What it really comes down to is that from a marketing standpoint there is excellant reason to make a Star Destroyer. From the perspective of gamers a Star Destroyer could be insanely fun. The only reasons not to have one has nothing to do with anything FFG should be prioritizing. They worry about making a fun profitable game. If you can argue that Destroyers wouldn't be fun go ahead. But we won't know that until the Tantive hits. If you think aStar Destoyer won't make money you can argue that, but I would say you've missed what makes this game so great. It is only somewhat from the mechanics. Most of it is in the minis and the Star Wars name. And nothing defines the Empire more than a Star Destroyer. Not the Tie Fighters. Not the Death Star. And not Darth Vader. The first you see is that gleaming deathly triangle of doom. And it says everything you need to know about the empire. That's why the game should have a Star Destroyer.

your throwing assumptions around as if they were facts.

for me for example the game is great because the game mechanics and the minis reflect the style and flair of the Star Wars theme in a great way and aren't just an excuse to sell yet another Star Wars themed game and scale is an important part of that equation. I don't presume that everyone has to see it that way, but also it seems that not everyone is sharing your view.

as for money, sure a ISD would sell, will it bring more money than keeping the style and scale - I honestly don't know. But again assuming it will be the best financial strategy is mostly a guess.

All of which is based on your assumption of a Star Destroyers performance. I see no reason one cannot be made to fit the system. Game designers are creative brilliant people. They can and will find a way to make a Star Destroyer Fun. And a Vigil is not perfect. To most people it will look like what it is. An EU Star Destroyer rip off with no context as to what it can do.

You cannot replace the Awe Factor of a Star Destroyer. It cannot be done. Not with a Vigil. That awe can be destroyed if The Destroyer sucks. But all it needs to do is be good for its points. Fluff doesn't matter. It is up to interpretation and arguments can be made about it all day long. If it whips out a ton of attacks and controls the play space it is as close as any game can come to a destroyer. FFG seems to be setting up the big ahips as if they are further from the playspace than regular fighters. Hence them being raised up so high. That gives them a lot of leeway.

as for money, sure a ISD would sell, will it bring more money than keeping the style and scale - I honestly don't know.

Again I can say for a fact, based on posts here and other places. A ship that looks more or less like a ISD, yet is the correct scale and is roughly on par with a CR-90 will sell better then a nerfed ISD will.

Scale matters to people who play this game. That's just a irrefutable fact, it may not matter to some as much as it does to others. But to a lot of people it is very important. I saw a lot of threads by people saying they wouldn't buy A-Wings or at least not many of them because they weren't the proper scale. If people are going to skip over a $15 mini due to scale, they're going to skip over a $150 one due to scale.

Likewise being canon also matters to people who play this game. Star Wars fans have always obsessed over canon, 5 minutes on Google will show just how important it is.

So you offer people 2 ships.

1) A ISD that's 1/10th of the size it should be retaliative to other ships, and 1/10th the firepower it should be.

vs

2) A ISD looking ship, that's the correct size and firepower according to canon.

Tell me, how can anyone reasonably say that option 1 will sell better then option 2.

So... the thought of having a star destroyer is more significant than issues of scale and an accurate depiction of firepower?

One could argue the TIE Fighter is just as iconic to the empire as the Star Destroyers are and it's much better placed here in, well, a starfighter dogfighting game.

If a Star Destroyer is made you know people would buy it simply for the upgrade cards and what the expansion could offer. Sure, yeah, fine. But would it help the game in the long run? Would people be shelling out money because they want to, or because they'd have to?

All of which is based on your assumption of a Star Destroyers performance.

Do you even read other peoples posts? There's no assumption involved in this at all. We all know as a matter of canon fact the performance of a ISD.

And again, your own arguement is the best reason not to make one.. that awe you speak of.. is diminished by shrinking the ship to the size of the CR 90...

And the designers.. they're just like you and me.. gamers that had a good idea, and they are trying to keep it balanced.. which anISD would not be able to do, unless completely neutered of its awesomeness.. obviously

Again, I don't understand how you can't see that, if you are such a fan of the ship, how can you want a unawesome version of it.. it's just ridiculous.

All of which is based on your assumption of a Star Destroyers performance. I see no reason one cannot be made to fit the system. Game designers are creative brilliant people. They can and will find a way to make a Star Destroyer Fun. And a Vigil is not perfect. To most people it will look like what it is. An EU Star Destroyer rip off with no context as to what it can do.

You cannot replace the Awe Factor of a Star Destroyer. It cannot be done. Not with a Vigil. That awe can be destroyed if The Destroyer sucks. But all it needs to do is be good for its points. Fluff doesn't matter. It is up to interpretation and arguments can be made about it all day long. If it whips out a ton of attacks and controls the play space it is as close as any game can come to a destroyer. FFG seems to be setting up the big ahips as if they are further from the playspace than regular fighters. Hence them being raised up so high. That gives them a lot of leeway.

but the awe factor is largely based on its military strength, you know you better get the hell out when one of them appears (the usual strategy in most non fleet encounters with an ISD in any star wars story).

the awe isn't defined by an triangular flying saucer in arbitrary size.

so we agree we should keep the awe factor, right?

Oh it'd sell for sure. But I'd probably be buying it for display, not gaming.

ISDs have their place in a fleet-scale, more abstract game. The dogfighting element would largely be lost though, in favour of a more, eh, naval style of game.

If FFG were to release an ISD, I'd want to see appropriately scaled ships down to corvette size, with regular x wing scale fighters representing squadrons.

Star Destroyers do not act consistantly across the Star Wars Universe. Sometimes they are gigantic superpowerful behemoths. Other time the ships that make them look tiny die to a single collision from an A-Wing. That's why I say fluff doesn't matter. If you want to argue that the fluff affects the gameplay we should flying 350 point lists because that gives us a full flight of X-wings. We don't get that. And we shouldn't because it would make every game 3 hours long.

I have faith in FFG's ability to make a Star Destroyer within the game. It can be done, and they can make it work. If you don't trust FFG then go ahead, but so far they have done an amazing job, and they will continue to do so far into the future.

And the ships military prowess has nothing to do with the awe factor. It's the predatory shape, and the associations from the very first scene in A New Hope.

Star Destroyers do not act consistantly across the Star Wars Universe.

Other time the ships that make them look tiny die to a single collision from an A-Wing.

I have faith in FFG's ability to make a Star Destroyer within the game. It can be done, and they can make it work.

...

And the ships military prowess has nothing to do with the awe factor. It's the predatory shape, and the associations from the very first scene in A New Hope.

which would imply that the ISD can swallow the CR90 whole with the right amount of certain doom, which by the way leads again to relative strength...

We know very little about how the CR 90 will play. All we know is that a Star Destroyer has to be able to take one in a fight. The question of size scale is a moot point as given the scale differences between the Transport and the Tantive, following that size progression, a Star Destroyer will be about 2 or 2 and a half feet long. That's an alllwance that had to be made for the other big ships, it can be made for a Star Destoyer.

My point stands. FFG has earned our trust as far as A Star Destroyer goes. They can make it work. I can imagine it being an amazing thing to play. If I can imagine it the people at FFG can make it at least that well. Their track record suggests they'll make it better.

Star Destroyers do not act consistantly across the Star Wars Universe. Sometimes they are gigantic superpowerful behemoths. Other time the ships that make them look tiny die to a single collision from an A-Wing. That's why I say fluff doesn't matter. If you want to argue that the fluff affects the gameplay we should flying 350 point lists because that gives us a full flight of X-wings. We don't get that. And we shouldn't because it would make every game 3 hours long.

I have faith in FFG's ability to make a Star Destroyer within the game. It can be done, and they can make it work. If you don't trust FFG then go ahead, but so far they have done an amazing job, and they will continue to do so far into the future.

And the ships military prowess has nothing to do with the awe factor. It's the predatory shape, and the associations from the very first scene in A New Hope.

Its military power has little to do with it... I'm amazed you actually said that.. that shows delusion of the facts... the ships ability to bring dozens of fighters to the field, and enough fire power to destroy most ships in the size range of a CR90 is intimidation enough... why do you think the Tantive was fleeing the ship.. it couldn't take it on its own...

Wow... just.. wow... SMH

An ISD could ram a CR90 and not even feel it. It would be like a semi-truck running over someone on a bicycle.

We know very little about how the CR 90 will play. All we know is that a Star Destroyer has to be able to take one in a fight. The question of size scale is a moot point as given the scale differences between the Transport and the Tantive, following that size progression, a Star Destroyer will be about 2 or 2 and a half feet long. That's an alllwance that had to be made for the other big ships, it can be made for a Star Destoyer.

My point stands. FFG has earned our trust as far as A Star Destroyer goes. They can make it work. I can imagine it being an amazing thing to play. If I can imagine it the people at FFG can make it at least that well. Their track record suggests they'll make it better.

No... they lose that trust, when they make an ISD ... at 2 feet, the price point is 200 bucks... I'm NOT paying that.. nor will many others.. at 2 and a half feet.. 250 pr kore in price... never paying that much...

You're dreaming...

An ISD could ram a CR90 and not even feel it. It would be like a semi-truck running over someone on a bicycle.

Didn't an A wing ram an ISD? It felt that!

An ISD could ram a CR90 and not even feel it. It would be like a semi-truck running over someone on a bicycle.

Didn't an A wing ram an ISD? It felt that!

And... didn't a Deathstar ram an SSD?? Everyone felt that!

An ISD could ram a CR90 and not even feel it. It would be like a semi-truck running over someone on a bicycle.

Didn't an A wing ram an ISD? It felt that!

We know very little about how the CR 90 will play. All we know is that a Star Destroyer has to be able to take one in a fight. The question of size scale is a moot point as given the scale differences between the Transport and the Tantive, following that size progression, a Star Destroyer will be about 2 or 2 and a half feet long. That's an alllwance that had to be made for the other big ships, it can be made for a Star Destoyer.

My point stands. FFG has earned our trust as far as A Star Destroyer goes. They can make it work. I can imagine it being an amazing thing to play. If I can imagine it the people at FFG can make it at least that well. Their track record suggests they'll make it better.

I don't think anyone would argue that the GR75 and CR90 are roughly the same size? And a Star Destroyer shouldn't "take one [CR90] in a fight", it should utterly destroy it. The reason the Devestator didn't in ANH is because Lord Vader wanted prisoners. In every other simulation the CR90 couldn't survive that matchup without plot armor.

I'm still not seeing an argument that would really convince me a Star Destroyer is needed over something like, say, a Gozanti cruiser from Star Wars Rebels. Or a Vigil-Class Corvette, or a CR-92a Assassin-variant of the Corvette. Any of these lighter ships would not challenge the scale of the game but be a sufficient counterpart to the Rebellion CR90.

We know very little about how the CR 90 will play. All we know is that a Star Destroyer has to be able to take one in a fight. The question of size scale is a moot point as given the scale differences between the Transport and the Tantive, following that size progression, a Star Destroyer will be about 2 or 2 and a half feet long. That's an alllwance that had to be made for the other big ships, it can be made for a Star Destoyer.

My point stands. FFG has earned our trust as far as A Star Destroyer goes. They can make it work. I can imagine it being an amazing thing to play. If I can imagine it the people at FFG can make it at least that well. Their track record suggests they'll make it better.

I don't think anyone would argue that the GR75 and CR90 are roughly the same size? And a Star Destroyer shouldn't "take one [CR90] in a fight", it should utterly destroy it. The reason the Devestator didn't in ANH is because Lord Vader wanted prisoners. In every other simulation the CR90 couldn't survive that matchup without plot armor.

I'm still not seeing an argument that would really convince me a Star Destroyer is needed over something like, say, a Gozanti cruiser from Star Wars Rebels. Or a Vigil-Class Corvette, or a CR-92a Assassin-variant of the Corvette. Any of these lighter ships would not challenge the scale of the game but be a sufficient counterpart to the Rebellion CR90.

Ok... in a little over 2 and a half hours today I have used up all my 'like' ability. This one was the one that broke the bank.. lol

And I agree... totally destroy a CR90.. why this isn't obvious to some... sigh...

You know... I would love a great model of a SD.. but I wouldn't use it on a game table... it's just not logical to do... and it would destroy the credibility of the game..

Star Destroyers do not act consistantly across the Star Wars Universe. Sometimes they are gigantic superpowerful behemoths. Other time the ships that make them look tiny die to a single collision from an A-Wing. That's why I say fluff doesn't matter. If you want to argue that the fluff affects the gameplay we should flying 350 point lists because that gives us a full flight of X-wings. We don't get that. And we shouldn't because it would make every game 3 hours long.

I have faith in FFG's ability to make a Star Destroyer within the game. It can be done, and they can make it work. If you don't trust FFG then go ahead, but so far they have done an amazing job, and they will continue to do so far into the future.

And the ships military prowess has nothing to do with the awe factor. It's the predatory shape, and the associations from the very first scene in A New Hope.

Its military power has little to do with it... I'm amazed you actually said that.. that shows delusion of the facts... the ships ability to bring dozens of fighters to the field, and enough fire power to destroy most ships in the size range of a CR90 is intimidation enough... why do you think the Tantive was fleeing the ship.. it couldn't take it on its own...

Wow... just.. wow... SMH

And arguments about what ships it can carry are fundamentally flawed. The points we see are what our budget is for the game. Just because your ship can hold other ships does not mean you can have them. Like torpedo slots. You have to pay for what you carry.

An ISD could ram a CR90 and not even feel it. It would be like a semi-truck running over someone on a bicycle.

Head's up. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kamikaze. A CR90 could actually do considerable damage if it did the ramming. A lot of people bring out reasonable points as to why the ISD shouldn't appear, but I'd caution about over emphasizing the firepower and power of the ISD. To put it in perspective the ISD was a medium sized ship in the Star Wars universe. I wouldn;t argue that the CR90 should lose to an ISD or it should be a very one sided fight. I think the righ question to ask is instead how long should a CR90 last? Once you answer this you can figure out how much firepower the ISD should bring to bear to take it out in that amount of time. The issue is that there is very little film canon to go off of as to how long this is as the chase in Ep 4 appears to be mid way through and at the Battle of Endor the CR90's apparently acquitted themselves well.

I still think that a ISD works best when "off camera" with the dogfighting ships representing some of the ISDs complement of star fighters/support craft. It would only be used in Cinematic/ Epic play anyway so while I agree that it would require awesome game breaking stats to really represent what it should be in a normal context, in Epic play it could be toned downsince most missions where it will be used will be capture/contain type scenarios. I do like the ideas presented of a Vigil class ship or similar for gameplay usable miniatute for an Imperial capital ship. Another idea would be to use the current miniatures plus a CR90 equivalent canon Imp capital ship on the table, with a ISD "off camera" for the Empire and a Mon Calmari Cruiser "off camera" for the Rebels. The ships "off camera" could fight each other and give support to the dogfighters.

They can add a ISD in the game as long as I'm able to suicide an A-Wing into it and watch it burn!!!

To address the "don't you trust FFG?" issue, I think it's a red herring. Of course FFG could put together a balanced, fun rules package representing an Imperial opposite number to the CR-90. What the anti-ISD group is saying is that rules package is very different from what you'd get if you looked at the canon descriptions of ISDs and developed a rules package based on them instead.