range rulers to measure out distance for specific asteroid placement, IE so the player would know that in turn 3 he would take a hard 2 turn and just barely squeeze by the asteroid. I understand the use for measurement in placing the asteroids at range 2 from the edge (I see this more as you need to stay inside the box) and 1 from each other if need be. It doesn't give a big advantage to the player but you could also use it as sight lines and distance markers. So what do you all make of this?

It's common for players, even in casual games, to use the range ruler for precision asteroid placement.

I've also seen this as very common. I typically don't measure any more than I have to - max a measurement at 2 from an edge, and 1 from any other rock - but I've seen people use the entirety of the range ruler for measuring placement.

I honestly don't know what the actual rules would be. FFG caught most of us off guard when they formally allowed pre-measured templates for setup, so it seems as if the rules are very, very lax during setup. I don't know if there would be anything different about asteroid placement or not.

It's common for players, even in casual games, to use the range ruler for precision asteroid placement.

So you normally have people taking 3 range rulers out to measure from their side of the board to one spot on the board to place an asteroid? I don't know that feels like, if you are allowing that, why not just allow checking ranges for firing at all times as well? This seems as, if you can do this, you can place the asteroids at intervals that would allow range checking with out the need of actual measurement (I realize you can do this in your head with out it). I just look at this as if it goes against what most of the other parts of the rules specifically point out as a no no.

I'm not saying its bad either, just I will have to look out for this more often if this is indeed the norm, because this can backfire and your enemy can just watch how you set up and expect what you are planning instead of just eyeballing it.

I don't think that's normal, Hujoe, no. Not saying it's illegal, but it definitely is unusual, and smacks of overkill.

When I got my recent set of templates made, I got three range rulers - the normal one, and then a range 1 and a range 2 ruler (great investment, btw).

In addition to checking more easily if things are at those ranges, both also are great for setup; take the range 1 ruler, put it flush with the board edge, and you can just slide your ship base anywhere along the length that doesn't overlap either end. If it fits between two asteroids, they are a legal distance apart.

And when I place rocks, I will very often take the range 2, come in from the nearest board edge, and make sure the asteroid is two away from it - or use it to just slide the rock slightly until it is.

Anyway all of that takes about two seconds but allows you to be absolutely certain "this one is 2 away from the edge, and also at least 1 away from all other rocks." I have NOT ever seen anyone pull out three range rulers and go to town.

From what the rules say, though, it seems legal. I think it's dangerous to draw a parallel between rock placement and range to target - those are two VERY different situations. You have to check range on the rocks, once, during setup, to make sure they're all legally placed. That's a far cry from just checking range or fire arc at any time, which is expressly forbidden.

The situation you're describing, though, seems fairly far-fetched to me. It's not like they ever know where on the board you're going to end up, or by which asteroid, and they only control where half of them go to begin with, so the odds of you ever landing exactly so far from this rock, which means you're precisely at range whatever, are pretty remote.

I'd tend to agree that it seems somewhat.... odd to be using multiple rulers at the same time. A quick check here and there to make sure things are right. But to be placing a bunch at once, seems suspect to me.

But if you're not playing by tournament rules, wait for the set-up to be finished then pick which side of the play area you are starting on and rotate the board accordingly (page 20 core rules)

I'd tend to agree that it seems somewhat.... odd to be using multiple rulers at the same time. A quick check here and there to make sure things are right. But to be placing a bunch at once, seems suspect to me.

But if you're not playing by tournament rules, wait for the set-up to be finished then pick which side of the play area you are starting on and rotate the board accordingly (page 20 core rules)

I don't think that's normal, Hujoe, no. Not saying it's illegal, but it definitely is unusual, and smacks of overkill.

When I got my recent set of templates made, I got three range rulers - the normal one, and then a range 1 and a range 2 ruler (great investment, btw).

In addition to checking more easily if things are at those ranges, both also are great for setup; take the range 1 ruler, put it flush with the board edge, and you can just slide your ship base anywhere along the length that doesn't overlap either end. If it fits between two asteroids, they are a legal distance apart.

And when I place rocks, I will very often take the range 2, come in from the nearest board edge, and make sure the asteroid is two away from it - or use it to just slide the rock slightly until it is.

Anyway all of that takes about two seconds but allows you to be absolutely certain "this one is 2 away from the edge, and also at least 1 away from all other rocks." I have NOT ever seen anyone pull out three range rulers and go to town.

From what the rules say, though, it seems legal. I think it's dangerous to draw a parallel between rock placement and range to target - those are two VERY different situations. You have to check range on the rocks, once, during setup, to make sure they're all legally placed. That's a far cry from just checking range or fire arc at any time, which is expressly forbidden.

The situation you're describing, though, seems fairly far-fetched to me. It's not like they ever know where on the board you're going to end up, or by which asteroid, and they only control where half of them go to begin with, so the odds of you ever landing exactly so far from this rock, which means you're precisely at range whatever, are pretty remote.

Yeah I took that a bit far, but just kinda pointing out the similarities. And I believe asteroids should be measured for placement for legal use (inside the range 2 box and 1 from each other). He went a bit far with it by placing out asteroids so that he knew that where he set up, he would have to just do a hard turn on turn 3 to get into the position he wanted. Again, I wont fall for the same trap twice and I know now how to counter it due to it being very easy to read. I just wanted to get the public opinion on the matter is all.

The biggest issue I had though is he said it was legal because he saw and read that Paul did it, which I have yet to find proof of. I have seen the game where the asteroids were placed similar to how he had them in out game but I have yet to see evidence that Paul took the time to measure that out.

Well, his statement is perhaps a bit of a gray area. In the final, you could definitely see Paul measuring the asteroids (as was Dallas). However, I saw it as more of a making sure they are legally placed kind of thing. To be honest though, spending a few minutes/hours at home fiddling with the asteroids will probably enable you to figure that out anyway. (i.e. if I place the big rock at the edge of the near left corner, I know that on turn X I need to make my hard turn inward). Likewise, if your opponent went first, you can probably guage where the rock is by watching as it is placed, then using your own ruler to make sure you legally place the next rock (i.e. at least range 1 away).

I definitely measure where I want the asteroid to be. It's 5 range increments from my edge of the table to where I want it for my World Champs list. I'm used to seeing people measure precisely where they want their asteroids, and am pretty sure it's legal.

Some of the reasons you don't want people measuring ranges and stuff all the time during the game is the amount of time it takes, and the chances of bumping models slightly. You don't really have either issue during setup.

Paul

Fair enough, I will have to start paying attention to my opponents asteroid placement and take that into consideration. I still feel that if you did this for all 3 asteroids you place, you could easily use them as sight markers for distances. Well good to know any how.