Hello, this may seem like a very obvious question, but what is a good number to shoot for when it comes to the number of players? I generally try to aim for 4-6, but I was wondering what experience other people have had.

Also, when you have 3-4 players, what roles should you try to encourage them to play, besides the Rogue Trader of course. Do i even need to worry about it?

Great question.

RT is one of the systems that is designed for larger groups because of all the unique roles. Generally speaking, 4 is the minimum, with 7 being entirely possible, but can be difficult to manage. IMO, 5-6 is the sweet spot as it ensures that all the key roles are covered by players and, between them, someone will have whatever important skill/strength needed for problem solving.

As for which careers to take... here is a tiered list I've compiled regarding importance to the game:

Note: The Rogue Trader is not on the list because you always have to have one.

Must Have

Explorator

Navigator

Nice to Have

Void-Master

Arch-Militant

Seneschal

Unnecessary

Missionary

Astropath

Any Xenos

Hello, this may seem like a very obvious question, but what is a good number to shoot for when it comes to the number of players? I generally try to aim for 4-6, but I was wondering what experience other people have had.

Also, when you have 3-4 players, what roles should you try to encourage them to play, besides the Rogue Trader of course. Do i even need to worry about it?

I currently run 2 groups. one has 6 players, the other has 2. Both work.

As for roles... this may be an artifact of how I run stories, but what roles the players take on affect the story. I try to let them showcase what they are good at - and what they are bad at.

Now this may be heresy, but I'd say not to worry too much.

The Rogue Trader isn't strictly necessary, but is the one role I'd really advice having someone fill.

If no-one wants it, you may need to think a fair bit about why this is so. Perhaps there's an NPC Rogue Trader who lives up to all the worst ideas of inbred aristocracy? He's arrogant and demanding, but fortunatly also stupid and can be lead around by the nose by clever PCs?

As I recall, there are a few thread on the forum about what to do if no-one wants to play the RT.

As for the rest, I agree with Traejun that you don't need a Xenos of any description - I'd even advice against permitting one, if you (or the player) is new to RT/40KRPGs.

The AStropath can be handled fairly easily as an NPC - most ships have an astropathic choir, but then, many astropaths are little more than radios on legs.

Similarly, the navigator can (in my experience) be handled in much the same way. Warp travel will become GM fiat, but it pretty much is anyway. Maybe roll a few dice to see if the trip is really fast or really bad. I ended up writing a script to roll the dice for the warp travel as described in the core book - be sure to check the errata on that by the way.

Other than the Rogue Trader, the role I'd least like to travel without is probably a senechal - he does many of the same things as the RT I suppose, but is a great role for interacting with the RT. Most of the really good roleplaying I've seen in Rogue Trader have been the game between these 2 characters.

In the right group, that purpose could be covered by the Missionary instead I suppose.

The Senechal also gets Tech Use at rank 2, meaning that while an Explorator is noce to have, he suddently becomes much less necessary.

If you plan on having ship-to-ship combat, voidmasters are simply awesome. Yes, in plural.

In general I guess I'm trying to explain that it's not so much what roles are necessary, as what roles you (as a group and as a GM) make necessary.

Must Have

Explorator

Navigator

TBH i don't think these two are must haves. They can be delegated to be regular NPCs without even coming up. Every PC is something special, somebody who is in the Inner Circle of the RT (heck, not even the RT is necessary) or a important associate with special importance to the RT.

If no one wants to play a Navigator, well then he's just the guy steering the ship.

And if no one wants to play a RT (i'd recommend it, as its very nice to have), you can easily play a sister ship of a Dynasty.

A nice setup would be the one from Homeworld: Cataclysm, where the Dynasty is something akin to the Kiith Somtaaw and they only have two ships, one more adjusted to exploration, the other focused on mining operations, basically building the backbone of the Dynasty. Yeah you're playing second fiddle, but one could easily start stories here how they grow in importance to the Dynasty and grow out of their role because they stumble upon stuff or get conscripted into a fight because some Admiral demands it etc.

In my current (and another past) campaign, I've had 4 players. Each person plays 2 characters, and this is how it works. They can only play 1 at a time. They can alternate rather freely. There is a main character, and that character needn't be the one most often played, but is the one with the most authority in the campaign setting.

In my current campaign, one player has both the Rogue Trader and the Rogue Trader's sibling, the Seneschal. This player has played his secondary character the least of all the players. Still, the Seneschal is there as a back-up for any duty or mission the Rogue Trader cannot be spared on, or isn't as well qualified for. The player has often talked of leaving the Seneschal at the Dynasty's holdings in Footfallen to administer the burgeoning empire from that location.

Another player plays the Explorator and the Arch-Militant. He plays the Explorator most of the time when the scene is ship-side (though sometimes not in ship combat when the role changes constantly), and the Arch-Militant in landing parties. The Arch-Militant is a Skitarii Tribune, almost constantly under upgrade.

Yet another player is the ship's Navigator and the chief Astropath. She also does a lot of switching back and forth. Usually, the Navigator is played ship-side (except in combat because the Astropath is usually the augur operator), and the Astropath does landing party duty.

The last player has the Missionary and a Void Master. The Missionary is usually in landing parties and the Void Master takes part in ship-space combat.

The Rogue Trader, Explorator, Navigator, and Missionary are the main roles. Their back stories tend to drive the plots. The other characters sometimes get played more often, though, except in the case of the RT-Seneschal (and that might just be the player).

Our campaign is going through growing pains because they now have multiple ships and haven't decided how to operate. They gelled really well as a team on a single ship and yet they want a PC aboard every ship. It's getting interesting.

How many people you need is really a matter of how you like to run things and how organized you are. Most people don't like to run more than 6-7 people in a game, but RT is a game that can accommodate many more. I could conceive of a game with everyone playing a Rogue Trader, all in the same Dynasty, all getting their own ship as the fortunes of the Dynasty expand.

Then again, I really like having Navigators in the game, because I love the expanded Warp rules. I like the inherent dangers of the Warp, or at least the way our Navigator keeps everyone on the edge of their seats by the way she plays. They have a very detailed ship's log and star charts they have drawn themselves based on their adventures, and it dominates the game-play. I know many people out there seem to have the same experience with the Explorator role. Tech drives many campaigns, and that's okay, too. It all depends on what makes the players most interested.

Must Have

Explorator

Navigator

TBH i don't think these two are must haves. They can be delegated to be regular NPCs without even coming up. Every PC is something special, somebody who is in the Inner Circle of the RT (heck, not even the RT is necessary) or a important associate with special importance to the RT.

If no one wants to play a Navigator, well then he's just the guy steering the ship.

And if no one wants to play a RT (i'd recommend it, as its very nice to have), you can easily play a sister ship of a Dynasty.

A nice setup would be the one from Homeworld: Cataclysm, where the Dynasty is something akin to the Kiith Somtaaw and they only have two ships, one more adjusted to exploration, the other focused on mining operations, basically building the backbone of the Dynasty. Yeah you're playing second fiddle, but one could easily start stories here how they grow in importance to the Dynasty and grow out of their role because they stumble upon stuff or get conscripted into a fight because some Admiral demands it etc.

I trend towards the school of thought that an NPC shouldn't be as good as a PC. With that in mind, a not as good as PC navigator can end up being a serious pain for the group. That is really why I place the Navi in the top tier. Same for Explorator, really.

You can always upgrade to a Good/Best Craftmanship Navigator

As others said, if no player wants to play a Navi, the GM can wing all the rolls.

I trend towards the school of thought that an NPC shouldn't be as good as a PC. With that in mind, a not as good as PC navigator can end up being a serious pain for the group. That is really why I place the Navi in the top tier. Same for Explorator, really.

But if there's no PC navigator, that's nonsense.

The navigator's role is rather unique (and limited anough that I wouldn't want to force it on anyone).

"NPCshouldn't be as good as a PC" makes no sense when there's literaly no PC to compete with!

I trend towards the school of thought that an NPC shouldn't be as good as a PC. With that in mind, a not as good as PC navigator can end up being a serious pain for the group. That is really why I place the Navi in the top tier. Same for Explorator, really.

But if there's no PC navigator, that's nonsense.

The navigator's role is rather unique (and limited anough that I wouldn't want to force it on anyone).

"NPCshouldn't be as good as a PC" makes no sense when there's literaly no PC to compete with!

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

which is a perfectly valid result after all

I have six-and-a-half players in my Dark Heresy campaign (the 'half' is one of my players' 9-year-old son, who occasionally runs a tag-along npc), and I find that this results in more situations where not everyone can be involved than I would prefer- and our combats take a loooong time. I would say that 4 players is probably ideal, in my opinion...

I have six-and-a-half players in my Dark Heresy campaign (the 'half' is one of my players' 9-year-old son, who occasionally runs a tag-along npc), and I find that this results in more situations where not everyone can be involved than I would prefer- and our combats take a loooong time. I would say that 4 players is probably ideal, in my opinion...

Agreed

I find that with anymore then four you get a lot of distraction happening as well, where two (or more) players will start talking about something random, as they get bored of not being involved.

To me it seems that any and all classes are optional. I’m not saying I’d jump at the chance to play a game where the five players are all playing astropaths but assuming the group had diversity it shouldn’t be a problem. It could even be fun.

Perhaps the rogue trader is an inscrutable individual who hasn’t been seen in years, all orders come from speakers or are hand delivered by servitors. The players may question who is really in charge but as long as profits are good and they operate within the mandate of the warrant (admittedly a broad mandate in the expanse) then perhaps eccentricities are acceptable.

For a navigator I’d push things back on the player assuming that the Navigator will always get the ship where it needs to go but the amount of trouble they have in the warp is a function of ship’s morale and piety so if you don’t want a demonic breach then perhaps you should be doing something for the ship and crew while you wait for the NPC navigator to be ready.

Explorator almost seems like it would be more fun to have as an NPC. Imagine the shenanigans they could get up to making the players jump through hoops to obtain the blessing of the machine god before the sunsear batteries can be installed. I suppose I’d work it similarly to the navigator in I’d assume the Explorator had the technical ability to do most of what the players needed/requested but he lacked the initiative to do much on his own and he would generally require input from the players before he could complete anything more than trivial tasks.

Seneschal would be another that it’d be fun to NPC, especially if you could pull off something like Varys or Petyr Baelish from the Song of Ice and Fire.

Arch-Militants are arguably the most replaceable member of the PC line-up. I actually enjoy the idea describing the Arch-Militant differently every game session with a similar but subtly different looking appearance every time so that the players can never be sure if it the same person who enjoys changing their appearance frequently or a team of related individuals who have some sort of roster.

Astropaths, Void Masters and Missionaries all fit in the realms of useful but don’t really ever have to leave the ship, admittedly neither does the Navigator but they’re a little more involved in getting around than anyone else.

Number of players, I’ve gone as high as five in house with another four connecting over the Internet. It worked but it was a struggle. Four seems to be optimum for player involvement.

RT is also not necessary from a fluff standpoint. After all, the holder of the warrant is the next guy in the line of succession, pretty much regardless of background (class in mechanical terms) AFAIK. After all, weren't there some Imperial Guard high-ranking officers made RT at some point?

After all, weren't there some Imperial Guard high-ranking officers made RT at some point?

This appears to be the standard procedure for any figure popular with the people who looks like they might pose a political threat, yet is also too inconvenient to just assassinate. Also there's cases like Lord Bastille where a Dynasty purchases an Imperial Guard/Navy commission for some heir way down in the inheritance schema, who then gets the Warrant when everyone else dies.

For my campaign I feel that every role is "represented" on the ship, but if you've left a role to an NPC then they're not going to be amazing - amazing stuff is reserved for PCs.

Slightly related to my OP, but how have people handled not having a RT? I realise it's completely doable, but I was wondering how people handled it, and how they made sure that the players still felt like they were in control of where the ship went and what they did.

We were prepared to start our campaign without a RT. If you have a Seneschal then it isn't too difficult. You are "empowered" by your Rogue Trader to go and do his bidding, and you are trying to turn the one ship he has generously purchased for you and are trying to earn as much profit factor as possible to advance in his Dynasty.

The other idea that I had floating around was that the Rogue Trader would be like Prince George from Black Adder, where the results of dozens of generations of hereditary inheritance have produced a foppish, easily manipulated twit who the crew would run circles around, convincing him that their latest quest was his idea.

Slightly related to my OP, but how have people handled not having a RT? I realise it's completely doable, but I was wondering how people handled it, and how they made sure that the players still felt like they were in control of where the ship went and what they did.

You mean not having a character with the RT class, or not having the warrant holder be a PC?

If it's the former, simple: just give the warrant to somebody of another class. After all, if you're next in line of succession you would be getting the warrant anyway, regardless of class.

If it's the latter, never tried it, but I'd run it similar to the Dark Heresy (players are working FOR the RT which pops in occasionally rather than WITH the RT). I suppose it would work best with one of the Dynasty's smaller ships as opposed to the RT's own ship.

We were prepared to start our campaign without a RT. If you have a Seneschal then it isn't too difficult. You are "empowered" by your Rogue Trader to go and do his bidding, and you are trying to turn the one ship he has generously purchased for you and are trying to earn as much profit factor as possible to advance in his Dynasty.

The other idea that I had floating around was that the Rogue Trader would be like Prince George from Black Adder, where the results of dozens of generations of hereditary inheritance have produced a foppish, easily manipulated twit who the crew would run circles around, convincing him that their latest quest was his idea.

Well, the black adder thing would be kind of funny. If I went down that path, I'd likely play him like the RT Safari junkie in the Koronus Bestiary.

Another option I was considering, in addition to the ones people have given me, was having them just pretend to have a warrant of trade. It's not like many rogue traders carry these ridiculously valuable documents with them just to have their dynasty destroyed when they get hit by a stray melta blast or a Rak'Gol ship gets a lucky hit on the plasma drive. And I have to imagine that all but the most dedicated and bored inquisitors would give up on trying to verify if their family had one.