Bombers just don't scare me. Well, the exception being a PTL Rhymer w/ APT. Since you need TL to shoot anyways, I know who you're shooting at, and if that guy dies, then I know you're not really doing damage elsewhere that round, unless you took the gamble and took a TL elsewhere during activation.

4 dice unmodified shots at typically around 25 points a ship are quite a bit less threatening than 4 dice HLC's on a B for 29 points. I typically try to close the range to R2 on the first engagement so neither of us get bonus dice, and it's likely that you don't have a lock against my primary threat. Even if you have Jonus/Howl with SL, you only have one lock on my primary threat ship. Unless of course I'm running 4 PS2 ships, which then it's my own fault.

So lets review - I know who you're shooting at, and it's not my primary person. If I have Biggs, I know you're rolling your 2 attack dice unmodified against him while he just dreams of the days where he would race through Beggar's Canyon. Meanwhile, my Wedge/Ibby/HLC are blowing holes through your hull. One bomber is guaranteed dead before he gets his second shot off. Another bomber is unlikely to have a second shot with anything except APT / Cluster missiles since I'd close the distance to R1.

Ordnance in general has issues with it beyond the pricing. All of these issues exist without changing the pricing of ordnance. I must admit though, whomever suggested an aura that increases PS by 1... that sounds like a great imp buff. I say put it on an x1. I could see a 25pt PS6 x1 pilot rounding out a good squad with Jonus and 2 Gamma's. You could put a missile on each and be at 99 points... and put MFS on one of them for 100, shooting and moving at 7/7/5/5. There could potentially be restrictions such as "while within R3 of this ship, increase PS by 1."

Or maybe an EPT that costs 1 or something along the lines of "Rushed! Your squad point total is considered to be 5 points higher than your total." This would allow you to guarantee that you have initiative except against mirror matches. In which case you'd still want to have 100 points to make sure that you're at "105" for your imitative bid. It could also be used on interceptor lists that want to move last to ensure they have optimal positioning. Herm.... Interesting....

**** it Khyros, why do you always have to be right? Leave us some happy delusions!

On a related note, I just want to double check on this rule thing. The no re-rolling more than once means that if I use a target lock to re-roll on a homing missile I can't also use Jonus on those same dice, correct? So there's incentive to use these except on the man himself...

Hell, I think that Bombers are good without any missiles or torpedoes at all!

Admittedly I'm just getting started with X-Wing, but am I seeing some good synergy between Jonus and Jendon? Shuttle passes on it's target locks, Bomber gives the Shuttle's HLC a boost...

It's expensive as hell of course, and I imagine it's been tried many times before...

I've never had much luck with Bombers. Given the high cost for ordinances, must use a TL to fire them, and usually getting only 1-2 unmodified hits, I think Bombers got the short end of the stick. But hey, at least they're the only TIE that can move 1 straight!

6 hull is nice, unless you get those pesky crits...

So, Khyros IS an experienced player.

And he points out why the bombers suck in competitive play. The Bomber isn't a good dog fighter. And if there is Biggs in the opponents squad ... well. I've even played against a high-level Tie swarm - Vader and his named Black Squaddies - no chance.

I got 2 missiles off at all; and finally i could not destroy a single ship.

A poor craftsman blames his tools...

I am heading to a store championship this weekend and thought I would give the Bomber some love. This thread has pointed out lots of good and bad things about them but ultimately brought me to this list.

Scimitar, Advanced Proton Torpedo, Seismic Charge 24

Scimitar, Advanced Proton Torpedo, Seismic Charge 24

Howlrunner, Swarm Tactics 20
Mauler Mithil, Squad Leader 19

Obsidian 13
100pts

One of the Scimitars take a focus and Mauler lets it get a TL on a ship that moved in to range with Squad Leader. Howl lets it fire at PS8. I was considering dropping Advanced protons on one of them for a range 2-3 missile for the opening exchange and then move in to range 1 for the APT.

When all the ordnance is gone I will try to fly it like a swarm. Thoughts?

A poor craftsman blames his tools...

A smart craftsman improves them

A poor craftsman blames his tools...

A smart craftsman improves them

You've missed the point.

I participated in a tournament this weekend and ran -

Advanced Vader Death Squad

• (Tie Advanced) Darth Vader (29) + (Pilot Trait) Swarm Tactics (2)
• (Lambda Shuttle) Captain Yorr (24) + (Antenna) Sensor Jammer (4)
• (Tie Bomber) Major Rhymer (26) + (Pilot Trait) Push the Limit (3) + 2x Advanced Proton Torpedo (6)(6)

- This squad is very useful, I ran three matches, 2 of the matches I destroyed every opposing ship without losing one

using Yorr to absorb PTL from my tie bomber, target locking/focusing and unloading an advanced proton torpedo doing 5 damage every time I shot it, I destroyed wedge twice with it, one shot each time, destroyed Chewbacca with two torpedo's, one after the other. Using this squad Yorr at PS 4 moves first, losing any stress and positioning himself to block the enemy's attacks, next comes Vader who Grants my Bomber PS 9, targeting whatever threats are most deadly to my ships destroying them first in an alpha strike with focused fire if my APT dosnt work, immediately gives me an advantage, next round same thing again. Only my first game with past 3 rounds, next 2 I ended in 3 rounds both were experienced players. People on the forums say its useless cause they would target my bomber first but to get to him you have to get close enough as I keep him in the back beside the Shuttle and behind Vader. I target anyone targeting him, Lambda absorbs hits with Sensor Jammer, tempting people to use their focus on their attack on the shuttle and picks up any Stress from pushing the limit or K turning after the alpha strike to get behind my opponent. APT rock. Bomber Rocks. Am thinking of running a Squad with Captain Jendon, Gamma Squad and Captain Jonus with plenty of ordnance... Just need to buy more Bombers

An a petty man cries "this ship sucks" because it isn't burning up the top tables, even with a few championship wins.

There are valid points against the bombers. But I'm not seeing where they suck. They have drawbacks, sure. There are bad match ups, yes. But this would be a very, very poor game if there were no drawbacks to the various ships.

Wow, of all the ships to get hate, I didn't think people would dislike the TIE Bomber after playing it.

Jonus makes Bombers soooooo good. I usually equip 2 or three bombers with Proton Torps and Cluster Missiles. Then Fly them with Jonus+squad leader, he usually doesn't even have any ordnance himself, sometimes a bomb. My games go like this

Turn 1 - approach no shooting

Turn 2 - Torpedoes away - lots of damage with 2 re-rolls each.

Turn 3 (Things can get a little messy here, sometimes I lose a TIE Bomber by this point) Cluster Missiles away - 3 dice with 2 re-rolls TWICE. I'm not usually a huge fan of the cluster missiles, but next to Jonus they are awesome.

By this point in the game I usually haven't lost a TIE Bomber yet, they just have so many hits. If I have lost one it usually isn't more than one.

Now the Dog fighting commences this is where the TIE Bomber surprise most of my opponents (And me the first couple of times I flew them). They are definitely not the best dog fighters in the game, but two agility + 6 hull makes them incredibly good at surviving. They have a pretty good dial (The best of all the wave 3 ships). They have the ability to combine Focus and Target Lock makes them hit pretty hard for 2 attack dice. All in all they are surprisingly good dog fighters.

They have been called one-trick-ponies, and they are definitely a niche or specialist craft. But that being said, they don't suck outside of that niche by any means. I not going to take a bunch of them with out ordnance upgrades, that is there thing after all, but if they get off their alpha strike and then their beta strike, they have more than enough dog fighting potential to mop up what ever is left.

A poor craftsman blames his tools...

A smart craftsman improves them

You've missed the point.

No sir. Its all about improving tools

A good craftsman can use any tool to make a masterpiece with any tool provided...

A good craftsman can use any tool to make a masterpiece with any tool provided...

Very true, you only need to look at some of the recent winners of the Turner Prize...

Ok.. I have to admit ignorance here.. what is this turner prize??

A poor craftsman blames his tools...

A smart craftsman improves them

You've missed the point.

When all you've got is a hammer, you learn how it's a combination between a chisel, a mallet, a nail-pull, a plane, a spanner, a multi-length measuring rod, et c et c et c.

Frankly, the only reason a 6-bomber swarm hasn't taken off is because a 5-bomber set with Clusters or Seismics offers a 1-time use bit of added damage, and most think that makes up for a missing ship.

Scimitar + Cluster Missile x3

Jonus

Howlrunner

100 points.

Even after you deliver your payload, all the ships can still shoot much better with howlrunner on the board.

Ok.. I have to admit ignorance here.. what is this turner prize??

A modern art award. If you don't know....cherish your ignorance.

Ultimately, the weakness of bombers to higher pilot skill is correct, as argued. You can't get a target lock until turn two without outside support.

Colonel Jendon in ST-321 helps a hell of a lot - he's essentially an 8-point investment over the cost of a basic Omicron Group pilot (to which you can strap fire control, gunners, or whatever porcelain space manatee shenanigans you prefer) because even though he's only PS6 himself, you can target lock anyone, even if they're way on the other side of the board. The only issue is Taking both Jendon and Jonus is spending about half your squad on 'support elements', which doesn't leave you room for that many actual bombers.

Bombs have their moments. I concur that against squints and A-wings, they're less scary. More to the point, saying "PS 6" is irrelevant - bombs are kicked out before you move, not after, so you know all the possible bomb points before you pick up a manouvre dial, even if the bomber has a higher PS than you. If you get caught in a bomb radius, you have only yourself to blame...

This is why I think bombs get misinterpreted a bit. I've heard again and again how a lucky proton bomb can one-shot an A-wing but that A-wing is never in a million years going to get caught by it unless the rebel screws up. You cannot chase a speed 5, boost-capable A-wing down in a pair of flying binoculars.

Seismic charges aren't bad for that sort of thing because you can afford twice as many - two or three bombers in loose formation kicking out bombs simultaneously can saturate a large area of the board with damage. Alternatively, as TheRealStarkiller said, they're not bad for persuading light fighters to stay off your arse.

Where proton bombs come into their own, however, is heavy duty work. I saw a (fairly common) sight at the store championship - a three-ship b-wing pack trundling along with all the guns in the world, prepared to laugh at incoming fire. The problem for them, is that all their defensive power is in their shields, not their hull. Three bombers dashed in - and took a kicking, losing 5 out of six hull on their leader. The next turn, however, three proton bombs kicked out in a tight pyramid about speed 2 in front of the B-wings and...well...you can probably figure out the rest.

Proton bombs are nasty little things when used on stuff which isn't that manouvreable and lacks a massive hull (it wouldn't cut it against Y-wings, for example). Rebels have a lot of 'someone within range one of me can ignore the rules' abilities on Xs, HWKs and Bs, and cheap bombers with protons can make a real mess of such formations.

Proton Bombs would be fine for 4 points each - 5 points is too expensive.

I don't need Proton Bombs to kill B-Wings either. Jonus + Bombers with Proton Torps are a good way to blast the B-Wings.

If you face Daggers, they better had initiative.

And I am not sold on Jendon supporting Bombers. The Bombers must be able to do their duty on their own ... maybe with a light Tie Fighter escord

Another unique PS6 or PS5 + EPT for 21-22 points would help amd another PS7 + EPT - for 23 to 24 points.

If only the +1 range also affected bombs. Then bombing runs would be something to start fearing.

If only the +1 range also affected bombs. Then bombing runs would be something to start fearing.

But there is good chance that they would also get hit by their own bombs, or hit friendly units. The Empire is not that desperate yet...

How about an ability or modification that would allow to drop bombs AFTER the movement?

How about an ability or modification that would allow to drop bombs AFTER the movement?

Again, your bomber would get hit by the range 1 radius of your own bomb.

Maybe being able to drop the bomb with a bank 1 instead of just a straight?