So my players have a Wayfarer, because they're badasses. They just bought their first airspeeder, and also they want to buy a snubfighter or two for skirmishes (the Wayfarer ain't exactly the most maneuverable beast).

The Wayfarer lists an Encumbrance capacity of "850," and so I'm curious how much Encumbrance a vehicle would take up. I would just hand wave it and say they can fit two or so, but my players have taken advantage of such acts of kindness in the past, to disastrous result. I was thinking something simple along the lines of "silhouette x 100 = Encumbrance," because then the Wayfarer could hold two snubfighters comfortably. But then I realized that that would also mean that a Wayfarer could fit a Wayfarer inside of it...

What do you guys do for this? Anything? Is it even relevant?

Handwave it. Encumbrance is an abstraction and represents not just the volume of the item you are carrying but also the mass and how cumbersome it is to store. You need room to walk around and work on the starfighters plus you're also storing spare parts, fuel, hoses, extra fuzzy dice, ladders to climb into the cockpits, etc. There's a good deckplan on the wiki that shows two fighters in the main hold and based on the size of the Wayfarer and a Z-95 (for example), it certainly seems possible.

A good rule of thumb would be, "How much space do you want the players to have left after they store their two snubfighters and the airspeeder?" If the answer is "50 encumbrance" of free space then the vehicles take up 800. Done. 32 encumbrance? Do the math. On a different ship with different circumstances, the answer might be different. Maybe there's a support pillar that reduces the amount of room to store a starfighter comfortably. Maybe the players try to modify the ship to remove that pillar with some appropriate trade-offs in hull integrity.

Make sure to drop a juicy gig that requires them to haul 60 encumbrance of cargo. Force them to make some hard decisions and you'll get some creative thinking.

My players have a Wayfarer packed with two Headhunters, an airspeeder, a speeder truck, two speeder bikes, and an AT-PT. It takes Piloting checks simply to exit the thing, and weekly Mechanics checks to keep the vehicles from sustaining permanent system strain until they install the Retrofitted Hangar Bay attachment (core rulebook page 271). They have no room left for cargo (beyond their larder) unless they want to start converting crew quarters.

Still, maintaining a variety rundown equipment to be used on a variety of mission is what tabletop gaming on the Star Wars' Outer Rim is supposed to be like, right...? Have fun with it.

I've been tinkering with some rules for this. One idea was to use (System Strain + Hull Trauma) x Armor == Encumbrance to get an idea, which puts most ships between 24 (a TIE fighter) to 63 (a Y-Wing, and that's if my math serves me correctly). You could also approach it using Silhouette instead; in that regard, I'd look at something like (System Strain + Hull Trauma + Armor) x Silhouette.

Edit: If I had my book out I'd tell you the calculations for the ground vehicles; I was giving ships since I have those memorized with how many ships I've statted using the TIE and Y-Wing as guidelines.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, but a speeder bike has Armor 1, Hull 7, System 6 and Silhouette 2? If so, I'd guess that the encumbrance for your vehicle would be around 24.

It's not perfect, but it's a good guideline to get started from if you have players that love the concept of a number crunch and will use hand-waiving against you. In the end, though, common sense should rule out; you can't simply cram an X-Wing into a Ghtroc without really cutting out the entire interior, after all.

Edit: The same common sense is true for stuffing an AT-AT into a YT-1300. An AT-PT, with enough finaggling and the right cargo access, should be possible, though. . .

Also just a reminder. In EotE it's mentioned that many freighters have docking clamps that allow them to piggyback a fighter or two into hyperspace. So the Enc for "a fighter or two" is essentially 0 if carried externally. It also means that you only need the Retrofit Hanger Kit if you want the fighters to be carried internally but still be launchable in flight.

Remember that no matter how much it carry, it can only carry up to Sil 3 vehicles inside it, as the wayfarer is a sil 5 ship.

I just came up with this equation for the encumbrance of vehicles: Silhouette x Hull Points x 3

The math comes out about right I think. I like it.

A speeder bike/Swoop is 12

An Airspeeder is 24-30
An ATPT is 36

A Fighter is 54 (TIE) to 108 (Y-Wing) with the Z-95 at 81.
A Patrol Boat like the Firespray is 180 and a Light Freighter like the YT-1300 is 264.

This was discussed awhile back, and in that thread we thought a good rule of thumb was 5^Silh. so people (silh 1) were ~5 enc, speeders (silh 2) were ~25, fighters (silh 3) were ~125, freighters (silh 4) were ~625, etc. Just a thought.

This was discussed awhile back, and in that thread we thought a good rule of thumb was 5^Silh. so people (silh 1) were ~5 enc, speeders (silh 2) were ~25, fighters (silh 3) were ~125, freighters (silh 4) were ~625, etc. Just a thought.

That is not a bad way of calculating encumbrance for vehicles. And the value for a person is pretty close to the RAW (it can range from 6 to 11 (maybe 12). On page 192 of the CRB, it states:

"Living beings generally have encumbrance values of 5 plus their Brawn if carried. A typical human, like a soldier for the Rebel Alliance, has a Brawn of 2, and therefore a total encumbrance value of 7. A scholar from Garos IV, with a Brawn of 1, has an encumbrance value of 6. This may be modified by specific species' features, such as the fatty bulk of a Hutt or the hollow bones of an avian."

There is also an example on that page of a PC Wookie having to carry an incapacitated Rodian PC. The Rodian's encumbrance is 7 (5 + brawn(2)). This is also the rule used to calculate a character's encumbrance threshold.

That is not meant as a contradiction to the method that you mentioned, just as a reference. If anything it supports your calculation, as the most common encumbrance for a person is 6 or 7.

This was discussed awhile back, and in that thread we thought a good rule of thumb was 5^Silh. so people (silh 1) were ~5 enc, speeders (silh 2) were ~25, fighters (silh 3) were ~125, freighters (silh 4) were ~625, etc. Just a thought.

I kinda like that but if it were me, I'd add an additional amount to a fighter if it's intact or if the wings don't fold up for storage. A Wayfarer-class might be able to carry 6 Y-wings but only if their nacelles were detached and stacked cleanly and efficiently up against a bulkhead.

Perhaps double the encumbrance if they're in one piece and ready to fly. Add an additional 100 enc/per fighter if you want free space to actually fly out of the doors without first having to play a game of Sokoban . If your players don't like handwaving these sorts of things you've now got a simple house rule there for storing two Z-95s and an airspeeder and you still have over ~100 enc. free for cargo.

Maybe bigger fighters take slightly more space—a Y-wing is 140 enc. instead of 125 enc. Maybe 2x enc. for intact fighters is too much—try 1.5x instead or only add a static amount. Play with the numbers a bit until you find something that you and your players are comfortable with.

It seems like compared to the other estimates, my equation is low-balling it, so perhaps I aught have 4 as the multiplier instead of 3, and to take into account armor.

So Silhouette x (Hull Points+Armor) x 4 = Encumbrance

The new figures would be:
Speeder Bike: 16
Landspeeder: 32
Airspeeder: 32-48
AT-TP: 72
Starfighters: TIE: 96 Z-95: 144 X-Wing: 156 Y-Wing: 180
Firespray: 304
YT-1300: 400

I don't think this is accurate for anything above a silhouette 4. I like that this, unlike the exponential method, takes into account the hull points and armor, as things within the same silhouette size can be very different in practical size and weight. There's a big difference between a speeder bike and a cloud car, even though they're both sil 2. Remember that sil is really
only to be used for shooting at things.

I also like the idea that something, say a starfighter, takes up 1.5 x the space if it's ready to be launched, and probably 2x the space if they have any kind of facilities for it on board.

Thoughts?

With the YT-1300 having 400 Encumbrance that means you can fit two of them inside the cargo hold of a Wayfarer (enc. capacity 850)?

With the YT-1300 having 400 Encumbrance that means you can fit two of them inside the cargo hold of a Wayfarer (enc. capacity 850)?

But you are still limited by silhouette. I thought I remember reading that you cannot fit an object with a silhouette of 2 less than that of the freighter.

It's possible that I am wrong. I hope someone corrects me if I am.

It seems like compared to the other estimates, my equation is low-balling it, so perhaps I aught have 4 as the multiplier instead of 3, and to take into account armor.

So Silhouette x (Hull Points+Armor) x 4 = Encumbrance

The new figures would be:

Speeder Bike: 16

Landspeeder: 32

Airspeeder: 32-48

AT-TP: 72

Starfighters: TIE: 96 Z-95: 144 X-Wing: 156 Y-Wing: 180

Firespray: 304

YT-1300: 400

I don't think this is accurate for anything above a silhouette 4. I like that this, unlike the exponential method, takes into account the hull points and armor, as things within the same silhouette size can be very different in practical size and weight. There's a big difference between a speeder bike and a cloud car, even though they're both sil 2. Remember that sil is really

only to be used for shooting at things.

I also like the idea that something, say a starfighter, takes up 1.5 x the space if it's ready to be launched, and probably 2x the space if they have any kind of facilities for it on board.

Thoughts?

I think this is more accurate than the numbers I was running for the most part, but we all could be wrong.

With the YT-1300 having 400 Encumbrance that means you can fit two of them inside the cargo hold of a Wayfarer (enc. capacity 850)?

But you are still limited by silhouette. I thought I remember reading that you cannot fit an object with a silhouette of 2 less than that of the freighter.

It's possible that I am wrong. I hope someone corrects me if I am.

You've got it right. The first sentence under Base Modifiers of the Retrofitted Hangar Bay description (page 271) says:

"Allows vehicle to carry a number of smaller vehicles (with a maximum silhouette of 2 smaller than the carrier vehicle) in a converted auxiliary hanger."

It seems like compared to the other estimates, my equation is low-balling it, so perhaps I aught have 4 as the multiplier instead of 3, and to take into account armor.

So Silhouette x (Hull Points+Armor) x 4 = Encumbrance

The new figures would be:

Speeder Bike: 16

Landspeeder: 32

Airspeeder: 32-48

AT-TP: 72

Starfighters: TIE: 96 Z-95: 144 X-Wing: 156 Y-Wing: 180

Firespray: 304

YT-1300: 400

I don't think this is accurate for anything above a silhouette 4. I like that this, unlike the exponential method, takes into account the hull points and armor, as things within the same silhouette size can be very different in practical size and weight. There's a big difference between a speeder bike and a cloud car, even though they're both sil 2. Remember that sil is really

only to be used for shooting at things.

I also like the idea that something, say a starfighter, takes up 1.5 x the space if it's ready to be launched, and probably 2x the space if they have any kind of facilities for it on board.

Thoughts?

I think this is more accurate than the numbers I was running for the most part, but we all could be wrong.

I think the CRB takes more of a tee-ball approach (everybody wins!). From the same Base Modifiers section that I mentioned above, the last line states:

"(Common sense and GM's judgement apply when determining what vehicles can and cannot fit in the hanger bay)."

It is left up to the group (or the GM, depending on how strict he is) to determine these things. Whatever seems reasonable for what your players are attempting to do.

The exponential method was a rule of thumb, not exact numbers. A TIE should probably be less than a Y-wing, a swoop less than a T-16, etc. The 5^Silh is more a ballpark or order-of-magnitude, with adjustments for specifics using common sense and perhaps some background knowledge.

With the YT-1300 having 400 Encumbrance that means you can fit two of them inside the cargo hold of a Wayfarer (enc. capacity 850)?

But you are still limited by silhouette. I thought I remember reading that you cannot fit an object with a silhouette of 2 less than that of the freighter.

It's possible that I am wrong. I hope someone corrects me if I am.

Wouldn't that mean that people couldn't fit in Silhouette 2 vehicles?

Wouldn't that mean that people couldn't fit in Silhouette 2 vehicles?

Good point. Like everything in this system, the rules are open to interpretation, and there are exceptions everywhere.

Again, for at least the purpose of the Hanger attachment, the rule was intended for vehicles, which is why it mentions silhouettes and not encumbrance.

Wouldn't that mean that people couldn't fit in Silhouette 2 vehicles?

Good point. Like everything in this system, the rules are open to interpretation, and there are exceptions everywhere.

Again, for at least the purpose of the Hanger attachment, the rule was intended for vehicles, which is why it mentions silhouettes and not encumbrance.

The text does specifically mention vehicles, and I wouldn't include people in that definition. It is interesting that people are measured on the same silhouette scale as vehicles, but it doesn't seem to apply here.

Edit: Also, these rules are specific to a retrofitted hangar bay, which can only be installed on Silhouette 5+ ships.

On 3/26/2014 at 3:40 PM, Kirdan Kenobi said:

It seems like compared to the other estimates, my equation is low-balling it, so perhaps I aught have 4 as the multiplier instead of 3, and to take into account armor.

So Silhouette x (Hull Points+Armor) x 4 = Encumbrance

The new figures would be:
Speeder Bike: 16
Landspeeder: 32
Airspeeder: 32-48
AT-TP: 72
Starfighters: TIE: 96 Z-95: 144 X-Wing: 156 Y-Wing: 180
Firespray: 304
YT-1300: 400

I don't think this is accurate for anything above a silhouette 4. I like that this, unlike the exponential method, takes into account the hull points and armor, as things within the same silhouette size can be very different in practical size and weight. There's a big difference between a speeder bike and a cloud car, even though they're both sil 2. Remember that sil is really
only to be used for shooting at things.

I also like the idea that something, say a starfighter, takes up 1.5 x the space if it's ready to be launched, and probably 2x the space if they have any kind of facilities for it on board.

Thoughts?

Yea yea, Necro; but I'm trying to make a significant contribution.

I like this, but we definitely need an exponent in there or else it just doesn't grow fast enough. After all, at 10 we get the Death Star.

(Hull + Strain) x (2 ^ Silhouette) ?

Speed Bike(2/6) = 24

Landspeeder Car(2/9) = 36

Cloud Car(2/12) = 48

Personnel Carrier(3/12) = 96
Tie Fighter(3/14) = 112
Y-Wing(3/22) = 176
Jumpmaster(4/22) = 352
YT-1300(4/37) = 592
Wayfarer(5/52) = 1664 (would be only 720 with your values)
Star Galleon(6/103) = 6592 (would be only 2160)
Dreadnought(7/140) = 17,920 (would be only 2996)

Sil 6 should be able to carry 20 Sil worth of Sil4, or 5 of them. Star Galleon has 10k Capacity and easily fits that. Nebulon has 4k Capacity, and 592*5 = 2960, should still be fine. Most Sil6 ships have at least 3500 Enc.

A Bulkier ship tho, like the YT-2400(4/43) = 688, might be a tighter fit. However would still squeeze in at 3,440.

I also support the potentially 2x Enc if they are Launch Ready.

(edit, oh... The YT-2400 is smaller than the YT-1300, but it has better Hull/Strain due to better technology. Maybe incorporate Encumbrance as a multiplier afterall?)

For what it's worth, the Death Star has gotten an upgrade; it is now Silhouette 20:

The best part about that is that the Death Star is used as the definition for silhouette 10.

I know that states its the DS-1, but there were technically 2 Death Stars and 1 was VASTLY larger than the other

Using the potential Encumbrances found on this page

5 ^ Silhouette = 95,367,431,640,625
(Hull + Strain) x (2 ^ Silhouette) = 1,887,436,800
Silhouette x (Hull Points+Armor) x 4 = 81,600

Also Sil9, Praetor
5 ^ Silhouette = 1,953,125
(Hull + Strain) x (2 ^ Silhouette) = 143,360
Silhouette x (Hull Points+Armor) x 4 = 7,056

I could see the Death Star holding a few Praetors.

Also Sil8, Star Destroyer
5 ^ Silhouette = 390,625
(Hull + Strain) x (2 ^ Silhouette) = 52,480
Silhouette x (Hull Points+Armor) x 4 = 4,960

I can definitely see it carrying a bunch of Star Destroyers.

I, for one, really like the idea of sticking a Wayfarer inside of a Wayfarer. The real question is, does the encumbrance a vehivle is holding count towards its own encumbrance rating, or can you fit an indefinite number of wayfarers inside of each other like some kind of vehicular bag of holding?

In another old thread, Kirdan Kenobi discussed a similar encumbrance equation. I toyed with it for a bit using HT, Armor, and Silhouette, but realized this system isn't Traveller or Gurps , so went with a simple table that was so much simpler. Of course the house rules on cargo that I put that vehicle encumbrance table in grew to 10 pages. But, I'm very happy with what I ended up with . The discussion of carried vehicle encumbrance is on page 6, but also take note of the change to the Retrofitted Hangar Bay attachment on page 10.

30 minutes ago, Sturn said:

In another old thread, Kirdan Kenobi discussed a similar encumbrance equation. I toyed with it for a bit using HT, Armor, and Silhouette, but realized this system isn't Traveller or Gurps , so went with a simple table that was so much simpler. Of course the house rules on cargo that I put that vehicle encumbrance table in grew to 10 pages. But, I'm very happy with what I ended up with . The discussion of carried vehicle encumbrance is on page 6, but also take note of the change to the Retrofitted Hangar Bay attachment on page 10.

Does this mean I can't fit a bunch of Star Destroyers inside of another Star Destroyer anymore?