When the headhunters come out you get a pilot that always gets the splash damage from assault misses even when he misses with them. Then you won't see swarms as much

At least it wasn't a swarm of TIE Advanced...that would have been back-breaking.

A Swarm of four TIE Advanceds? That's nothing to be afraid of.

Swarms are my favorite way of flying the Empire (most thematic), because they give me the reliability that a generic interceptor list doesn't have and an effectiveness Bombers achieve only if things fall in their favor. Be prepared to face TIE swarms because at the moment they're one of the best all-round empire lists.

But as a Swarm player there are some things I know that are going to hurt me. Things like:

• The approaching Lt. Blount and his best friend the assault missile.
• Wedge Antillies
• Being forced to shoot at Biggs and ignore better targets
• Bombs
• Autoblasters, which cancel my agility advantage
• Ion cannons mucking up the rest of my manuvers

So the last 3 games I've played against 7 tie swarms I've lost all 3, and in all 3 I only killed one academy tie each time. And they were all played with my best rebel squad!

I hate the swarm sooooo much. You get almost perfect attack rolls thanks to howl, great defense since they are all 3 agility, then later lots of action denial from all the academies getting in your way.

I know some squads are better equipped to take on the swarm than others, and sadly I've come to the conclusion that my squad, as good as it is, is clearly not meant to take on the swarm. Especially when flown well like all my opponents did. I could make a squad that's better for swarms, but then it would likely be weaker for some other squad types, so there's always a trade off.

There's clearly a reason why it's still one of the toughest if not toughest squads to beat still.

I'm starting to feel like ties should have been two hull for how cheap they are. Considering how easy they were to kill in the pc games, they can be stubbornly hard to take down in the miniature game sometimes. Yes you can get lucky and one shot them if you roll all hits and they roll all blanks, but often it's a struggle just to land 1 hit on them.

help me iam drowning in his tears !!!!

dude this game is based on manouvering if ure not good in that then train to get better make crazy moves splitt the swarm etc etc

Though... You Rebels will never win.

We will rebuild another Death Star...

Thermal exhaust port..

***** you!!!

Ok I should mention again that I'm probably not changing this squad at all. As I said it's my best rebel squad, meaning I've won more than I've lost with it. I even went 5-2 with it between two store championships, finishing 5th and 2nd(before final rounds). Both of my losses were to 7 tie swarms.

As people have mentioned, there are counters to them, and if you plan to play competitively you choice is to attempt to build those counters in or hope you don't face them.

Wedge with swarm

Roark with blaster & recon

Blue

Rookie

Ok I should mention again that I'm probably not changing this squad at all.

Some would say that to not change the conditions and expect a different outcome is the definition of insanity. Some would say... LOL

A good player with a bad list can beat a bad player with a good list. The whole game does not consist of list composition alone. Whatever tactics you are or are not using, maybe you should consider making a change to them. But if your opponents are as capable as you stated and they have solid list, your fate may just be in the hands of the dice deities.

Definitely add the advanced sensors to your Bwing also, autoblaster would be an excellent choice also. As a competent swarm player, I have great respect for the autoblaster.

I've taken on several swarms. They're tough, tough, tough, but I actually enjoyed the games. As soon as you start thinning out those fragile-'n-agile egg-shells, the game starts getting more even until you get the upper hand. I like fighting tie swarms! Loads of action, lots of shooting, lots of units crashing and burning...s'pretty fun! I've always found Chewbacca to be a staple in my lists, no matter what I face. If you can get a YT, especially with Anti-persuit lasers, I recommend it. If that's not an option, them 4 ships builds seem to generally seem more productive (or destructive) against swarms and, frankly, most lists.

I have no experience with Y-Wings or HWK's with ion cannons, but as someone said, I'd have thought they'd work well; that 360 firing arc, and I can attest to having used it with the 'ol YT-1300, works wonders to negate one of the TIE's greatest assets; manouverability. Having said that, I'm personally a fan of just blasting to pieces what I'm shooting at, so I dunno.

Assault missiles are guaranteed to make a mess of swarms. Focussing on one target at a time to destroy their numerical advantage, rather than spreading damage across units works very well for me. Splitting their forces and spreading them out is never a bad idea. I like to limit the field of combat so I can't get so easily attacked from all sides or surrounded and it often (not always) helps.

I've never fielded Luke with R2-D2, but I'm really switching off of the classic Biggs W/R2-F2 (I know, sacrilidge it just doesn't work for me) so that may be an effective idea.

The biggest change you need to make is your attitude. Sorry if it sounds confrontational, and I know how frustrating it is to feel like the game's stacked against you, but your track record simply cannot be down to a fault with the game mechanics. Getting defensive and trying to rationalise the tactics that you've said are proven to be wrong, isn't going to help. Think of that first game when you see your opponent's face drop as you get your units and tactics together and pop those egg-shells.

Ok I should mention again that I'm probably not changing this squad at all. As I said it's my best rebel squad, meaning I've won more than I've lost with it. I even went 5-2 with it between two store championships, finishing 5th and 2nd(before final rounds). Both of my losses were to 7 tie swarms.

I will echo AlexW in that you are probably not going to be able to win a tournament of any size with your list. Tourney lists are a different sort of creature, in that you need a consistent game against every squad you come across, not high averages. For example, the "best" list I run by your standard of measure is a 4 TIE/Interceptor list. I have the highest win percentage with that list of any list I can run, but I would never enter it into a tourney expecting to win. The reason is that it is horribly vulnerable to a common list, specifically any list with a named YT (especially if that YT has Gunner). It is almost impossible to play through all 6 or 7 rounds of a tournament and not meet my "nemesis" if I am running Interceptors.

Similarly, it will be almost impossible for you to go to a tourney, play all the way through the top table and not meet a swarm. Having a list that is exceptionally vulnerable to swarms makes it exceedingly unlikely that you will win the whole thing. If I assign some arbitrary numbers, a squad that is 70/30 against the whole field is better in tourney play than one that is 90/10 against everything else, but is 10/90 against the swarm. Those results are exactly what you are describing. If you are going to be vulnerable to something, make sure it is an unusual squad not a tournament staple so your odds of encountering it are low.

If you want to win a tourney, you should consider altering your squad. You will necessarily lose some of your effectiveness against other lists, but you need to improve your ability to deal with swarms if you don't want to keep coming up short on tourney day.

Ok I should mention again that I'm probably not changing this squad at all. As I said it's my best rebel squad, meaning I've won more than I've lost with it. I even went 5-2 with it between two store championships, finishing 5th and 2nd(before final rounds). Both of my losses were to 7 tie swarms.

So swarms should be illegal because you want to fly a squad that has trouble with them. If I were one of your friends all I ever would fly against you was Tie Swarms. This would accomplish one of two things. Either you would learn to beat the swarm with you "best" squad, or you'd find a new best squad. The tournament meta for X-Wing has the Tie swarm as one of the better squads right now. 3 squads you are almost sure to see when participating in an event are Han Shoots First, Biggs walk the Dogs and Tie Swarm. So outside of the Swarm how does you list do Vs the other two?

Having recently only taken one shield off a BH with 5 academies and Howlrunner shooting, 5 of them at range 1, this whole perfect attack roll thing is nonsense. As others have said, although there are lots of powerful and fun Imperial lists, swarms, or a miniswarm with one big ship, seem to be the only consistent performers for the Empire. And the swarm only gets you an easy win when your opponent flies straight at you. Getting them through the asteroid field in a way that maintains some semblance of order takes practice. I've definitely not mastered it yet. Watch videos, lead the Ties on a chase, and learn to use the asteroids to better advantage. Once you do get into the attack, assuming you haven't parked yourself right in front, advance slowly then quickly turn. The 1 straight and 1 bank you have mean that ties will often be forced to fly past you, so that if you can get into a good position you can stay there a lot more easily and force them to lose actions to k-turns or barrel rolls to either get out of your arc or get back in. Or do one turns and just hope they don't get blown up without shooting for a turn.

A Swarm of four TIE Advanceds? That's nothing to be afraid of.

Im going take my time and really go through this post by post. I am not a competitive xwing player, but I played regularly in 40k tournaments throughout 4th and 5th edition, with what was arguably a more competitive scene. So a lot of symptoms seen here applied there too.

Ok I should mention again that I'm probably not changing this squad at all. As I said it's my best rebel squad, meaning I've won more than I've lost with it.

That doesn't mean anything if, as you mentioned, you keep losing to the tie swarm. In the scheme of things, the best tournament lists are ones that can reliably handle any kind of list with a decent chance. If you have a list that can take out 2 archetypes well, but struggle buses against a third type of list, thats not a good squadron. You're a gambler.

So the last 3 games I've played against 7 tie swarms I've lost all 3, and in all 3 I only killed one academy tie each time . And they were all played with my best rebel squad!

I hate the swarm sooooo much. You get almost perfect attack rolls thanks to howl, great defense since they are all 3 agility, then later lots of action denial from all the academies getting in your way.

I know some squads are better equipped to take on the swarm than others, and sadly I've come to the conclusion that my squad, as good as it is, is clearly not meant to take on the swarm . Especially when flown well like all my opponents did. I could make a squad that's better for swarms, but then it would likely be weaker for some other squad types, so there's always a trade off.

There's clearly a reason why it's still one of the toughest if not toughest squads to beat still.

I'm starting to feel like ties should have been two hull for how cheap they are . Considering how easy they were to kill in the pc games, they can be stubbornly hard to take down in the miniature game sometimes. Yes you can get lucky and one shot them if you roll all hits and they roll all blanks, but often it's a struggle just to land 1 hit on them.

You need to be way more patient. Here's how your thought process works.

1-I have a really good rebel squad here, it should be able to beat anything if i play it well.

2-Oh god I lost 3 times to tie swarms.

3-in the games/fluff ties were a lot weaker. maybe its cause theyre broken? maybe my list has a built in weakness to the swarm?

4-absolve self of any fault for losing.

I lost something like 12-15 games straight to a friends chewbacca/2 blue list. Lost to it with my 2x2b list, lost to it with my 3 hero ship list. Finally found a 3b/ORS list that could reliably beat it. Now Im playing that list against tie swarm to make sure I didnt find the 'I win' match up.

You generally lose a game for any combination of 3 reasons.

1-you ****** up. you mis judged an asteroid and flew wedge onto it. or you crashed all your ships into one another, giving you 0 actions on the joust.

2-your opponent hit you with a better list, or one that hard counters what you brought

3-your opponent just outright played better than you. they took a rough gamble, k turning their whole fleet when you didnt see it coming for instance, and you lost. or they just knew how to fly better, and could flawlessly weave between asteroids where you couldnt.

continuing with that theme

Yes it's very odd I only killed 1 ship all 3 times, considering I had 4 rebel ships, all with 3 dice attack, and most of them shooting first each time. I do focus fire as best I can, I think I've always had at least 3 if not all 4 ships shooting at a target.

I tried a different strategy each time and none worked.

First time I took mostly target locks instead of focus, and that didn't work. So second time I did mostly focus thinking I'd have it for defense if nothing else, didn't' work either. So the 3rd time I think I did half and half. That did the best, but still not as good as it should have.

I know dice are brought up a lot as reason for losing. But thats a lame excuse. People who cry about how their dice betrayed them generally dont have a winners mindset, and would have lost anyways. Ive seen people roll spectacularly all game. Taking 10+ 3 attack shots on soontir fell with no damage done, until that time they roll 2 blanks and an eyeball. "MUH DICE FAILED ME, IM LOSING BECAUSE OF BAD ROLLS" they cry. This is what happens with 99% of the 'i lost because of bad rolling' complaints.

Why were your 3 different strategies dependent on taking target lock vs focus? Thats a small micro action you make each turn, not a strategy. Patience man, be more patient.

Wedge with swarm

Roark with blaster & recon

Blue

Rookie

No protection of buff on wedge, roark is meh, blue and rookie have no ups. I dont really see how this list handles tie swarm, or many other builds for that matter.

Revamp your list a bit, go play against the tie swarm 10 more times, and report back.

Though... You Rebels will never win.

We will rebuild another Death Star...

Thermal exhaust port..

The Emperor is not forgiving. Those engineers have been dealt with...most severely! Even we know how to learn from our mistakes.

TIE Swarms definitely shouldn't be illegal. There is nothing like the feeling of pure joy you get when you dump a Proton Bomb right smack in the middle of one. It almost matches the look of pure horror on the swarm players face.

The biggest change you need to make is your attitude. Sorry if it sounds confrontational, and I know how frustrating it is to feel like the game's stacked against you, but your track record simply cannot be down to a fault with the game mechanics. Getting defensive and trying to rationalise the tactics that you've said are proven to be wrong, isn't going to help. Think of that first game when you see your opponent's face drop as you get your units and tactics together and pop those egg-shells.

Good luck...and may the Force be with you!!!

Though... You Rebels will never win.We will rebuild another Death Star...

Thermal exhaust port..

Well guess what!? We added Thermal Exhaust Port COVERS!!

And we painted a scarlac on them.

What now, Rebel Scum?!

Also, this thread reminds me of playing Halo 2, back in the day;

If you decide to only use the shotgun (the squad OP is using), cool!

If that's your favorite weapon (squad) to play with, cool!

But if your opponent keeps using the battle rifle (Tie Swarm), you will most likely be crushed every time.

Either change it up, or wait till you get that lucky shot off. But you can't be upset every time he beats you because you CHOSE your own disadvantage.

...you CHOSE your own disadvantage.

This is such a deep statement I need some miners to get to the bottom of it.

Every list you build, you're choosing your own disadvantage...****...

As for attacking Howl. I've heard many of the better players say not to attack her first, since often she has stealth, or a shield upgrade, etc, plus usually in the back so possibly a range 3 bonus, meaning you'll have to spend a lot of attack dice trying to take her down, which you could use to take down a ship or two easier (and before they shoot at you). I obviously had bad luck in that I could only kill 1 ship each game.

I wonder if these are the same people who said you should always take out the Han's escort first even if those are nimble little A-Wings. Howlrunner may be better protected than the ships she is flying with but remember that she makes all of those other TIEs 50% better when they start shooting at you. If a T/F's normal power is 2 then the six non-Howlrunner ships are attacking you with 18 if she is around but ONLY 12 if she's dead which makes killing her almost like killing THREE of the other TIEs. Even if she's further away with added defenses I don't think she'll be three times harder to kill.