... the Tie Bomber. Lovely craft. Lethal if carring torps'missiles'bombs - if they are able to get rid of them - and expensive if doing so. One Trick Ponys they are called. Meaty swarmers .

And seldom you find them in winning squads.

I think the main problem of the bombers are:

Missiles/Tops are not reliable.

Missiles/Tops are expensive.

Bombs/Mines are situational and somewhat difficult to use effectively.

Scimitar and Gamma Pilots lack the ability to alpha against higher skilled pilots.

And I think the last problem is the major one.

Whats worse then if your missiles are not that effective as you have thougt?

If you were not even able to fire them! And this is exactly what happenes if you take a Tie Bomber squad to a turney.

To get a chance to win with a Jonus + Bombers squad you need to get your missiles off in the opening salvo. If you fail this - you could just give up and take your bombers off-board.

Major Rhymer might have a cool ability if used with ATP + PTL ... but the he is so ... i mean soooooooo expensive ... for a single APT shot. Even if you manage to hit with the APT - ok you are able to one-shot a X-wing - with luck - thereafter its more a joke. Rhymer + PTL isn't like 'vader light' - the Bomber is more like a flying brick. Better give this equipment to Boba.

At least the Firespray is decent.

So what a bomber treatment package would need:

Gammas should get access to EPT.

OR: A modification that works like Deadeye - maybe taking the bomb slot.

New unique pilots with emphasis to increase the reliability of munitions, like:

"Your target can't use focus tokens to defend"

- increased chances to damage your target, especially with Homing Missiles

"When attacking, your critical hits ignore shields"

- increased chances to damage your target, especially with Proton Torpedos

A possibility to get a discount on multiple secondary weapons on a single bomber:

Like an ammo magazine: one-time reload used munitions; cost:2 points;

Heavy bomber refit: + 1 Additional Bomb slot, taking a missile slot + a torp slot.

They really do need an extra bomb slot, they are BOMBERS after all.

The new cheaper flachete/ion ordinance will help it, as will the fail safe.

No doubt regarding the failsafe, the problem for me is that it is an extra point, on top of the cost of any missile(s), Bomb(s) and Torp(s).

A Deadeye effect would be more preferable imho.

I think they are drastically underestimated as dogfighters as well. 16 point for a PS 2 pilot with 6 hull??? It's insane!! Compare it to a Tie fighter and you get +3 hull (and -1 agility) for only 4 points more! I have found that even after they use their ordinance - the Tie Bomber can still inflict alot of damage - simply because it stays around for sooo long unless they concentrate fire on it - which can often backfire, cause, while it's a ship with lots of HP, it can't do a ton of damage - but if you ignore it, it can really tear you up, and then you have a healthy end-game ship that can take a ton of hits, while still getting TL* + F shots off on you *because you won't always have a shot

Well - i tired them as 'Dogfighters' - and they suck. Basically you are down to the 5 k-turn. You know it - your opponent know it. So no surprises here - unless you want to float through space with no targets in your arcs.

And if your way is blocked or you are near the border of the game mat - you are ******.

So - don't tell me the bombers are good dogfighters. Unless your bombers outnumber the enemy 2 to 1 you are ******.

And this is what you have to do with your torps and missiles in the alpha strike:

If you got 4 Bombers and your opponent got 4 X-Wings, you need to destroy 2 of them in the alpha strike, then you have a chance in the following dogfight.

If you start with 6 empty Scimitars against 4 X-Wings, you will have a very hard time and you need all the luck you can gat to win - or a VERY beginner as your opponent.

I run a 3x bomber squad.

Jonus+Assault+Cluster

Rhymmer+APT+assault+PTL+seismic

Gamma+Assault+Clusters

Swarms: No probs!

Rebels: Blow the doors of Falcons. Nail X-wings in one go! B-wings+clusters=Shafted B!

Only problem is I flew like a newb in the last tournie!

Once the missiles are away they make excellent dogfighters. You have to love that 5K turn!

Nicely durable with 6 hull and 2 evade

In terms of an opening salvo,are you familiar with the Rule of 11? I know that's not a guarantee, especially with low PS, but it helped me, along with a combination of bombs and missiles. I've also used Vader with SL to assist, but that is expensive, especially if you give him something as well.

I know the rule of 11.

It isn't that you cant win a game with bombers. It's more that you don't have a chance vs. higher level squads.

The list that won my local Store Championships was Jonus/Gamma/Gamma/Dark Curse.

I also note, just in passing, that you proposed those two pilot abilities for TIE Fighters yesterday.

And your point now is?

And your point now is?

That not everyone finds TIE Bombers to be crippled, and that your pilot abilities seem like solutions in search of a problem to solve.

Jonus and bombers placed very highly at my store championships also, I can see them being a little better with MF on the horizon

Bombers are fine, their meant to be one trick ponies. Much like Interceptors High risk High reward mentality. Its how you wanna play the game. If you want to favour the dice gods so be it and good luck. If you want a reliable list that doesn't rely on lucky shots then play the list that doesn't rely on the alpha strike with missiles. I personally love the idea of Torp wielding x-wings but in a tournament i know it isnt as viable. I think FFG designed them with that purpose in mind.

Bombers aren't terrible at dogfighting, but TIE Fighters are more cost efficient, as they should be. So the dogfighting ability is more of a mop-up effort.

The biggest drawback with them that I see, is missiles etc cost a lot of points for what you get. Given that Bombers are the only craft that NEED to equip ordnance, it puts them in an odd position.

I have been considering a house rule:

Versatile Munitions (0)

Modification. TIE Bomber only.

All missiles, torpedoes, and bombs cost 1 less to equip on this craft.

And Rhymer needs a slight point cost reduction.

The jury is still out if -1 ordnance cost is too OP, but thematically I really like the idea. You can't just reduce their base ship cost to balance them, or else you just risk making them OP compared to TIE Fighters, and they'll see use without ordnance. But if you reduce the ordnance cost, it makes them the best ordnance carriers in the game. Which, in my opinion, they should be because they are BOMBERS!

I don't see lack of EPT of the PS4 pilots as a big deal. Jonus ability is exceptional, and Rhymer just needs a cost reduction.

With -1 cost, I think this would make for an excellent baseline bomber squad

Jonus + PtL + Concussion

Gamma + Proton Torpedo + Cluster Missiles x3

Might be OP. Would need testing.

There are 2 point Flechette Torps on the way - your solution would mean they are only 1 point...

As well as Seismics ...

I like the idea ... but that might be OP ... not so OP like the Rebel Aces Pilots, but still a bit OP ...

Bombers are fine, their meant to be one trick ponies. Much like Interceptors High risk High reward mentality. Its how you wanna play the game. If you want to favour the dice gods so be it and good luck. If you want a reliable list that doesn't rely on lucky shots then play the list that doesn't rely on the alpha strike with missiles. I personally love the idea of Torp wielding x-wings but in a tournament i know it isnt as viable. I think FFG designed them with that purpose in mind.

I doubt that, and given the upcomming increase of cheaper torpedoes and modifications that improve the reliability of missiles and torpedoes, FFG agrees that bombers and other missile ships aren't exactly working as intended.

FFG agrees that bombers and other missile ships aren't exactly working as intended.

really? ... how do you know?

Maybe. I'm not sure though. You are basically rolling 3 unmodified dice. With Jonus rerolls its slightly better but still not quite as good as 3 dice with focus. You're paying for putting stress on the target. If you use them first, you lose the alpha strike.

Many of the new upgrades will benefit the Bomber, but this is a good ship the way it is now. It can take a beating and can be outfitted with many different types of weapons. Are they as cost effective as the turret weapons a Y-wing can carry? Sometimes not. This is a risk reward platform. This is why I love Concussion Missiles. Your blanks turn into hits. Protons are nice because a focused shot does serious damage as well. The key is building a squad that will help your bomber get a second action (or free TL ect...) and/or re-rolls to make the most of its payload.

Yeah ... Flechettes are not THAT weapon of choice for bombers ... maybe they could help the bombers in the dogfight - if jonus was killed

FFG agrees that bombers and other missile ships aren't exactly working as intended.

really? ... how do you know?

Because they're releasing cheaper ordnance and cards that make said ordnance more reliable. Both of which aim to fix issues most people have with bombers.

I also have issues with the consistent usefulness of Bombers. They, unlike many ships, are more prone to bad matchups. Just losing out on PS or winning initiative can make a BIG difference. The reliance on getting the TL holds them back from greatness. Bomber squads, and all secondary weapon squads, are also hurt much worse by action denial strategies. Boost a shuttle into the Bomber's path and see how well they'll be able to TL. At least if you block an XXBB squad, they have 3 dice guns. Idk, just my 2 cents. Just from personal experience, winning conistently with a 4 Bomber squad is much harder than most other squads.

Don't get me started on the effects Biggs has on Bomber squads.

It'd be nice if Imperials had some reliable action economy ships for passing out TL. I'm pretty upset that Jendon is only Range 1 and the HWK gets 1-3.

Or an Aura ship that boosts PS by 1, making the Gammas PS 5. I kind of like this idea!

On another note, I like Howl boosted Bomber swarms MOSTLY for the matchup against Tie Fighter swarms. That agility and hull is really nice for taking on Tie Fighters. It really feels like a soft counter to the Tie Fighter swarm.

you will see the Proton Rockets will come with a high price ... 5 or 6 points

Flechette and Ion Missiles are just toys for the rebels