XWM is my first tabletop game (and likely my last given my wallet's ongoing trauma) so I'm not as experienced as many others on this forum. I love it and am very happy with it. I've noticed that a lot of the disagreements over balance bring up tournament play and the appropriateness of niche cards. My question is, who do you think XWM is primarily designed for? Obviously tournaments are a big part of this type of gaming and I think it's great that FFG has a product that encourages actual face to face time in a world dominated by the internet/internet gaming. However, tabletop games are already a niche in themselves. Asking every card to be tournament-ready seems to be asking for a little much, especially if most players never make it to them. The forums seem something of a poisoned well anyway since, by definition, people here are much more involved than the average person. I think it should only be fair to judge the game based on who you think the primary target market is. That means, even if some cards are off, it's okay. You could go for both markets but then some compromises must be made I'd imagine.

Lastly, I think accusing FFG of favoring the Rebels, while perhaps emotionally soothing, is ridiculous. FFG isn't actually committed to an intergalactic war you realize... I actually think they're in a bit of a tough spot. The Rebels were a rag tag unit and so very diverse. The Empire was a monolithic force of endless ships of the same design. Coming up with unique Rebel material is much easier. You never even see a TIE pilot take his helmet off in the OT. So I can see them milking all the Rebel stuff -- especially for SW fans. We're notorious for being obsessed with cannon accuracy, get into debates about how big an A-wing is, and are using math formulas to decipher states for crying out loud. I can see them sticking with all the known material -- material that is predominantly Rebel -- before starting to invent stuff for the Imperials. Remember the Team Covenant interview? Half of it was the designers talking about the pressure to be accurate to the movies. Seems it would be easier to work with what's there and then slowly bring in those items they'll invariably have to exercise some creativity on. So I'm sure the Imperials are being treated fairly. Remember:

Always in motion the future is.

I think you make some fair observations. However, I think it is also fair to note that balancing the game around high-level play (ie, tournaments) is unlikely to negatively impact casual play, while balancing around casual play would likely lead to problems in high-level play.

You could go for both markets but then some compromises must be made I'd imagine.

Typically the casual market is almost by definition easier to please, where as the competitive types aren't. That doesn't mean there's no room for fluff or subpar cards/powers/upgrades/ect... just that when designing the game, if you aim for the level of balance needed for the Tourney types, the casual players will be happy too.

If you aim for the casual style however the tourney types will not be happy most of the time.

As far as the factions go. It's sort of the same thing. If they make one faction better/stronger that hurts the competitive field, so it's in their best interest to keep things balanced. Casual players aren't going to complain if both sides are balanced.

I think you make some fair observations. However, I think it is also fair to note that balancing the game around high-level play (ie, tournaments) is unlikely to negatively impact casual play, while balancing around casual play would likely lead to problems in high-level play.

As someone who has worked in the gaming industry as a professional for many years, this is entirely correct. As long as game balance doesn't interfere with the ultimate goal of the game which is having fun. Design and balance should go hand in hand for the best end product. And the best part, it does not affect casual players at all because they won't even notice.

I'm a pure Min/maxr, so I only focus on tourney lists.

The games fine, The releases are fine, the balance is fine, Casual or Tournament play is fine, Cost is fine, ****, Im fine.

Its the keyboard crusaders whose Overly loud Opinions / complaints flood threads make people think there is something wrong with a perfectly fine game.

I find the Internet ruins games for people, Because we get such a wide range of feedback, Or a very narrow one.

As said above a game focused on balance and tournament play is a fun game for all. Play at your discretion.

I find that with this game people are not over aggressive or rude. Everyones just happy to be there to be playing a game that they love. They don't care if they lose every game or roll horribly all they care about is when they get to play next. And if your not like that then this game isn't for you.

I'm a pure Min/maxr, so I only focus on tourney lists.

The OP was talking about what FFG or other game companies do, not how people design their lists.

As far as the factions go. It's sort of the same thing. If they make one faction better/stronger that hurts the competitive field, so it's in their best interest to keep things balanced. Casual players aren't going to complain if both sides are balanced.

Here I would actually disagree. It may depend on how one side is "stronger" but I believe the casual player would be less happy if one faction is much stronger than the other. For the tournament player he just plays the strong faction and when matches are Blue on Blue so be it but the casual player is more likely to keep thing Rebel vs. Imperials which means if one side is actually stronger it is seen as unfair.

We might say Rebels are stronger right now but that is probably because they have more options and more of those options are middle of the road and also can be used more interchangeably. Admittedly they play different but when a Blue, Rookie, and Gold w/ Ion Turret all cost nearly the same there is a lot more build freedom compared to the Imperials whose ship costs are all over the place. It may not help that on a ship to ship comparison the rebels often come out on top if you fail to consider the base cost of the ships.

If you say "design for the tournament player" I can get behind that although it leaves room for niche things which may not see serious tournament play be which can be fun in more casual play. There are almost no cases were I would want to run Autoblasters in a tournament but in a "casual" game where I know I'll be running into a lot of Stealthy TIEs I may just give it a go.

The place I say tournament vs. casual will go astray is when we start getting things that only interest one kind of player. In MtG they may design many cards for a less formal kind of play but there are some that are specifically for tournament constructed decks that may be next to useless in a casual game that can't make use of them for various reasons.

FFG is doing it right. They appear to be designing with balance in mind (however much people tend to overreact to press releases and speculation) while focusing on keeping even competitive play sportsmanlike and fun. This tremendously refreshing versus, say, Privateer Press, who are friendly, but can't do tournaments right at all, and Games Workshop that loathes and abuses its customers to the point the veterans leave the game with each new generation.

You aim for tourney balance. Casuals will make up there own rules and don't dive into the meta like serious players would. Casuals are important but a game like this has to be built for high lvl play in mind.

Casuals simply value fun over balance. Which is generally easier to accomplish.

I'm what could be be called a Very Dedicated Casual Player. I like accurate. I like competitive. I like balance. However, I'm not going to get rabid over doing a micro-examination of each card and how it inter-relates to every other card that exists. I don't live anywhere near where a tournament would be held (other than possibly Toronto but that's still a good two-hour drive each way). I do get excited over new releases and how it will fit into the style of play that I like to enjoy. I play first for fun, and if I can win while doing it... great. However, I'm not just into it because I must win.

My belief, if I was doing this as a business venture, would be to find that balance which I think FFG is doing very well. They know that the hard-core tournament players will buy loads of stuff, and especially multiples of "good" ships, to have a well-equipped cache to pick their forces from. However, these will be the players that will doggedly examine everything and find the best combination. These players constitute a small but respectible percentage of the gaming market, but they don't dominate it in sheer number of people. However, these hard-cores will be the ones that will play at the FLGS, and especially the tournaments, and be the focal point for the casual players to take notice of and buy the game there. The hard-cores are the ones that populate the message boards here and elsewhere online and can break out entire multi-linked Excel spreadsheets to show why the newest upgrade card is OP or a waste of time in their view.

The casual player, however, will probably buy the core game and maybe a few extra ships (and probably just one of each) and have a small collection at the end of it. These will also be the "friend" of the tournament player that will buy a few of their own ships just to have. These will also be the people that would buy the game as a gift for their relative that likes Star Wars, and they'd probably by it from Amazon, Wal-Mart or Barnes and Noble or whatever their local shop is but they may not even have a FLGS that they typically go to. These are the people that ask questions on the rules forum that have already been answered in the FAQ.

FFG knows that every single thing they do will be examined to minute detail by the tournament crowd (ie: us). I think they're doing a good job thus far of:

• keeping the excitement level up, which helps generate pre-orders to the retail chain
• keeping the game relatively balanced, in spite of what the doom-sayers on here want everyone else to believe
• keeping the mythos fairly accurate, while making some minor changes to ensure that product will sell

At the end of the day, they're a business and ultimately every decision will come down to how much will it cost to produce, and how much revenue will it generate immediately and over time, and will it end up being almost a one-shot product or will it have an enduring shelf life.

I try to make probable lists.. ones I can have a story of how they fit together, so nothing too random just to make a 'winning' list. List building and tournament planning is a major subject for most games these days, which is a bit sad if people forget to HAVE FUN at the same time.

My fave list at the moment is Carnor Jax in a Royal guard interceptor and 4 TIEs (Mithell, 2 black squadron, 1 accademy pilot). I imagine Jax on a mission and has drafted a Local TIE wing in to help. It seems competitive enough to challenge people whilst pleasing me visually and fluff wise.

I would say I was a casual player but like many like minded players I have to up my game a bit so I don't get obliterated by guys who have put weeks of research and play testing into a tournament list and will by a $40 model just to get the card they need.

FFG's target market is most likely casual players. To start there are more of them then the hardcore tournament players, and this is a game based on a fictional universe that anybody who is buying this game and playing it often, is probably in love with. Because tournament players primary goal is probably not to simply be their favorite pilots and ships, but to just focus on a list or lists they think is the best, and there are few of them, it makes no sense to market for tournament players primarily. I'm not saying those of you who go to tournaments love the fictional aspect of the game ay less, I'm just saying that most people playing the game (casual players), are there for the feeling of being their favorite pilots and ships, not just to win and therefore FFG will make the game more for them.

I just like to go with the flow; I'll fly what I want to fly. I don't own any B's, and am not a great MathWing-er!

I ran Kath + goodies with 4x Obsidians for the store championships on the weekend and went 4-1. If you've made it, and you know it well, anything will work in X-Wing