What's the consensus on TIE Swarm movement etiquette? I've faced several in recent tournaments, and without exception, the players feel like they can just set up in perfect formation, move one TIE using the template, and then just pick up the subsequent ships (sometimes just the ones with the same pilot skill, sometimes all the ones that are in the same formation) and move them to maintain the same relative position with the first ship.

I've not brought it up at the table -- I'm pretty casual even in tournament play -- but it kind of bugs me. TIE swarms are a pain in the ass enough as it is, but they require exact positioning. I feel like ignoring the minor discrepancies that creep into ship positioning during play, whether from the inadvertent jostle, the slight variations from template placement, etc., flies (as it were) in the face of what it should take to maintain formation flying, and makes running an effective swarm easier than it should be. It also makes it faster, which is an issue in tournament play.

Wait... so you're saying that your opponent flying the Tie swarm moves his ship in the front using the template, then just picks up the remaining ships behind it and just puts them "in formation" behind it, without using individual dials or templates?

If this is true, they are DEFINITELY playing it wrong. Just because people like to fly Tie's in swarms, (myself included) doesn't mean those ships don't need dials. They need to use the dials just as much as any other ship, regardless if they want it to 'stay in formation.'

Part of what makes Ties so much fun is planning out your exact moves, and it working. If you only had to measure/move one ship, Ties would be extremely overpowered. What makes them harder to use is the possibility of swarming into a Tie pile.

I've never seen them not use the dials, although, honestly, I've never looked or had someone look at my dials to see if what was executed matched what was planned.

But yeah, frequently seen them move without using the template to maintain the formation.

Wait... so you're saying that your opponent flying the Tie swarm moves his ship in the front using the template, then just picks up the remaining ships behind it and just puts them "in formation" behind it, without using individual dials or templates?

If this is true, they are DEFINITELY playing it wrong. Just because people like to fly Tie's in swarms, (myself included) doesn't mean those ships don't need dials. They need to use the dials just as much as any other ship, regardless if they want it to 'stay in formation.'

Part of what makes Ties so much fun is planning out your exact moves, and it working. If you only had to measure/move one ship, Ties would be extremely overpowered. What makes them harder to use is the possibility of swarming into a Tie pile.

I'm in total agreement here. If you want to fly a swarm, you take on the responsibility of good piloting all the way through. Swarms are devastating when flown correctly, so I would call out my opponent on actually flying the ships and not just pushing stuff along.

I think they're still using dials. Just not using templates to move the rest of the formation.

If every ship in the formation does the same maneuver and started off in proper formation, they'll end up in the same spot each time, so I'm not sure I see a big deal here. Sure when you set them up they may not all be in prefect formation. But they wouldn't end up in perfect formation after you move them either way.

Agreed. The ships never end up in 100% formation, so the template *needs* to be used in each instance of movement. He could well end up giving actions to ships that would have ordinarily crashed (I seem to find that focus makes all the difference in a swarm), not a fan of that at all.

I'm not a proper rules lawyer, I make plenty of mistakes myself (knocking ships is my specialty ;D) but that's something that can be easily avoided.

I have seen this in non-swarm squads. A guy was running 3 x-wings that were touching side to side and asked if he could just move them all up together. While in theory yes they would move and not overlap (assuming they are exactly parallel,) it still bugged me he didn't want to put his template maneuver down to move his ship.

I think they're still using dials. Just not using templates to move the rest of the formation.

If every ship in the formation does the same maneuver and started off in proper formation, they'll end up in the same spot each time, so I'm not sure I see a big deal here. Sure when you set them up they may not all be in prefect formation. But they wouldn't end up in perfect formation after you move them either way.

That's not true. It's only true when doing straights. And hard turns if you set up properly. But with banks, it's completely different... In order to clear, the outside needs to be a speed faster.

I think they're still using dials. Just not using templates to move the rest of the formation.

If every ship in the formation does the same maneuver and started off in proper formation, they'll end up in the same spot each time, so I'm not sure I see a big deal here. Sure when you set them up they may not all be in prefect formation. But they wouldn't end up in perfect formation after you move them either way.

That's not true. It's only true when doing straights. And hard turns if you set up properly. But with banks, it's completely different... In order to clear, the outside needs to be a speed faster.

Precisely. And if my opponent wants to fly a swarm, I would want to see that they understand what they're doing, and are genuinely skilled enough to fly what they've put on the table.

But yeah, frequently seen them move without using the template to maintain the formation.

I think they're still using dials. Just not using templates to move the rest of the formation.

I have seen this in non-swarm squads. A guy was running 3 x-wings that were touching side to side and asked if he could just move them all up together. While in theory yes they would move and not overlap ( assuming they are exactly parallel ,) it still bugged me he didn't want to put his template maneuver down to move his ship.

This brings up a good point... When your opponent moved, are you talking about him only moving forward , or banks and turns as well?

I don't have as much of a problem if all the ships are doing the EXACT same move FORWARD. Using it as a time saver, I can kinda of appreciate it (as long as they don't have a problem using the template if you ask them to)

But around corners, (as stated above) literally changes the position of the ships themselves.

knocking ships is my specialty ;D

Nothing 'ruins the mood' more than getting super excited about a shot and going to measure it... only to smack my/my opponents ships halfway across the room. >.<

The best part is if they bank it messes up the sitting positions relative to others. I was told I was taking things to serious when at the Store Championship I played at yesterday when my opponent moved both daggers and went back to focus the first one and I said he couldn't. My understanding is you move and then action. So did the guy also move all and then claimed to give all an action. I would only allow him to take the action on the very last one he picked up ( outside of Using the template for movements).

That's not true. It's only true when doing straights.

True I was thinking of the opening turn and moving the whole formation forward 3 or 4 straight. Hard turns or banks change things and in those cases yeah you should use templates for each ship.

knocking ships is my specialty ;D

Nothing 'ruins the mood' more than getting super excited about a shot and going to measure it... only to smack my/my opponents ships halfway across the room. >.<

I feel superbad when I perform an awesome, unexpected maneuver and *just* managed to get the opponent in my arc, only to nudge it slightly.

call him on it, seems fishy to me. The rules state : "Players must assign a dial to each ship" and bumps happen, and you need to deal with it Tourney rules say :Margin of Error
Ships are sometimes moved accidentally or placed inexactly during the normal course of the game. A
small margin of error is allowed in the position and orientation of ships in these situations so that the
pace of the game is not unnecessarily affected. Players should not abuse this margin of error, and they
must use the tools included with the game to be as accurate as possible. In the event of a dispute, the
TO has the final authority on ruling and can disqualify unsportsmanlike players.

tell him to do it as it does matter. He may mess up a dial and will have to deal with it.

The best part is if they bank it messes up the sitting positions relative to others. I was told I was taking things to serious when at the Store Championship I played at yesterday when my opponent moved both daggers and went back to focus the first one and I said he couldn't. My understanding is you move and then action. So did the guy also move all and then claimed to give all an action. I would only allow him to take the action on the very last one he picked up ( outside of Using the template for movements).

If they're the same PS, yes, you're being too uptight. If he wants to drop tokens at the same time, that's fine. Now, if he's going to barrel roll after moving both, that's a big no no.

I've seen this several times and not even just in swarms. Sometimes it's just players being lazy.

Most recently I've played a few games (in tournaments) where someone has revealed a maneuver, saw that the ship would bump and then picked it up and moved it by hand in an approximation of the turn until it bumped.

I was flabbergasted! I could not believe it.

Definitely one of my pet peeves in X-wing.

I generally say to opponents go ahead and move using 1 measured and the rest in formation. It speeds the early turns up. I also am happy for people to realign after moves. For example if we know a ship has not been obstructed and it was set up parallel to the board edge at the start then by all means straighten it up. Now once a ship has bumped then all bets are off, and similarly when looking at close arcs and similar then all moves are measured.

The best part is if they bank it messes up the sitting positions relative to others. I was told I was taking things to serious when at the Store Championship I played at yesterday when my opponent moved both daggers and went back to focus the first one and I said he couldn't. My understanding is you move and then action. So did the guy also move all and then claimed to give all an action. I would only allow him to take the action on the very last one he picked up ( outside of Using the template for movements).

If they're the same PS, yes, you're being too uptight. If he wants to drop tokens at the same time, that's fine. Now, if he's going to barrel roll after moving both, that's a big no no.

Yeah I don't think there is any problem with moving ships with the same pilots skill together (with templates!) and then taking their actions at the same time.

I was told I was taking things to serious when at the Store Championship I played at yesterday when my opponent moved both daggers and went back to focus the first one and I said he couldn't.

The rules are actually quite clear there. You move the ship, then take an action, before anyone moves another ship.

Typically if you're moving your ships all with the same PS, most people are cool with you taking actions for them all at the same time. Because doing so doesn't really have any impact on the game, other PS ships haven't moved, or the other guys. So what action you can or should take doesn't actually change in that kind of situation. You're not cheating or gaining any sort of unfair advantage by doing that.

The best part is if they bank it messes up the sitting positions relative to others. I was told I was taking things to serious when at the Store Championship I played at yesterday when my opponent moved both daggers and went back to focus the first one and I said he couldn't. My understanding is you move and then action. So did the guy also move all and then claimed to give all an action. I would only allow him to take the action on the very last one he picked up ( outside of Using the template for movements).

That's kinda the antithesis of fly casual. Enjoy the game and play it as a game, don't be an ass...

I would also say if you do want to play like that, then you should give 1 warning and then enforce the rule. So the first time he does it, you say "You are not following the letter of the rules, please do so. Next time I will not allow you to perform an action on any ship but the last."

The best part is if they bank it messes up the sitting positions relative to others. I was told I was taking things to serious when at the Store Championship I played at yesterday when my opponent moved both daggers and went back to focus the first one and I said he couldn't. My understanding is you move and then action. So did the guy also move all and then claimed to give all an action. I would only allow him to take the action on the very last one he picked up ( outside of Using the template for movements).

If they're the same PS, yes, you're being too uptight. If he wants to drop tokens at the same time, that's fine. Now, if he's going to barrel roll after moving both, that's a big no no.

This is how I feel as well. I appreciate time savers.

If they decide to put tokens on their same-PS ships, right after they move them, does this put you at a disadvantage? True, the rules state the "proper sequence of a turn" but dropping a few focus/evade tokens right after they move doesn't hurt you, or help them in any way other than saving a few seconds moving ships at the same time, then dropping tokens.

Also, 999th p ost, Khyros!

I would absolutely insist that the swarm player move each ship individually using the templates. In casual play or practice, I'm okay with people using whatever shortcuts they want, but in a tournament scenario, people need to follow the actual rules and move each ship with the templates (especially since moving the ships as a block gives a potentially significant advantage to the swarm player).

I generally say to opponents go ahead and move using 1 measured and the rest in formation. It speeds the early turns up. I also am happy for people to realign after moves. For example if we know a ship has not been obstructed and it was set up parallel to the board edge at the start then by all means straighten it up. Now once a ship has bumped then all bets are off, and similarly when looking at close arcs and similar then all moves are measured.

I'm just not comfortable with that. Unless they are going to measure to make sure the distance between the ships is exactly what it was before the move, which would take more time than using the templates in the first place.

How many games have you been in where you ship just barely lands on an asteroid or bumps a ship by a millimeter or two? When moving them by hand there is too much room for them to fudge things. In most cases I'm sure it's not even intentional but it matters.

X-wing is a precision game, that's why it has templates to follow and not just tape measures like other table top miniature games.

The best part is if they bank it messes up the sitting positions relative to others. I was told I was taking things to serious when at the Store Championship I played at yesterday when my opponent moved both daggers and went back to focus the first one and I said he couldn't. My understanding is you move and then action. So did the guy also move all and then claimed to give all an action. I would only allow him to take the action on the very last one he picked up ( outside of Using the template for movements).

That's kinda the antithesis of fly casual. Enjoy the game and play it as a game, don't be an ass...

I would also say if you do want to play like that, then you should give 1 warning and then enforce the rule. So the first time he does it, you say "You are not following the letter of the rules, please do so. Next time I will not allow you to perform an action on any ship but the last."

I tend to follow the "one warning" approach. I've also been on the receiving end of that approach and I appreciate it.

I do give a warning on that meaningless first move, as most ships don't end up with a shot. Please understand this is also at the Store Championship, I do take that serious. For the guys who say it's ok to move all the same PS then go back and give actions. Here is my squad Dutch, Garvin, Kyle all PS 6 and depend on range when they use an action. so you'd let me move all my ships then measure range?