So a situation came up yesterday while playing.

Our stalker had placed a trap on a map tile where the OL placed reinforcements.

To trigger the trap a monster has to enter a space adjacent to it.

The player argued that the trap should be triggered by reinforcements, the OL argued that reinforcements doesnt really enter spaces, they are "Placed" in the space.

We agreed that since the wording in the rules are "Placed" that they do not count as having entered that space, is this correct or not?

Our geomancer also pointed out that his teleport skill has the wording "Place" in it, would the geomancer not count as having entered a space he teleports to?

Any time anything, whether it be a figure or a familiar or what have you is put into a space in which it previously was not, it is entering that space.

Any time anything, whether it be a figure or a familiar or what have you is put into a space in which it previously was not, it is entering that space.

Do the rules really state this?

Does this then also count for heroes performing a stand up action? Can I drop a Web trap on a hero after someone had used a pick up action? It is basically the same thing after all.

Any time anything, whether it be a figure or a familiar or what have you is put into a space in which it previously was not, it is entering that space.

Do the rules really state this?

Does this then also count for heroes performing a stand up action? Can I drop a Web trap on a hero after someone had used a pick up action? It is basically the same thing after all.

No, because in those scenarios they would be on the same space. The scenario where a hero stands up when occupied by an monster and must stand up on a different space is a bit more interesting though and I don't think it is explained in the rules clearly.

I would still tend to say it doesn't because the rulebook refers to the player getting 'placed' on the nearest space. This also makes sense as the hero would be considered to be placed in the knocked out state and then is replaced with their figure on the same space. I believe this is true for reinforcements as well - they are being 'placed' not entering a space.

Maybe that sentance should be re-jigged to:

Any time anything, whether it be a figure or a familiar or what have you that is currently on a space and is not knocked out, is put into a space in which it previously was not, it is entering that space

This is probably a good question for FFG via the Rules Questions link.

Possible scenarios where this occurs and would be vague:

Monster Reinforcement

Hero Stand Up / Revive actions

Monster abilities like Split, Undying, etc.

Rfisha it seems we share the same thoughts on the matter in particular when it comes to the "placed" aspect. Though I personally think that if a hero is standing up in the same place or getting put in a different spot does not make any difference, in both cases the hero is off the board and then gets placed on the board.

Maybe that sentance should be re-jigged to:

Any time anything, whether it be a figure or a familiar or what have you that is currently on a space and is not knocked out, is put into a space in which it previously was not, it is entering that space

I have to disagree with even that sentence. The FAQ on rules for large monster movement, for example, explicitly state that the monster only enters the space that is used to count movement, not any of the spaces it expands into.

And knocked out heroes aren't on the map, so whatever space they stand up in is a "new space." However, some overlord traps specify movement "from an adjacent space."

Maybe that sentance should be re-jigged to:

Any time anything, whether it be a figure or a familiar or what have you that is currently on a space and is not knocked out, is put into a space in which it previously was not, it is entering that space

I have to disagree with even that sentence. The FAQ on rules for large monster movement, for example, explicitly state that the monster only enters the space that is used to count movement, not any of the spaces it expands into.

And knocked out heroes aren't on the map, so whatever space they stand up in is a "new space." However, some overlord traps specify movement "from an adjacent space."

Yeah you're right, I just simply tacked those points onto his sentence. I suppose where I was coming from is that standing up is not entering a space, they are being placed (it is pretty clear in the rulebook). Reinforcements are also placed.

Good call with the expanding monster clarification as well. I think this definitely something that FFG should define clearly rather than my sub-par attempt!

Rfisha it seems we share the same thoughts on the matter in particular when it comes to the "placed" aspect. Though I personally think that if a hero is standing up in the same place or getting put in a different spot does not make any difference, in both cases the hero is off the board and then gets placed on the board.

Completely agree, my response wasn't well worded. I should probably go back to English class rather than spend my time playing Descent!

Good call with the expanding monster clarification as well. I think this definitely something that FFG should define clearly rather than my sub-par attempt!

I agree. As it is now, you can move a massive creature and have it expand over a stalker's trap, and you wouldn't be setting off the trap because the monster ended its movement two spaces away, not adjacent. Its a very wierd board state.

If memory serves, FFG has made rulings in the past about large monsters expanding and KO'd figures standing up don't count as "entering a space." I don't recall any other cases being ruled explicitly, though.

In general, I'm inclined to agree with Whitewing that any time a figure (or token) has been set inside the boundaries of a space that it was not previously inside, it has entered that space. Barring official rulings on specific cases from FFG, as above.

In other words, I believe that "placing" a figure is still "entering the space," generally speaking. The difference is that "placing" a figure doesn't involve Move Actions and, more often than not, allows the figure to show up several spaces away without having entered the spaces in between where it was and where it now is. The final space it lands in is still "entered" though.

Again, barring FFG rulings on specific cases. I don't believe FFG has provided any kind of general ruling about "placing" figures being excluded from "entering the space."

Might this one not be worth asking for official rule clarification? Has anyone already contacted FFG on this? Would anyone care to do so.

I'd appreciate a general clarification on the related topics of: entering spaces and movement (apart from actions or using exhaustion)

If someone hasnt already adressed this to FFG I guess I could do that, as long as someone can enlighten me as to what the proper way to do so would be

You just have to hit the rules question link (real small) at the bottom of this page

You just have to hit the rules question link (real small) at the bottom of this page

Cheers, cant believe I missed that one

I have sent them the question, will let you guys know their answer when I get it.

If memory serves, FFG has made rulings in the past about large monsters expanding and KO'd figures standing up don't count as "entering a space." I don't recall any other cases being ruled explicitly, though.

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In other words, I believe that "placing" a figure is still "entering the space," generally speaking. The difference is that "placing" a figure doesn't involve Move Actions and, more often than not, allows the figure to show up several spaces away without having entered the spaces in between where it was and where it now is. The final space it lands in is still "entered" though.

Agreed. I'm fairly certain that FFG has stated that expanding doesn't count as entering, and "placing" does. I'm not sure about heroes being revived / standing up, monster reinforcement, or monster abilities like split and undying, though.

If memory serves, FFG has made rulings in the past about large monsters expanding and KO'd figures standing up don't count as "entering a space." I don't recall any other cases being ruled explicitly, though.

...

In other words, I believe that "placing" a figure is still "entering the space," generally speaking. The difference is that "placing" a figure doesn't involve Move Actions and, more often than not, allows the figure to show up several spaces away without having entered the spaces in between where it was and where it now is. The final space it lands in is still "entered" though.

Agreed. I'm fairly certain that FFG has stated that expanding doesn't count as entering, and "placing" does. I'm not sure about heroes being revived / standing up, monster reinforcement, or monster abilities like split and undying, though.

What about an ettin's throw ability to add it to the mix?

Etins throw says that the hero gets placed, it also says it counts as entering that place. So tomble turns into an awesome web trap bomb.

This just further confuses the issue though! If it needs to be clarified on the card, yet other times it says place it is not clarified it would make one believe that it only counts as entering the space when they actually clarify it... The lack of clear rules is probably the one thing i dislike about this game the most.

This just further confuses the issue though! If it needs to be clarified on the card, yet other times it says place it is not clarified it would make one believe that it only counts as entering the space when they actually clarify it... The lack of clear rules is probably the one thing i dislike about this game the most.

That's actually something that FFG does a lot, I've noticed: they add text to clarify a point on one card, which ends up confusing everyone about whether or not the same applies to other similar cards that don't have the clarification.

The answer is usually that the same does apply to all cards that use similar language. Although I agree it would help if they could tighten up the formal game mechanical definitions for things and just let technical terms stand on their own, without extra clarification.

Generally speaking, if something isn't specifically spelled out for you, you need to take it literally. In this case, entering a square would literally mean moving into a square that you previously had not been in, so that's really the only thing you can go off of.

Hey guys, I just got a reply from Nathan from FFG regarding this.

" It’s hard to give a umbrella rule for this, but a good rule of thumb is that if the figure was already on the map when it is placed/moved into a new space, that figure is entering that space. If you are not moving the figure from one space to another, but placing a figure that was not on the map, that figure is not entering that space.

I like this ruling! its nice to have a good rule of thumb to play by - thanks for contacting and sharing it with us

Would have been easier if they'd just defined "entering a space" in the rules, but that'll do alright. Thanks for sharing.

Would have been easier if they'd just defined "entering a space" in the rules, but that'll do alright. Thanks for sharing.

I agree this game needs a dictionary of terms of some sort

Would have been easier if they'd just defined "entering a space" in the rules, but that'll do alright. Thanks for sharing.

I agree this game needs a dictionary of terms of some sort

Yes.