Someone over on the Team Covenant boards caught this one, and it seems right.

Fire the Flechette Torpedo, miss your target, stress them without losing the torpedo.

That's just brilliant.

Someone over on the Team Covenant boards caught this one, and it seems right.

Fire the Flechette Torpedo, miss your target, stress them without losing the torpedo.

That's just brilliant.

Deadeye might actually be useful here, as you could spend your TL to re-roll your hits and thus avoid doing any damage with them (a good thing for a poor man's R3-A2).

Hehe.

This is similar creating a parking lot with shuttles, Yorr taking the stress of a stationary OGP and going a green into the OGP.

Any game system will incur the exploitation of obscure game elements that slip through testing.

Cheapest ship for this combo: The TIE Bomber, at 19 points total
Next cheapest ship for this combo: The Y-Wing, which is nastier for the Ion Cannon Turret synergy. 21 points total, or 26 with the Turret

Followed by:
X (24)
B (25)

E (30)
Slave-1 (36)

Notably, Kath Scarlet + Merc Co-Pilot + this combo = TOTAL *****. Here, have two stress tokens, and call me in the morning.

Let's be really evil: stress torps AND R3-A2. Use the target lock to re-roll your hits and keep the torps turn after turn, adding a second stress token every turn with R3-A2.

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw those two upgrades. Why do you think it slipped though testing and wasn't intentional? They are coming out around the same time roughly.

This could swing the meta so that ships with few green maneuvers will be less desirable. PTL becomes more at risk. Things are really going to shake up.

Someone over on the Team Covenant boards caught this one, and it seems right.

Fire the Flechette Torpedo, miss your target, stress them without losing the torpedo.

That's just brilliant.

This would work best on Blount with Assault Missiles firing at range three targets.

OR

Firesprays and YT-1300's where you can combine it with gunner so that you can still make a primary weapon attack at a different, preferably closer target.

This would work best on Blount with Assault Missiles firing at range three targets.

Doesn't work at all. Blount automatically hits no matter what, so the "did you hit?" condition for the failsafe will always be satisfied and the missile will always be discarded. The failsafe is literally a blank card (other than using up a point) on him.

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw those two upgrades. Why do you think it slipped though testing and wasn't intentional? They are coming out around the same time roughly.

Because the idea of a missile that stresses its target even though it didn't fire is idiotic. Doesn't mean it's not intentional, of course, and I don't think I ever claimed it wasn't intentional. But it's still a very dumb interaction.

And before someone goes down the "Pilot is stressed about because of the lock even if it doesn't fire", explain why they're super-stressed about a Flechette Torpedo but not a Concussion or Homing Missile? Or an Advanced Proton Torpedo?

This would work best on Blount with Assault Missiles firing at range three targets.

Doesn't work at all. Blount automatically hits no matter what, so the "did you hit?" condition for the failsafe will always be satisfied and the missile will always be discarded. The failsafe is literally a blank card (other than using up a point) on him.

Sorry, yes forgot.

No surprise there. But is constantly stressing and not dealing any damage worth the cost?

No surprise there. But is constantly stressing and not dealing any damage worth the cost?

It is if you have gunner or something similar so that you still get an attack. Hence why it is quite viable on a Firespray or YT-1300.

I don't know why we're surprised. Just further proof that FFG play testing is not everything you guys think it is.

Before people start yelling again: this doesn't make the game bad at all. I just think we can expect to see more dumb card interactions.

I don't know why we're surprised. Just further proof that FFG play testing is not everything you guys think it is.

Before people start yelling again: this doesn't make the game bad at all. I just think we can expect to see more dumb card interactions.

The only thing that is truly wrong is that munitions fail safe give you multiple attempts, not just a reroll or something similar. Flechette missiles causing stress without doing damage makes sense since they are the space faring version of flak which is stressful whether it is directly hitting you or not.

I don't know why we're surprised. Just further proof that FFG play testing is not everything you guys think it is.

Before people start yelling again: this doesn't make the game bad at all. I just think we can expect to see more dumb card interactions.

The only thing that is truly wrong is that munitions fail safe give you multiple attempts, not just a reroll or something similar. Flechette missiles causing stress without doing damage makes sense since they are the space faring version of flak which is stressful whether it is directly hitting you or not.

I disagree. The multiple attempts makes perfect sense.

Presumably, the targeting computer is now smart enough to tell when a missile won't hit it's target and keeps the missile from firing (and being wasted). That's fine.

The ridiculous thing is that the Flechette Missile can dish out stress without actually being fired. Ridiculous.

Not rocket science guys, I just read the munitions failsafe as having another shot in the tubes. The missile missed but the pilot took stress since it detonated nearby. Hell the card even shows what looks like two under-wing launchers... I don't see it as a broken interaction since it means you do no damage, and have to not hit to keep doing it. You go ahead and spend 5 turns doing that while the other team, which IS doing damage is killing you.

Blount automatically hits no matter what

Yes, that's why Ion Pulse Missile on him is kind of fishy. Or Forcyish?

I don't know why we're surprised. Just further proof that FFG play testing is not everything you guys think it is.

Before people start yelling again: this doesn't make the game bad at all. I just think we can expect to see more dumb card interactions.

The only thing that is truly wrong is that munitions fail safe give you multiple attempts, not just a reroll or something similar. Flechette missiles causing stress without doing damage makes sense since they are the space faring version of flak which is stressful whether it is directly hitting you or not.

And that's precisely the problem with this interaction, Yes, the stress is caused by the flak... But if there's flak, is because the torpedo was fired and detonated.

However, munitions failsafe operates under the assumption that if your computer calculates that your target won't be hit, the torpedo isn't fired in first place.

This wonky interaction no doubt will require a FAQ.

Right, am I getting this. People want to pay 4 more points(failsafe and a droid) to do no damage but get 2 stress tokens on a ship.

I dunno, I would invest those 4 points in something that does damage.

Failsafes seem nice on Jonus, giving him the 3 damage missiles and the other bombers the heavy hitting ordnance.

2 initial stress tokens on a ship is huge. It's snough to keep it stressed perpetually.

Take a X-wing, open fire with Flechette + R3. Double-stress your target. Next turn he is actionless and koiogranless, if he goes green, he removes one stress, but you fire again with R3 and re-establish his count to 2 stress. Keep firing and stressing at will against a defenseless ship. This combo doesn't even needs munitions failsafe, but it's handy to restart the combo against another target once you finish your first.

Do the same with an Y-wing with R3 + Flechette + Ion turret, and now you can even stress and ionize your target at the same time.

2 initial stress tokens on a ship is huge. It's snough to keep it stressed perpetually.

Take a X-wing, open fire with Flechette + R3. Double-stress your target. Next turn he is actionless and koiogranless, if he goes green, he removes one stress, but you fire again with R3 and re-establish his count to 2 stress. Keep firing and stressing at will against a defenseless ship. This combo doesn't even needs munitions failsafe, but it's handy to restart the combo against another target once you finish your first.

Do the same with an Y-wing with R3 + Flechette + Ion turret, and now you can even stress and ionize your target at the same time.

R3-A2 causes stress to the user, as well, and neither X-wings nor Y-wings have a lot of good maneuver choices while stressed. Worth considering the costs as well as the benefits, when you start building combos like this one.

And people will adapt to Flechette Torpedoes + Munitions Failsafe exactly the same way they adapted to Gunner: sometimes, it's better to take the damage in order to prevent the next attack.

R3-A2 causes stress to the user, as well, and neither X-wings nor Y-wings have a lot of good maneuver choices while stressed. Worth considering the costs as well as the benefits, when you start building combos like this one.

And people will adapt to Flechette Torpedoes + Munitions Failsafe exactly the same way they adapted to Gunner: sometimes, it's better to take the damage in order to prevent the next attack.

Then we have also to consider that rebels also have ships (particularly two X-wings) capable of shedding extra stress per turn if they need to.

And regarding Flechette + Failsafe... That's assuming they are any hits to absorb from the attack roll. Flechette (or R3 for that matter) can perfectly roll all blanks and still stress you. Besides, you cannot control your defense roll, other than modifying it. If your opponent rolls only one hit, the moment you roll 1 single evade, the attack will miss.

2 initial stress tokens on a ship is huge. It's snough to keep it stressed perpetually.

Do the same with an Y-wing with R3 + Flechette + Ion turret, and now you can even stress and ionize your target at the same time.

But why not just take a Ion weapon so much cheaper has a better effect and does 1 damage.

It just feels to gimicky, it is niche on action heavy characters but whats stress going to to so a proto type pilot or a simple interceptor. Just lose its action but still making a 90 decree turn. Seems like a lot just to take away an action. Or just fly white with any other ship.

But just a 2 point flechette torpedo seems great to stomp that red maneuver at a critical moment. Or take away the action from a target with a payload. But going up to 6 points just to hope to do it again and take away another round of action loss (were your opponent can play around). Nope not feeling it...yet.

R3-A2 causes stress to the user, as well, and neither X-wings nor Y-wings have a lot of good maneuver choices while stressed. Worth considering the costs as well as the benefits, when you start building combos like this one.

Then we have also to consider that rebels also have ships (particularly two X-wings) capable of shedding extra stress per turn if they need to.

Sure, but Porkins risks damage to do so, making Hobbie the more likely choice. And Hobbie + Flechette Torpedoes + R3-A2 + Munitions Failsafe costs 30 points, and that's his only trick. Granted it's a good trick, but is it so much better than Wedge? Or, for that matter, is it so much better than having Hobbie + PTL + R2-D6?

My point wasn't that R3-A2 isn't good, it was that activating the droid comes with a cost that, in this case, is directly commensurate with the benefit.

And regarding Flechette + Failsafe... That's assuming they are any hits to absorb from the attack roll. Flechette (or R3 for that matter) can perfectly roll all blanks and still stress you. Besides, you cannot control your defense roll, other than modifying it. If your opponent rolls only one hit, the moment you roll 1 single evade, the attack will miss.

Against a ship with 3 Agility, if neither side spends a token to modify dice, the Flechette Torpedoes have about a 53% chance to miss--meaning that it's more or less the flip of a coin whether you'll get to keep your Torpedoes. (On average, in this case, you'll get to shoot your torpedoes about twice.)

Against 4 Agility, again assuming no tokens, that chance climbs to 64% (and the average number of shots climbs most of the way to three). So your 3-point Stealth Device is definitely threatened by Flechette + Failsafe: either I hit you and strip the Stealth, or I miss and get to keep stressing you. But again, look at the cost: I spent 3 points in my build, plus the opportunity cost of multiple attacks not doing damage, for a trick that isn't very reliable unless you have a Stealth Device or are on the other side of an asteroid (and doesn't work very well at all against a ship with 1 Agility, which is currently half the Rebel metagame).

It's potentially interesting, but I don't think it's game-breaking.