I guess I just don't think that moving all of your ships of same PS and then taking actions unaffected by that movement to be a "mistake". Just a different way of getting to the same end result.

Ok, but what if they aren't the same way of getting the same end result? What if by doing that way you're actually gaining an advantage?

That's the whole problem here, as long as people are taking that short cut, then every move becomes a judgement call on if that shortcut has an impact on the game or it doesn't. Moving 3 PS4 ships and dropping a focus on them? Sure that's most likely not going to have an effect. Moving those 3 ships then barrel rolling them? What about a TL, or some other action?

Isn't it better to do it in proper order and avoid any possible conflict in the first place?

For you, Vanor, yes. For others, not at all. I think you may have to acknowledge that it is a judgment call made on a person to person basis. To some that's okay. And considering it s a judgment call and we are constantly talking social stigmas and what is socially accepted you will probably never find a hard/fast rule. 11 pages into the thread and I don't think anyone has convinced anyone to switch sides. The one successful aspect to the thread is that it did illustrate the plethora of perspectives.

In actuality I think anyone asking for any take back is displaying poor sportsmanship by placing their opponent in an awkward position rather then just accepting you made a mistake and moving on. Games are won and lost on mistakes.

I guess I just don't think that moving all of your ships of same PS and then taking actions unaffected by that movement to be a "mistake". Just a different way of getting to the same end result. Yes, it isn't in the rules, but the guy is probably perfectly aware and capable of doing it the right way. It isn't that he "forgot" something and wanted a take-back. He knew all along he intended to take those actions.

Flying off the board? A mistake. Forgetting your action? A mistake. Forgetting Pilot ability? A mistake. I agree that you should just eat these mistakes and roll with it - not asking for, or at least not pushing for or expecting take-backs. And I don't feel people are obligated to give in on these. (I would, but I don't think everyone needs to)

Is it to much to ask, instead of following through with the short cut the player ask if it's ok to do so first?

I already covered why I think often this does not always happen earlier, so like I said, this thread is dead to me. (I promise this time!) Covering the same ground over and over.

To some that's okay. And considering it s a judgment call and we are constantly talking social stigmas and what is socially accepted you will probably never find a hard/fast rule.

Well that's just it, we already have a hard/fast rule. It's called the X-Wing Miniatures rule book, and the Tournament Rules PDF.

That is the whole point after all. The rules already exist, and are quite clear. They should be considered the default method of doing things when/if we can't agree on something. Yet it was said more then once, by more then one person, expecting both sides to abide by the default rules is being unfair and a poor sport.

Is it to much to ask, instead of following through with the short cut the player ask if it's ok to do so first?

No it's not, and for me at least I wouldn't come across the table with fists flying if someone did something like that without asking first.

The issue is when they refuse to stop doing it after you ask them to. Or when they act like you're a poor sport and playing unfairly wanting to win at all costs by asking them to play by the rules that there's an issue.

To some that's okay. And considering it s a judgment call and we are constantly talking social stigmas and what is socially accepted you will probably never find a hard/fast rule.

Well that's just it, we already have a hard/fast rule. It's called the X-Wing Miniatures rule book, and the Tournament Rules PDF.

That is the whole point after all. The rules already exist, and are quite clear. They should be considered the default method of doing things when/if we can't agree on something. Yet it was said more then once, by more then one person, expecting both sides to abide by the default rules is being unfair and a poor sport.

That might be the disconnect. There is no hard and fast rule for how people will treat you or perceive your actions. The rulebook says one thing, your friendly gaming group says another, and people expect to be treated a certain which is dependent upon each person's unique perspective. The rulebook tell you the rules for a game about spaceships. Trying to use the rulebook to make people treat you or view your actions a certain way is probably futile.

In actuality I think anyone asking for any take back is displaying poor sportsmanship by placing their opponent in an awkward position rather then just accepting you made a mistake and moving on. Games are won and lost on mistakes.

I guess I just don't think that moving all of your ships of same PS and then taking actions unaffected by that movement to be a "mistake". Just a different way of getting to the same end result. Yes, it isn't in the rules, but the guy is probably perfectly aware and capable of doing it the right way. It isn't that he "forgot" something and wanted a take-back. He knew all along he intended to take those actions.

Flying off the board? A mistake. Forgetting your action? A mistake. Forgetting Pilot ability? A mistake. I agree that you should just eat these mistakes and roll with it - not asking for, or at least not pushing for or expecting take-backs. And I don't feel people are obligated to give in on these. (I would, but I don't think everyone needs to)

Is it to much to ask, instead of following through with the short cut the player ask if it's ok to do so first?

I already covered why I think often this does not always happen earlier, so like I said, this thread is dead to me. (I promise this time!) Covering the same ground over and over.

GiraffeandZebra, I really wish you would talk with me over this matter. Not in an attempt to sway your opinion to the other side but rather find an agreeable solution. The most difficult thing about forums is the tone and intent of messages are completist subjective to the reader. You seem to be reasonable in your assessment of the issues. In an earlier post I mentioned a compromise but no one on the other side of the issue has made comment about it. It's difficult for me to work through the issue if I'm the only one who is expected to make an adjustment.

It really depends on the situation. Everything in life is a fine line. I've yet to play against someone I didn't like. If they were being mean or insulting, I would definately let them fly a falcon off the table!

1. Still, I really don't like people that want to win at all costs. And when I say win at all costs, I mean certain people will value winning as more important than allowing an opponent to feel good about themselves and have fun in the game as well. Often those people don't have a personality type that can even understand what I'm talking about, and it's not that their "bad" people, they are just wired differently. This is a game after all. Games are supposed to be primarily about having fun.

2. Lets look at the fly a falcon off the board example. A "win person" in the final game at worlds would say, "the rules are the rules, this game means too much - it's the finals! The dial is dial, you loose." A fly casual person would say, "it's the intent, that was an obvious mistake, I'll be gracious and allow a redo."

3. The irony is that If the win person won, his victory would forever be known as "his opponent flew off the board." Whereas if the fly casual guy won, his victory would go down as an epic display of sportsmanship and his prowess would never be questioned. Who would be considered the better player?

4. As a side note I've experienced this myself. In my 3rd or so game ever I played one of the best players in our area at a tournament. He knew it was my 3rd game and I remember I had a shot of winning but I turned my dial the wrong way. Instead of being able to shoot his wedge I was pointed off the board. It was obvious I had made a mistake but he said "the dial is the dial" and I was actually kind of mad. I approached the game much more casually than that.

However, that experience made me a much better player. I've never made that mistake since. Not once. I also consider that player a friend of mine now. So really it is a judgement call. It all comes down to whether you "get it" or not. You'll never be able to convince someone that doesn't.

1. Sometimes you run into an opponent who only "feels good about himself" if he's winning. Some of those even go to extremes (cheat) to make that happen. So ANY way you win that game you are, as defined in that paragraph, winning at all costs.

2. Here you are looking at the "stick a knife in it to make sure it's dead" player and someone who really doesn't seem to care at ALL about winning. Perhaps one should feel bad about seeing his opponent fly away but he shouldn't feel guilty enough about it to allow a different maneuver either. If a ship is stressed and a red maneuver is turned over do you feel bad for taking the dial and flying the opponent's ship off the board or do you look at the board and then select the best possible maneuver for him to use against you? I wonder how many bleeding hearts that would allow the opponent to "change his dial" so he doesn't fly off the board would alter a dial to the most advantageous spot for the opponent when given a chance instead of fly it off.

3. If you win because your opponent flies off the board it may be noted and "taint" your victory but it wasn't your fault. Sometimes people make bad choices although it may not always be obvious later or as remembered. TIE Interceptors jousting with X-Wings and B-Wings is almost never a good idea for the Imps but is there stigma attached to that? How about flying HSF right into a TIE Swarm? There are many mistakes that are made it's just that some are more obvious than others.

The better player from each scenario if both win? I guess you'll want to say the guy who made the game harder than it needed to be although that doesn't need to be the case. Besides it is also assuming that guy won when the win percentage in that situation will likely drop so that the "better player" points would be cancelled out by "loser" points when things are all done.

4. A great example of "following the rules" making you a better player even if learning that lesson really hurt.

Although it could spiral into a bigger conversation research has said that, at least in the States, many kids are being raised with no idea how to handle setbacks much less defeats. This is a game so when someone doesn't let you correct a mistake or take shortcuts you really need to be thankful it is happening in a SAFE environment where you can learn from that instead of somewhere that a mistake could actually cost you dearly. Sometimes the slack you give to someone is what he latter uses to hang himself.

As a side note I've experienced this myself. In my 3rd or so game ever I played one of the best players in our area at a tournament. He knew it was my 3rd game and I remember I had a shot of winning but I turned my dial the wrong way. Instead of being able to shoot his wedge I was pointed off the board. It was obvious I had made a mistake but he said "the dial is the dial" and I was actually kind of mad. I approached the game much more casually than that.

However, that experience made me a much better player. I've never made that mistake since. Not once. I also consider that player a friend of mine now. So really it is a judgement call. It all comes down to whether you "get it" or not. You'll never be able to convince someone that doesn't.

Thank you. Oh goodness, thank you. Actions have consequences, even if they are mistakes. We learn more from our mistakes than our success. Own your mistakes, and become better for it.

Rules are meant to be followed for a reason.

In a game like this, where millimeters matter, you better template each move. Especially considering the swarm where every millimeter matters. Moving a swarm is one of the only weaknesses of the list. Its an art to properly move a swarm and shouldn't be taken for granted.

The biggest thing for me is that just changing a ships orientation by a single degree can have a significant impact of the firing arc of said ship. How many times have you missed or hit an arc by less then a millimeter? Happens to me every single game.

Fly casual, but follow the rules.

Double post. Sorry.

I think I've only ever seen this when they all used the same straight maneuver. it speeds things up.

I have played in PLENTY of tournament games (in other game systems granted), and believe me...I've been graded down on "sportsman ship" more than once because I committed the gravest sin in my opponents eyes

I beat them

completely fair, no rules lawyering, no iffy game play.......I simply WON, when obviously (to them) that it shouldnt have happened, so since they cant nix my game score....they lower my sportsman ship score in order to "get even"

we have a name for those players....I just cant type it here without getting in trouble

all that aside, Im not a poor sport for not letting you fix a mistake automatically. a LOT of whether or not I allowed it? is based on your sportsmanship

be a jerk to me? I'll find a way to repay you...trust me I have a long memory....but play fair and be a good sport? I can return that just as easily

I worked for a law office in real life....rules lawyers annoy me, and the ones that somehow think they are special and deserve to get everything their way? annoy me worse

so...since its likely I will be called a poor sport either way? Im going to PURPOSELY pick the one that messes up your day as well

Im a vindictive old man that way...you, me and the TO will spend the next hour + arguing the rules until you get sick and tired and leave/give in or they throw me out...along with the rest of my game club, cause they will walk to

ask any TO about loosing 12 ppl from your tourney

so...be a poor sport to me and try to ram your "short cuts" down my throat, and we will blow the entire tourney up...OR act like someone with a bit of maturity and we will "fly casual" all day and enjoy the game...win or lose

your choice, not mine

as for the skill level of the other player determining whther or not I allow a redo/fix?

go to YouTube and watch the national championship round where the x-wing flies into an asteroid losing him the game

even skilled players make mistakes, at least he had the class to accept that he messed up instead of whining about it

I see we are waking this sleeping giant again. Careful GrimmJack, the causal players here are ferocious!

I see we are waking this sleeping giant again. Careful GrimmJack, the causal players here are ferocious!

I can't believe I'm taking the bait and posting in this thread again but here goes.

From the onset of this thread there were 2 distinct items presented. First the matter of requiring that templates be used for the vast majority of movements is absolutely crucial. The only time it can be somewhat acceptable to skip is if side by side ships are both (all) moving straight the same distsnce. Normally this is limited to you first round or two where taking a slight shortcut shouldn't be a major deal and it's just as easy to stop your opponent after they've lifted a ship w/o using the template to kindly ask they always use the template if it really bothers you. Banks and turns should never happen w/o templates. Period.

That being said it's nearly impossible to get every ship into the exact spot it should be especially if you have a large base ship that's attempting a 1 bank and you are going to bump in the midst of a crazy fur ball of ships. At times like that you need to be reasonable and try and get it right as best as possible but just know it won't be perfect.

The other distinct item brought up is what in my mind seems to be an extremely unfriendly and overly literal application of rules that serves to satisfy ones OCD tendencies (and let's be honest there are more than a couple of us that have them) as well as to create an advantage over other players that might be a little more laid back in their play style.

Now there are clearly times when an opponent is playing fast and loose with rules and trying to deliberately gain an advantage by not declaring actions or other things when required. I don't dispute those players are out there but that didn't seem to be the OP's target or example. Yes, one is within their right to apply an absolutely literal interpretation of rules and not deviate one iota. However flipping the dials of 3 ships simultaneously, declaring that they are all moving 3 straight and they are all going to focus, moving all the ships and then going back to lay tokens down should be a perfectly reasonable course of action. That saves time and should benefit your game in a tournament because the last thing you want is to wind up getting a modified win because your opponent is taking too long.

It's one thing to call out an opponent trying to gain an advantage or even stopping someone from fixing a mistake but it's another thing entirely to be over the top when it's not necessary.

I see we are waking this sleeping giant again. Careful GrimmJack, the causal players here are ferocious!

The other distinct item brought up is what in my mind seems to be an extremely unfriendly and overly literal application of rules that serves to satisfy ones OCD tendencies (and let's be honest there are more than a couple of us that have them) as well as to create an advantage over other players that might be a little more laid back in their play style.

Now there are clearly times when an opponent is playing fast and loose with rules and trying to deliberately gain an advantage by not declaring actions or other things when required. I don't dispute those players are out there but that didn't seem to be the OP's target or example. Yes, one is within their right to apply an absolutely literal interpretation of rules and not deviate one iota. However flipping the dials of 3 ships simultaneously, declaring that they are all moving 3 straight and they are all going to focus, moving all the ships and then going back to lay tokens down should be a perfectly reasonable course of action. That saves time and should benefit your game in a tournament because the last thing you want is to wind up getting a modified win because your opponent is taking too long.

It's one thing to call out an opponent trying to gain an advantage or even stopping someone from fixing a mistake but it's another thing entirely to be over the top when it's not necessary.

There is a time for everything in X-Wing. I would not recommend to a player flipping over all his dials and declaring all his actions before moving any of them. A player doing this is only giving himself a disadvantage. After each ship moves you get a little bit of information you can use to better determine what action is best for that ship. It is that information, however slight (plus the rules say so) a player should not be allowed to go back and declare an action. If we start saying this action but not that action is where the water gets real muddy.

So even with this one issue, there are two things happening. First, Should the rules be relaxed to accommodate these shorts cuts? Should FFG address these commonly used short cuts in the FAQ to give clear guidance. Second, the players who want to follow the rules as currently written and how do they handle the short cuts when their opponent does them.

On the first, until FFG officially changes the FAQ and or Tournament rules you will always have a group insisting both players follow the rules. Currently there is a section in the Tournament rules for this situation call "Missed Opportunities". This says the opposing player may grant or deny these miss opportunities when they happen. Ah, now the real meat of the issue. Should a player grant or deny the other players his missed actions? Here is where there seems to be a distinct line in the sand.

Ultimately, the section of "Missed Opportunities" leaves it to each player to decide. But, know this it's not the player performing the short cut who gets to decide. By performing these short cuts you leave your fate in the hands of the other player sitting across from you.

I see we are waking this sleeping giant again. Careful GrimmJack, the causal players here are ferocious!

The other distinct item brought up is what in my mind seems to be an extremely unfriendly and overly literal application of rules that serves to satisfy ones OCD tendencies (and let's be honest there are more than a couple of us that have them) as well as to create an advantage over other players that might be a little more laid back in their play style.

Now there are clearly times when an opponent is playing fast and loose with rules and trying to deliberately gain an advantage by not declaring actions or other things when required. I don't dispute those players are out there but that didn't seem to be the OP's target or example. Yes, one is within their right to apply an absolutely literal interpretation of rules and not deviate one iota. However flipping the dials of 3 ships simultaneously, declaring that they are all moving 3 straight and they are all going to focus, moving all the ships and then going back to lay tokens down should be a perfectly reasonable course of action. That saves time and should benefit your game in a tournament because the last thing you want is to wind up getting a modified win because your opponent is taking too long.

It's one thing to call out an opponent trying to gain an advantage or even stopping someone from fixing a mistake but it's another thing entirely to be over the top when it's not necessary.

There is a time for everything in X-Wing. I would not recommend to a player flipping over all his dials and declaring all his actions before moving any of them. A player doing this is only giving himself a disadvantage. After each ship moves you get a little bit of information you can use to better determine what action is best for that ship. It is that information, however slight (plus the rules say so) a player should not be allowed to go back and declare an action. If we start saying this action but not that action is where the water gets real muddy.

So even with this one issue, there are two things happening. First, Should the rules be relaxed to accommodate these shorts cuts? Should FFG address these commonly used short cuts in the FAQ to give clear guidance. Second, the players who want to follow the rules as currently written and how do they handle the short cuts when their opponent does them.

On the first, until FFG officially changes the FAQ and or Tournament rules you will always have a group insisting both players follow the rules. Currently there is a section in the Tournament rules for this situation call "Missed Opportunities". This says the opposing player may grant or deny these miss opportunities when they happen. Ah, now the real meat of the issue. Should a player grant or deny the other players his missed actions? Here is where there seems to be a distinct line in the sand.

Ultimately, the section of "Missed Opportunities" leaves it to each player to decide. But, know this it's not the player performing the short cut who gets to decide. By performing these short cuts you leave your fate in the hands of the other player sitting across from you.

Really?

Lighten up. We're talking about the simplest things here that you are turning into something completely different.

Lost art in this day of electronics and social media... face to face communication. Be able to state you point without making it a pissing contest. Counterpoint without making it personal. A simple "hey is it cool if I ________ "is enough for me. On the flip, you need to respect the person across the table too, and if they don't think it's a good idea, just play it out by the rules. Is I see someone doing a short cut, I recognize it and it it's legit I let it go. I corrected a guy that was incorrectly lining up his banks thinking if you put them just outside a peg ( in-between pegs was through a ship) that simply putting it 9 the back out is peg was the same maneuver. I didn't tell or scream, I showed him the difference (quite a bit) and we played on. It all boils down to two things, respect the person across the table, and respect yourself.

I know it's hard to get inflection when you read something posted in the forums. I'm not really upset by my previous comment. I was just trying to say that the issues discussed in this tread are a personal choice. Some are ok with the short cuts, some are not. Ultimately the view of the opposing player in what gets enforced. So if your opponent does not allow short cuts, respect his choice and abide by the rules. If your opponent is ok with short cuts, then everything is fine. So if you are a player who uses short cuts, it's best to find out what side your opponent is on before executing them. This will help keep things at an even level and things will turn out fine.

After each ship moves you get a little bit of information you can use to better determine what action is best for that ship. It is that information, however slight (plus the rules say so) a player should not be allowed to go back and declare an action. If we start saying this action but not that action is where the water gets real muddy.

1) Moving a ship, doing some other stuff, and then realizing that you forgot an action and asking to go back and do it.

2) Moving a set of ships in sequence (typically nearby ships with similar moves) and then dropping tokens, without stopping to think .

The first situation is clearly a case of forgetting a play, and you shouldn't expect to be able to go back and fix your mistake. But the second situation is completely different, it is a case of being a bit casual about declaring your actions as you perform them in the correct sequence, not an "oops I really wanted to do X instead" mistake. You know exactly what you're going to do with those ships and don't change your plans as you execute the moves, you just don't explicitly announce every step in the exact formal activation rules because the precise timing of the steps doesn't matter at that point in the game.

Second, the players who want to follow the rules as currently written and how do they handle the short cuts when their opponent does them.

Currently there is a section in the Tournament rules for this situation call "Missed Opportunities".

By performing these short cuts you leave your fate in the hands of the other player sitting across from you.

By performing these short cuts you leave your fate in the hands of the other player sitting across from you.

Really? What are you going to do if I refuse to accept your over-literal nonsense and just put the focus tokens next to my ships, then spend them to modify dice? Are you going to remove my ships from the table when you think you've killed them? Are you going to keep rolling dice for a ship that I killed with a focused attack and am now ignoring entirely every time you try to do something with it? The only way you can put the outcome entirely in your hands is to quit the game in protest, in which case I'll happily take the free win and be glad I don't have to play against you anymore.

I fail to see how following the rules when playing someone who insists their shortcuts are perfectly legal and who dismisses any objection because they see it as "over-literal nonsense" is a bad thing. In this scenario, forfeiting the game would be the worst thing to do, as this type of attitude shouldn't be encouraged. The TO would be the one to enforce the "over-literal nonsense". No need for another player to put up with this type of attitude, especially so when there are clear steps to follow when playing someone so vitriolic.

As stated previously by others, communication works wonders in this game. Come to an agreement on the subject of shortcuts for the sake of speed. If one cannot be reached, fall back to the rules as spelled out. It's simple, impartial and helpful.

Enjoy the experience and make some friends along the way. It's a great game.

...

By performing these short cuts you leave your fate in the hands of the other player sitting across from you.

Really? What are you going to do if I refuse to accept your over-literal nonsense and just put the focus tokens next to my ships, then spend them to modify dice? Are you going to remove my ships from the table when you think you've killed them? Are you going to keep rolling dice for a ship that I killed with a focused attack and am now ignoring entirely every time you try to do something with it? The only way you can put the outcome entirely in your hands is to quit the game in protest, in which case I'll happily take the free win and be glad I don't have to play against you anymore.

since with statements you kind of disqualified yourself as serious discussion and gaming partner anyhow, just let us file that under the category "avoid if possible" and move on.

aside from the do or do not question in terms of rules/social interaction here in the thread, I wondered if there are other practical consequences of shortcuts. For example, shortcuts imply spared time for more rounds in a timed setting. I haven't played any timed matches so I'm missing the relevant facts. Do more rounds translate into an advantage for certain lists or are they positive for everyone? Depending on the answer to that question the answer to the global thread topic might also be different.

since with statements you kind of disqualified yourself as serious discussion and gaming partner anyhow, just let us file that under the category "avoid if possible" and move on.

How is that any different from someone declaring "I get to decide how we play the game, if you don't announce your actions the way I want you to then you don't get to take them"? If my opponent decides to arbitrarily appoint themself the official judge of what is and isn't acceptable then I see no reason to respect that decision. I reserve the right to just ignore my opponent's childish behavior and continue playing the game as it should be.

Do more rounds translate into an advantage for certain lists or are they positive for everyone?

It can't possibly be an unfair advantage for anyone because the time saved is small in comparison to all of the other variables in how many turns you get in before the time limit. Drop a die on the floor and you've probably negated the entire "extra" time you saved by declaring "everyone moves 4-straight and focuses".

The real reason to take shortcuts isn't the time limit on the match, it's the fact that many situations, especially early in the game, are pretty boring and there's no need to tediously go through explicitly stating every step of the activation sequence for each ship. If you have a bunch of ships doing the same moves and actions just move them quickly and get to the interesting part of the game.

since with statements you kind of disqualified yourself as serious discussion and gaming partner anyhow, just let us file that under the category "avoid if possible" and move on.

How is that any different from someone declaring "I get to decide how we play the game, if you don't announce your actions the way I want you to then you don't get to take them"? If my opponent decides to arbitrarily appoint themself the official judge of what is and isn't acceptable then I see no reason to respect that decision. I reserve the right to just ignore my opponent's childish behavior and continue playing the game as it should be.

Do more rounds translate into an advantage for certain lists or are they positive for everyone?

It can't possibly be an unfair advantage for anyone because the time saved is small in comparison to all of the other variables in how many turns you get in before the time limit. Drop a die on the floor and you've probably negated the entire "extra" time you saved by declaring "everyone moves 4-straight and focuses".The real reason to take shortcuts isn't the time limit on the match, it's the fact that many situations, especially early in the game, are pretty boring and there's no need to tediously go through explicitly stating every step of the activation sequence for each ship. If you have a bunch of ships doing the same moves and actions just move them quickly and get to the interesting part of the game.

Here is the direction Fantasy Flight Games has given on our situation in the Tournament Rules.

"Missed Opportunities

Players are expected to play optimally, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his opponent. Players are expected to act with respect and not intentionally distract or rush an opponent with the intent of forcing a missed opportunity.

Here is the Activation Phase word for word in the rule book.

"activation phase

During this phase, each ship is activated one at a

time. Starting with the ship with the lowest pilot skill, resolve the following steps in order:

1. reveal Dial: Reveal the active ship’s maneuver dial by flipping it faceup.

2. Set Template: Take the maneuver template that matches the chosen maneuver on the dial and slide the template between the front guides of the ship’s base (the two small bumps).

Insert it so that the end of the template is flush against the base.

3. execute Maneuver: Holding the template firmly in place, grip the side walls of the base and lift the ship off the play surface. Then place the ship at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the ship into the opposite end of the template.

4. check pilot Stress: If the ship just executed a red maneuver, place one stress token near the ship. If the ship just executed a green maneuver, remove one stress token from the ship (if any) and return the token to the miscellaneous token supply (see “Stress” on page 17).

5. clean up: Return the used template to the pile of maneuver templates. Place the revealed dial outside the play area, near the ship’s corresponding Ship card.

6. perform action: The ship may perform one action. Actions provide a wide range of benefits and are described on pages 8–9. A ship with one or more stress tokens cannot perform actions (see “Stress” on page 17)."

If you were to just place the tokens as you've described. There's only one things I can do and ask the TO to intervene and settle the situation. I would use the above rules as my argument to my case. What would you use? Most TO's are easy going guys, but I would not take the stance of "deal with it" with them. You'll likely end up looking in from the outside.

Now I have offered an alternative to your short cut with no word from you on it. How about instead of playing silently moving all your ships and then going back and place all the tokens. As you move each ship verbally declare your action for the ship you just moved before you grab that next one.

As a swarm player, I tend not to cut the corners but to play devils advocate here:

If you have a problem with your swarm opponent grouping his movements and actions and cutting corners and not following the strictest of rules: How will you feel when your opponent adheres to your strict requirements but this causes him to take longer during the game, not an intentional delay just normal delay for having more ships (though I often find myself with 8 ships ready before my opponent who has 3-4 ships)? This delay in the game could be the difference between you scoring a modified or full win for the round. Just a thought...

If my opponent decides to arbitrarily appoint themself the official judge of what is and isn't acceptable then I see no reason to respect that decision.

They're doing no such thing. They're asking you to pay by the rules as written. This is pretty much the exact opposite of arbitrary judgment of what is or isn't acceptable. You are the one who's making arbitrary decisions here, and insisting that your subjective opinion is the only one that counts.

When you play, especially in a tournament, you have 3 options.

Play by the rules as written.

Play with shortcuts and then are subject to the other person allowing or not allowing them.

Forfeit the match or get kicked out by the TO for cheating.

The rules are extremely simple, the activation steps are clearly defined, and not subject to interpretation or debate. We're not talking about a debate like the double decloak of a phantom where the debate hinges on if "card effect" means something or not.

You are free to make what ever argument you want for taking shortcuts, many of us may even agree with them. But when it comes down to it, the rules are the rules. If you won't follow the rules you will be removed from a tournament.

You (the people who want to take shortcuts) don't have any power in this situation. The only thing you can do is try and get the other person to agree to allow them, but it's their decision to allow or not, you have no authority to make them agree. If you can't get them to agree, your choice is either play by the rules as written or forfeit the match.

Because if you keep using shortcuts after being asked not to, you are in fact cheating, and no TO worth his/her salt will let you get away with it.

If the shortcut has an impact on the game doesn't matter.

The fact that they're all PS X ships doesn't matter.

Your opinion on why shortcuts are ok doesn't matter.

How strong of an argument on why they should be allowed doesn't matter.

The fact that you're trying to skip past the 'boring' part doesn't matter.

You are bypassing the rules as written, and if the other person asks you not to do that, you really don't get a choice in the matter. You either play by the rules as written or you quit playing, because the 'force of law' as it were is on his side.

You brought up the idea of a ticket for 1mph over the speed limit. But what you failed to recognize that was you were in fact speeding, and you have no power in that situation. Unless you can somehow convince the cop to let you go, you will get a speeding ticket.