If I havent got it wrong, I readed in the combat section of the core rulebook that Defense value don't stack: a character just use the higher he has for that kind of attack. I understand this can be considered a balance rule, but it sound not so realistic to me: I mean, a character wearing a Defense 1 armor who take the Defensive Stance maneuver should, in my opinion, definitively gain a Defense 2 rating against melee attacks. The same if he using, for example, a Vibrosword which is good to parry icoming attack. This because I see how both these defensive layers can help in deflecting an incoming attack, one before the other.

I'm going to manage my first true session tomorrow, with a self made adventure, and I'd like to ignore this rule, allowing characters (and PNGs) to stack Defense rating up to a maximum value of 3, if the bonuses cames from different and compatible sources. So, I'd like to know if any of you already did something similar, allowing for the Defense bonus to stack in contrast with what the core rules say.

Thank you very much, may the Force be with you

In this game, you have two modes of protection: Defense and Soak. Soak can be seen as the absorptive quality of your character's armor and his ability to shrug off damage as it comes his way. Defense, on the other hand, is more of a reflective property - it blocks the shots from reaching you at all. Is there a realistic reason for this not to stack? Perhaps. When hiding behind a wall, you're probably not relying on that +1 bonus from your vibrosword to parry attacks.

I would run the game with the rules as written first, just to get a feel for it. The game was balanced with defense not stacking; if you suddenly make it stack, it could significantly change the danger level for your PCs.

Actually, certain types of Defense do stack with one another.

In the case of Guarded Stance, it provides a +1 bonus to melee defense. Same with the Defensive weapon quality (+1 to melee defense) or the Sixth Sense talent (+1 to ranged defense).

Cover and the defense boost from armor are the only two instances of defense that don't stack, as both of them are simply a case of gaining a flat value for the character's defense. Cover is worded (particularly after the errata) as being 'gain ranged defense 1' while armor is 'gain defense 1.' Note the lack of a plus sign or wording that says "increases defense" in both those cases.

So you can have a PC wearing armored clothing or heavy battle armor use a vibro-sword and the guarded stance maneuver to gain a melee defense of 3, since last two cite that they increase the character's Melee Defense. Similar situation with Sixth Sense, allowing for a PC to have a ranged defense of 2 when wearing armor or using cover, as that talent provides an increase to the character's ranged defense, where again armor and cover each provide a flat value for ranged defense.

To draw from Morningfire's reply (Which succinctly sums up how it works), as I get more games under my belt i don't think letting cover and the defense armor stacking would be the end of the world. It feels a bit silly to me that my players in the armored clothing shouldn't seek out cover as it gains them nothing. Add to the fact that the Scoundrel PC with 2 ranks in side step and said Armored clothing still gets tagged quite a bit by 2 green and 1 yellow attack rolls.

If/when the group ever gets to the point where they have 5 ranks of dodge and all have powered armor, I might change my mind back. But even then I doubt it as 5 ranks of dodge/sidestep/whatever is just such a strain tax it would not be 'the one and only answer to solve all combat problems.'

And it also lets talents like Precise Aim get that much more mileage, especially with more than 1 rank.

To draw from Morningfire's reply (Which succinctly sums up how it works), as I get more games under my belt i don't think letting cover and the defense armor stacking would be the end of the world. It feels a bit silly to me that my players in the armored clothing shouldn't seek out cover as it gains them nothing. Add to the fact that the Scoundrel PC with 2 ranks in side step and said Armored clothing still gets tagged quite a bit by 2 green and 1 yellow attack rolls.

If/when the group ever gets to the point where they have 5 ranks of dodge and all have powered armor, I might change my mind back. But even then I doubt it as 5 ranks of dodge/sidestep/whatever is just such a strain tax it would not be 'the one and only answer to solve all combat problems.'

And it also lets talents like Precise Aim get that much more mileage, especially with more than 1 rank.

I'd suggest you take a look at some of the other threads that have discussed this to get a full picture as to why Cover and Armor don't stack and why it actually makes sense that they don't before House Ruling it in. There are mechanical reasons but the more important reason for me is that none of the protagonist in any of the films wear any armor (except Vader). It's to allow Players to have PCs like Luke, Han, and Leia the game not have to wear armor more than Heavy Clothing or it's equivalent to survive combat. Otherwise there is no incentive to not wear armor as those that do will get a significant advantage if you allow them to stack rather than just a small advantage with the RAW. It's about keeping the Star Wars feel from the original trilogy.

Soak represents ballistic protection after you have suffered a successful attack against you. Defense proceeds a successful hit and represents an inability on the attacker's part to locate a good aim point or to hit one and cause damage. I can see why having them stack might be an issue, and not having them stack sort of defies common sense. Sometimes game mechanics and balance have to trump reality.

Donovan...

I guess I'm not reading the rules right, then. On page 206 of the core rulebook, it says that "multiple sources of defense do not stack". I read that to mean that defense from multiple external sources (talents, shields, armor, cover, etc.) don't stack. Should I take it to mean, instead, that they mean categories of Defense, rather than sources? Is it just saying General Defense (the kind that applies to both Melee and Ranged Defense) can't stack with Melee and Ranged Defense?

In other words, if someone has a Vibrosword (+1 Melee Defense), the Defensive Stance talent (+1 Melee Defense), takes Guarded Stance (+1 Melee Defense), Armored Clothing (+1 General Defense), a Personal Deflector Shield (+2 General Defense), Sixth Sense (+1 Ranged Defense), is firing from a trench (+2 Ranged Defense), that the character has 3 ranks of all three types of defense?

Yet General Defense covers both Melee and Ranged, so he could swap out to the more damaging Vibroaxe, take a talent other than Defensive Stance, not worry about taking a guarded stance, never bother taking Sixth Sense, and (when he shoots his pistol rather than swinging his axe) fire from out in the open... and still have the same defense rating, since General Defense is based on the items he's using (the Armored Clothing and the Personal Deflector Shield) provide the same overall effect?

Donovan...

In other words, if someone has a Vibrosword (+1 Melee Defense), the Defensive Stance talent (+1 Melee Defense), takes Guarded Stance (+1 Melee Defense), Armored Clothing (+1 General Defense), a Personal Deflector Shield (+2 General Defense), Sixth Sense (+1 Ranged Defense), is firing from a trench (+2 Ranged Defense), that the character has 3 ranks of all three types of defense?

I think your confusion comes from not delineating the two types of Defense values in EotE. This list does not delineate between a Defense Value and an Added Defense. For example Vibrosword is Added Defense and Firing from a Trench is a set Defense Value (Cover). Once you look at the descriptions of each type of defense it will be come more clear.

I think your confusion comes from not delineating the two types of Defense values in EotE. This list does not delineate between a Defense Value and an Added Defense. For example Vibrosword is Added Defense and Firing from a Trench is a set Defense Value (Cover). Once you look at the descriptions of each type of defense it will be come more clear.

Have the developers (in blogs, podcasts, or errata) offered that kind of delineation? You'd think if such a thing existed, it would be written into the rules in more plain language that didn't require the GMs and players to extrapolate based on language.

In other words, if someone has a Vibrosword (+1 Melee Defense), the Defensive Stance talent (+1 Melee Defense), takes Guarded Stance (+1 Melee Defense), Armored Clothing (+1 General Defense), a Personal Deflector Shield (+2 General Defense), Sixth Sense (+1 Ranged Defense), is firing from a trench (+2 Ranged Defense), that the character has 3 ranks of all three types of defense?

As I understand it:

Vibrosword +1 Melee,

Defensive Stance Talent upgraded difficulty,

Guarded Stance maneuver +1 Melee,

Armoured Clothing 1 general defense,

Personal Deflector Shield 2 general defense

Sixth Sense talent +1 ranged

Firing from Trench, up to +2 ranged (but I have an unerratad core book)

For that list, it would be melee defense Melee defense 4, an upgraded difficulty to be hit, but with 3 strain and a battery running out on the personal deflector shield. Ranged defense would be defense 5 (3 if cover and armour defenses do not stack), but with the battery running out on the shield and with a hampered ability to fire back.

I think your confusion comes from not delineating the two types of Defense values in EotE. This list does not delineate between a Defense Value and an Added Defense. For example Vibrosword is Added Defense and Firing from a Trench is a set Defense Value (Cover). Once you look at the descriptions of each type of defense it will be come more clear.

Have the developers (in blogs, podcasts, or errata) offered that kind of delineation?

On a podcast, I think, though they really should put out a written FAQ.

I think your confusion comes from not delineating the two types of Defense values in EotE. This list does not delineate between a Defense Value and an Added Defense. For example Vibrosword is Added Defense and Firing from a Trench is a set Defense Value (Cover). Once you look at the descriptions of each type of defense it will be come more clear.

Have the developers (in blogs, podcasts, or errata) offered that kind of delineation? You'd think if such a thing existed, it would be written into the rules in more plain language that didn't require the GMs and players to extrapolate based on language.

Yep it wasn't super clear and there has been some clarification, it's buried in the forums somewhere but you will find that the language use in the rules description is important.

There is this from the FAQ that mentions the distinction in the context of cover (second question):

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/StarWarsRPG/edge-of-the-empire/support/SWE02_FAQ_LowRes.pdf

The books aren't clear, but the way Donovan states it makes sense to me. I'm hoping it will be more clearly stated in Age of Rebellion.

The books aren't clear, but the way Donovan states it makes sense to me. I'm hoping it will be more clearly stated in Age of Rebellion.

What Donovan has described is basically what the official response was as far as I can tell.

Has there been erratta for Guarded Stance? The description of this maneuver in the Core Rulebook (Page 201) states that a character "gains melee defence 1", not increases, so it shouldn't stack as far as I can tell.

Personally, I've ignored this little tidbit of errata, because I find any rule that discourages players from making use of their enviornment to be restrictive and unfun. I definitely understand the notion of preserving that "Star Wars" feel, but if you really think about it the characters in the original trilogy aren't wearing armor because they barely have a chance to put any on. (There's also nothing saying that they're not wearing armored clothing, either.) Besides, Setback dice aren't a huge deal and stacking these things isn't unbalancing as long as the bad guys do it too.

All that being said, it's not always proper to wear armor wearever you go. I'm pretty strict about players choosing a "loadout" before they disembark, and if they're carrying all sorts of weapons and armor they WILL run into problems here and there. Permits might not be available for certain gear on certain worlds, and even if they are most bartenders, shopkeepers, and aristocrats are wary of folks in full battle armor carrying an arsenal of weapons. (In other words, Setback dice are added in most social situations.)

I had a similar query a while back.

I seem to recall this issue having been covered over and over again, and the developers have clarified it many times. If it says "sets defence to 1" it doesn't stack (for example wearing armour with defence 1 and getting into cover, which sets defence to 1). If it says "adds 1 defence" or "+1 defence" it stacks with existing defence.