It's really not rocket science. You simply check the conditions after each attack. Did it miss? Yes - keep the card. No - discard the card. If either attack hits the criteria is met and the missile is discarded.

You simply check the conditions after each attack.

Please cite the exact rule that allows you to check the conditions after multiple attacks instead of after just one. When doing so, please remember that "the attack" is singular, and can not refer to two separate attacks.

It says WHEN ATTACKING. All attacks, plural.

If the card applies to all attacks, it applies to both cluster missile attacks.

Ergo, if neither attack his, the condition for MSF is met, and the card is retained.
If either attack hits, the criteria for MSF is not met, and the card is discarded as normal once both attacks resolve.

It says WHEN ATTACKING. All attacks, plural.

This^

If the card applies to all attacks, it applies to both cluster missile attacks.

Except it very clearly does NOT because it says if the ATTACK misses you don't discard the missile card, and "the attack" is singular. It can test one and only one attack for "did it hit", there is no possible argument that the card as-written checks both of them.

You're reading the half of the card that suits you.

WHEN ATTACKING = any time you make an attack. You just happen to make two with Clusters, and so it's not a shock the card is worded as "the attack," singular, because each is resolved separately. It's also the only secondary to fire more than once that way, so arbitrarily pluralizing it would have made every OTHER missile or torpedo read wonky.

When attacking means exactly that - WHENEVER you are attacking.

Not only is there not "no possible argument" for it covering both attacks, there is no argument it DOESN'T, because "when attacking," by it's very definition covers any and all attacks. You could fire SIXTEEN missiles off in a round if able, and that blanket statement would encompass EACH attack. It's singular because it does not resolve them simultaneously, but one at a time.

LOUD NOISES!

In other news, I think this card will be quite a bit of fun on Tie bombers.

Now... I just gotta get some tie bombers...

Sigh. Read pages 4 and 5 of the FAQ. It is obvious that each cluster missile attack is a separate attack. There are literally 4 questions driving that point home. And page 6 has yet another 2 questions directly related to cluster missiles.

Several of the questions relate to Vader or Luke, both of which use the singular "an attack". Both cards carry the same effect for the 2nd attack of the cluster missile. There is no need for an FAQ on this. The precedent is clear.

Case closed.

When attacking means exactly that - WHENEVER you are attacking.

It does. However, the failsafe will only check one of your attacks, not both of them. Let's break it down in sequence:

1) Declare the missile attack. Failsafe puts a hold on discarding the card until you know the results of the (singular) attack. This is in effect whenever you are attacking.

2) Resolve the first attack. #1 is still in effect, and the missile is not discarded yet.

3) You are no longer attacking. The failsafe checks to see if you hit or not, then discards the missile card if you did.

3) Resolve the second attack. #1 is no longer in effect because you've already dealt with the trigger, and the "were you just told to discard a missile card" condition is not satisfied.

4) Do not discard the missile card, because its "discard to make this attack" cost has already been negated and the time to discard the card is far in the past.

=IF(OR(cluster1=hit,cluster2=hit),discard missile,keep missile)

Mr.Excel on YouTube would be so proud of this explanation.

So if you only hit with one "attack" do you get 1/2 the cluster missile card un-discarded? Is it a munitions fail-sorta-safe in that case?

Not so much. The meta-attack, which is two cluster missile attacks, if that gets a hit you discard the card. If not, keep it and try again.

The meta-attack, which is two cluster missile attacks, if that gets a hit you discard the card. If not, keep it and try again.

Please cite where this "meta-attack" thing exists in the rules as published by FFG.

*sigh*

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meta

meta- prefix

: more than : beyond : more comprehensive

This is fairly basic english. The "attack" with regards to Munitions Failsafe refers to the Secondary Weapon card as a whole, not just one portion of it. If there is ever a super-duper-awesomesauce-mega-uber cluster missile that performs 15 individual attacks, the munitions failsafe would kick in if all 15 missed.

It's pretty clear from your twisted logic that it's going to need a FAQ entry to make sure the issue is not arguable.

The "attack" with regards to Munitions Failsafe refers to the Secondary Weapon card as a whole, not just one portion of it

You're just inventing this "rule". In the actual rules as published by FFG the word "attack" refers to a single attack, never to a group of them. You roll defense dice against each attack separately, gunner re-rolls trigger off a single missed attack, not missing both of them, etc.

3) Resolve the second attack. #1 is no longer in effect because you've already dealt with the trigger, and the "were you just told to discard a missile card" condition is not satisfied.

A single effect can be triggered multiple times--for instance, Chewie's pilot ability is triggered every time you're dealt a face-up damage card, even if it happens multiple times in a single attack, let alone on two different attacks. Munitions Failure is triggered by every attack.

It also seems clear to me that Cluster Missiles must fall under the description of "...a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack"--or at least, if you want to argue that they don't, you should be arguing that for both attacks, not just the second one.

When attacking means exactly that - WHENEVER you are attacking.

It does. However, the failsafe will only check one of your attacks, not both of them. Let's break it down in sequence:

1) Declare the missile attack. Failsafe puts a hold on discarding the card until you know the results of the (singular) attack. This is in effect whenever you are attacking.

2) Resolve the first attack. #1 is still in effect, and the missile is not discarded yet.

3) You are no longer attacking. The failsafe checks to see if you hit or not, then discards the missile card if you did.

3) Resolve the second attack. #1 is no longer in effect because you've already dealt with the trigger, and the "were you just told to discard a missile card" condition is not satisfied.

4) Do not discard the missile card, because its "discard to make this attack" cost has already been negated and the time to discard the card is far in the past.

Ever notice it's the people who accuse you of inventing rules that ignore or invent them all the time?

There is absolutely no way MSF only checks ONE attack, any more than Gunner only checks ONE Cluster attack - spoiler alert, it doesn't. It can fire after either. Same exact idea, MSF can keep or discard your munition after either. If one hits, missile is discarded.

Same exact idea, MSF can keep or discard your munition after either. If one hits, missile is discarded.

If this wasn't true, MSF + Cluster would be one of the most broken combo's in the game. Because that would mean if either attack misses you get to keep the missile.

You could reasonably throw 18+ dice with it over 3 turns, just because one of the two attacks miss.

There's only two ways for this to work. Either MSF has it's conditions checked for both attacks, so if either one hits, you discard the missile. Or else both attacks have to hit or else MSF saves your missile. Clearly based on the various FAQ's if either sets of attacks hit, the ship is considered Hit by the rules.

To take it further, that means firing a cluster missile at a ship with a stealth device, you'd have to hit with both attacks to remove the stealth device. Likewise with Gunner/Luke you'd have to miss with both attacks to trigger them one time.

Unless he's really trying to make the argument that you get to pick which one of the two attacks from cluster missile counts for MSF...

He doesn't know what argument he's trying to make.

He's just the one thousand, four hundred and eighty-seventh person who found an awkward interaction with a badly worded card that they refuse to errata, which has at least one new awkward interaction with every new release, and who thinks it is clever to twist it into an obviously broken combo by ignoring the words on the cards which don't support his argument. Very novel.

"When attacking" means any and every time you are making an attack that meets the listed criteria (in this case When attacking with a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack," There is no way that both attacks - coming from the same card do not each meet this criteria.

It doesn't say "once per turn" when attacking, so there is no limit on the number of times MFS applies to a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it. If you had a card that let you fire two, three, fifteen missiles and torpedoes in a single turn, MFS would be checked on each and every single one of these. So there is no reasonable argument to be made that it doesn't somehow apply to each attack made by a cluster missile in a single turn, simply resolved one after the other as they always are .

There is no way that Gunner does NOT check after attack 1 and attack 2 for a miss to see if it triggers a primary weapon attack - that has been clearly ruled on. So there is no way that MFS does not check after attack 1 and attack 2 for a hit to see if the missile is discarded or not.

There is no way that Gunner checks after attack 1 and attack 2 for a miss to see if it triggers a primary weapon attack - that has been clearly ruled on.

Yes. Because once again we're back to the basic concept of what is a hit under the rules. A hit is a hit is a hit. Either the target is considered hit, or else it isn't. As I said, this applies to things like SD and Assault Missiles as well. Hit is a binary effect, either it is or it isn't, there is no gradations of being hit.

So if either sets of dice scores a hit, the target is considered hit. At which point MSF makes you discard the missile.

MSF works in a way just like Lt Blount does, only in reverse. MSF doesn't work well on him, because every time he fires his attack is considered to have Hit, so MSF never saves your warhead.

Blount + MFS + Homing missiles FTW!!!

Blount + MFS + Homing missiles FTW!!!

What would the benefit be? He loses the Missile no matter what. MFS says if the attack does not hit, do not discard, but Blount says he ALWAYS hits, even if he deals no damage. So, if you use them, they go away no matter what.

Blount + MFS + Homing missiles FTW!!!

What would the benefit be? He loses the Missile no matter what. MFS says if the attack does not hit, do not discard, but Blount says he ALWAYS hits, even if he deals no damage. So, if you use them, they go away no matter what.

You do know what a laughy face means, right...? That was a joke , because it is clearly a terrible combination of cards.

He loses the Missile no matter what.

CW was making a joke. Homing Missile is even more likely to hit, due to not being able to use evade tokens against it. So you have the missile most likely to hit, on a pilot that never misses, but an upgrade that lets you save your missile if you miss.

He loses the Missile no matter what.

CW was making a joke. Homing Missile is even more likely to hit, due to not being able to use evade tokens against it. So you have the missile most likely to hit, on a pilot that never misses, but an upgrade that lets you save your missile if you miss.

And actually I freely admit I included Homing Missiles as a bit of a failed joke - I mixed up the wording and was thinking that it failed to meet MFS's criteria for a card that gets discarded. I was thinking of the fact you don't have to discard your target lock to fire Homing Missiles. Although as Vanor was kind enough to point out, the fact that you can't spend evade tokens against them and the fact that you keep your target lock when firing them mean they are the most likely missile to hit and still, then, arguably the worst missile to pair with MFS, let alone on Blount.