They're going to have to knock that scale a bit more if we're to have any chance of even remotely iconic Imperial ships...

That's fine with me. I think most of us are willing to see the scale moved a bit here and there, as long as things don't look too far off when they're on the table.

There's a rather massive difference between a Lancer that's even 4 to 6 inches shorter then it should be, vs a ISD that's 14 feet shorter then it should be.

Plus, even fans well-familiar with ships like the Lancer or Carrack have read more about the ships then they've seen them, so scale reducing will be easier to accept.

so scale reducing will be easier to accept.

Yeah you put a 16-18 inch lancer on the table even next to a CR-90 and I don't think the scale would seem quite so far off.

OK, so Star Destroyers are clearly out of the question if we're going to maintain anything resembling the current scale.

I'd still love to see a Nebulon B Frigate, though.

Twice as long as a Corvette (300m), It's width is half a Corvette's length (72m) and just slightly taller than a Corvette's length (166m)... that's doable, right? ......right?

It would need an amazing flying base, though.

It being successful isn't really all that debatable.

Yes but it could of been more successful if they had kept things to the proper scale. I know a number of people who have come right out and said they'll never touch the game due to the poor models and scale.

So throwing scale out the window because it doesn't matter is a very debatable point.

People like that are a distinct minority of gamers. Such a minority, that it impacts the success of the game, NOT one...bit. Rational people get over it and decided to play with their litle toy spaceships on their kitchen table anyways.

Because if we wanna talk about how real a simulation the game is....you're a guy, standing behind a table with little hard plstic/resin big boy toys, who sometimes make swooshing or ZAP pew pew sounds with our fighters as we move them at each other.

I suppose for some it's serious business.

People like that are a distinct minority of gamers.

Prove it. Provide us the poll you've done among X-Wing players that states the clear majority of us won't care if the IDS is 1/100th the size it should be.

Because until you can do that, and I know you can't... You have zero credibility on the boards. Any you had was lost when you started throwing around terms like Nazi, and all the other ad hominem attacks you make.

People like that are a distinct minority of gamers.

Prove it. Provide us the poll you've done among X-Wing players that states the clear majority of us won't care if the IDS is 1/100th the size it should be.

Because until you can do that, and I know you can't... You have zero credibility on the boards. Any you had was lost when you started throwing around terms like Nazi.

Fact. People who post on forums are a minority onto themselves. Those who are even vocal against such things are a minority in a minority. That's how it works on MMO forums. That's how it works on other game forums.

Hey, if you connected to the term being used, that's your fault. It was a floating reference not directed at any poster in particular. It's up to you to pick that torch up and take offense.

I think of most radicals clinging to failing beliefs of a fading faith in such a way. Nazi, Taliban, Republican, Democract. All very much the same category these days. I'm a historian and very impartial and neutral with such words. They aren't a boogie man to me.

You wan't the game to stay strictly star fighter focused and it will, for normal play. Other forms of play are evolving. Stop acting like a typical American and embrace change for once....in a good way.

I'm going to buy that 30 inch Super Star Destroyer and other capital ships in scale with it. They will be much smaller. Use the FFG rules for those ships and inject into the brains of players that each fighter is a squadron, lead by your chosen unique character, as an alternate form of play. I'm sure we'll have a blast.

I just took a valium. I don't have the energy to tell you off twice in one day.

Now you're just being rude, and proving what Vanor said.. throw your tantrum elsewhere

Now you're just being rude, and proving what Vanor said.. throw your tantrum elsewhere

....that's a tantrum? 0_o IF you serve the dish, expect the desert.

No, you're making claims you have no basis for making. Your fact... is unfounded, you've not polled the world to find out the truth. Calling peole names diminishes your point and makes you look childish.

And you've missed the obvious point... you're rudeness is unappreciated and unwanted ..

No, you're making claims you have no basis for making. Your fact... is unfounded, you've not polled the world to find out the truth. Calling peole names diminishes your point and makes you look childish.

And you've missed the obvious point... you're rudeness is unappreciated and unwanted ..

A claim that a minority of caring gamers (who are a minority themselves of the overall player base) who play this game, think the game would be doomed if scale was fudged a bit for some capital ships....

I don't need statistics to observe that this game is just like every other game out there. People who read forums are a minority of a games playerbase and those who are actively vocal are a minority even among them.

That's how it is. Truth is truth whether you believe it or not. Truth doesn't require you to believe.

People who post on forums are a minority onto themselves.

So in other words you can't actually prove it.

You clearly also have on clue what a representative sample is, because the boards like all other forms of polling take a sample of the population as a whole and can detect trends and general opinions.

So that means if the majority of the people on a form are against a thing, then the majority of the player base quite likely feels the same way.

You also are so clearly unable to make a rational and logical argument that you have no choice but to resort to name calling, which frankly does more damage to you then anything I could say.

Google it yourself. I won't act as teacher when you can do a short search and find that out for yourself. If you don't trust what I'm saying, put some weight behind your distrust.

A forum population might be 10% or even 20% of the gaming population, if the company is lucky. Most people stay away from being active forum users. Do the math where minority beliefs of the state of the fame fit.

Burden of proof is on you.. you made the statement..

A statement from over two decades of physical and virtual gaming experience. Do some legwork into MMO forum populations and the politics of minorities getting aspects of a game changed due to the same people spinning their wheels on an issue.

I'm to handover a research term paper to a prof am I? Should I cite sources? I cite...the interwebs. It's at your disposal.

To be honest boys and girls, you're arguing over a rule set that we haven't seen yet, but in all likelihood has been finished, locked in and sent off to the printers. Just swallow your arguments and wait for the rules to be released, or spoilered by FFG. Until then all we have is speculation and that just isn't worth fighting over the way some on the forums are.

if you don't trust what I'm saying, put some weight behind your distrust.

Don't need to, because I know you're wrong. Anyone who took a Poli-sci 101 course knows how wrong you are. Polls are based on a much, much smaller % then 10% to 20%. Quite often they'll be based on as few as 1,000 out of what 300 million people?

So I don't need to google anything, because unlike you, I actually know what I'm talking about.

But feel free to keep posting the same nonsense you have... You're only helping my argument by doing so.

Polls on a forum which represent a very small minority of a gaming population isn't accurate at all. Polls. Cute.

It being successful isn't really all that debatable.

Yes but it could of been more successful if they had kept things to the proper scale. I know a number of people who have come right out and said they'll never touch the game due to the poor models and scale.

So throwing scale out the window because it doesn't matter is a very debatable point.

People like that are a distinct minority of gamers. Such a minority, that it impacts the success of the game, NOT one...bit. Rational people get over it and decided to play with their litle toy spaceships on their kitchen table anyways.

Because if we wanna talk about how real a simulation the game is....you're a guy, standing behind a table with little hard plstic/resin big boy toys, who sometimes make swooshing or ZAP pew pew sounds with our fighters as we move them at each other.

I suppose for some it's serious business.

What?

This isnt real?

This is a game?

What the @#$& have I been spending my money on????!!!!!

People like that are a distinct minority of gamers.

Prove it. Provide us the poll you've done among X-Wing players that states the clear majority of us won't care if the IDS is 1/100th the size it should be.

Because until you can do that, and I know you can't... You have zero credibility on the boards. Any you had was lost when you started throwing around terms like Nazi, and all the other ad hominem attacks you make.

Internet polls aren't exactly the height of credibility either though. Perhaps some examples of other games instead? Remember that cardboard model game for example? Terrible game with low quality models and dreadful rules. Know what people complained the least about? The scale.

Or perhaps Battlefleet Gothic? That game actually explicitly noted in its rulebooks that the models were just for show and that the ships were about the size of the little plastic base. Nobody cared, everyone enjoyed the game.

Then there is the aforementioned Star Trek game. Yes, people are vocal about the scale there. Quite so. They're even more vocal about the dreadful model quality (and having held some, yee gods are they terrible). But stores still sell it, and people still play it.

What?

This isnt real?

This is a game?

What the @#$& have I been spending my money on????!!!!!

Shhhhhh, relax. It's real. Look, over there, a shiny new TIE phantom is being developed by our mighty Emperor. See? It's real.

I am glad that this post spiraled so well into a debate/mudslinging session about the merits of an actual Star Destroyer model or not, is it ok to change scale or not, a discussion of who and how many games read/post on these forums and other nonsense. I still think it will be cool to have an "off camera", "off board edge", etc. usage of a Star Destroyer in this game. That was my original idea when I started this post, and after 100ish post later, I still feel pretty much the same. Thanks for the discussion.

Geez guys, I left when it seems we were having an intelligent cordial discussion and now I come back and it looks like everyone hates each other.

I was just going to point out that this is debatable because it's completely based on personal opinion. There's no right or wrong answer when it comes to scale as discussed on this board because the limits of what is OK for scale depends on each individual. If you couldn't tell before I would be ok with an ISD at least twice as long as the CR90, but I may be a minority on this board.

As to the power of the ISD I don't want to complain about it or say its impossible until we see something come down the pipeline from FFG. I can't bring myself to say it would never happen just because generally the only absolute thing in life is that everything is possible (apologies for the philosophical mumbo). Then we get to the issue of them nerfing the power of the ISD and I can't bring myself to say the would have to depower the thing to fit it into the game because that get's dangerously close to the yells of "OP" or this is "Broken" or "...is dead" that we've been seeing pop up since they started announcing releases rapid fire. The problem is we won't know how the new stuff, even the conjectural ISD, will perform until it hits the table.

Ultimately I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll see a decent ISD

Wizkids is wizkids. They already had the moulds or piles of left over miniatures for certain sculpts already. They have many of the same sculpts for THREE different games they produce...all Star Trek. I figure they tried to keep the icon ships to scale...sort of. Enterprise. Vorcha. Warbird and then went "F it". People don't want to spend $15 on a BIrd of Prey the size of a nickel....and they would be right.

Why not? They spend $15 on an Enterprise the size of a nickel . . .

I did that for the cards...and discarded the model. Perhaps I'll make it into a key chain.

It is the worst...model...evar...

I did that for the cards...and discarded the model. Perhaps I'll make it into a key chain.

It is the worst...model...evar...

Here's one thing we can agree on..