So, we talk about all the things that are wrong about the Advanced. Let's start playtesting some ideas to fix it! My idea is to make the Advanced a bit more like the HWK. It should be a ship that makes a squad better because it is around. Here are my ideas:

Storm Leader (28): SP 8 - At the start of the combat phase you may choose a ship at Range 1-2 and add (standard hit) to their next attack. Then you cannot attack this round.

Tempest Leader (25): SP6 - At the start of the combat phase, you may assign one of your evade tokens to a friendly ship at Range 1-2.

Advanced x2 Missile (0): [Advanced Only] Your upgrade bar gains (Systems) [This fills your Missile slot to gain a System]

Advanced x2 Laser upgrade Missile (2): [Advanced Only] Add 1 attack die to all primary weapon attacks

Combat Computer System (3): When you perform an evade action, assign one additional evade token to your ship.

Here's where the forum comes in. Try this at home. Does it work? Does anything (like cost) need to be adjusted? For a good aces pack we need at least one more named pilot and maybe a special missile. Post your ideas and your play test findings here. Who knows, we might get the attention of FFG!

Thank you in Advanced for your help.

Although fun to spitball, there's zero chance they use anything from the forums. They don't even accept unsolicited game concepts/ideas as a company.

Although fun to spitball, there's zero chance they use anything from the forums. They don't even accept unsolicited game concepts/ideas as a company.

For legal reasons, I understand this. If that is their policy, no one can sue. Even if it's just spitballing, this should be fun...

I like the general idea. Unfortunately I am not really in a position to actually Playtest any of these ideas. I do fear that the computer system would be too powerful, guaranteed 2 evade tokens each turn would make a ship REALLY hard to damage, although I love the idea in principle. BTW, us it a system upgrade? A modification? What?

I like the general idea. Unfortunately I am not really in a position to actually Playtest any of these ideas. I do fear that the computer system would be too powerful, guaranteed 2 evade tokens each turn would make a ship REALLY hard to damage, although I love the idea in principle. BTW, us it a system upgrade? A modification? What?

It is a Systems upgrade, which can now be used along with my proposed Title card.

I do think they watch forums and use it to brainstorm ideas.

Advanced x2 Title (0): Your upgrade bar gains (Systems)

You could do something with a unique title making the squad leader option free (or even giving them EPS slot with a 2 point discount on unique EPSes. Would feel fitting and you can include some unique EPSes in the advanced Aces.

Good idea PS10. I changed the title to a Missile upgrade card, as you suggested. Going to playtest this morning.

Combat computer system seems pretty powerful, dual Evades can shake a lot of damage - I might tone it down or bring the cost up - additionally, it's a system upgrade that doesn't help any ship with systems that can't use evade - which currently is both of them. I'd consider one of the following...

Combat computer systems - When defending against an attack, you may convert one (focus) result to an (Evade) result. 3 points maybe.. . Though this steps on luke skywalker's ability a bit... so maybe have it change a blank result to an evade result but make it 4 points.. - but gives you a boost for every defense roll...

Combat computer system - When defending against an attack, you may immediately spend a (Focus token) to change all (Blank) results to (Evade results), you may not modify your defense dice again this combat. (3 points) - this lets you pretty much guarantee evades if you have a focus - downside is that you can't use it to convert your focus results into evade results - and gives you a "stronger focus" - equivalent to what you'd expect on attack dice 6/8 instead of 5/8, but you now have the ability to do blanks or focus results. - granted, having two focus tokens would be insanely powerful with this (against a single attack anyway) so I added the limiting text, though the wording might not be perfect, as you have to prevent focus for eyes before focus for blanks as well as the other order.

Another version of the above one might be ...

Combat computer system - when defending against an attack, treat all blank results as focus results, and all focus results as blank results. 1 point. This version is weaker as you can't choose between blanks or focus, but it does increase the odds across the board, and is better for high agility ships - giving this version a bigger boost on the advanced than on the shuttle or b-wing.

P.S. as awesome as a systems slot is - now you're using even more points on your Advanced, so you'd want to be able to take very cheap systems. This solution makes the ship better, but even more expensive - so it doesn't really address the "overcosting" That you seem to be setting out to fix.

So you have a system upgrade slot instead of a missile slot - and its still 2-3 points too much.

What are you going to equip? Do you think any of the existing system upgrades would change the fact that this ship isn't used in competitive play?

You also have to be extremely careful with the Advanced - because you don't want to overpower Vader.

Vader deserves it to be overpowered. Would be the only Imperial pilot then ^^

but at the end - unless you give him a natural attack power of 3, you can't overpower him.

I don't think natural attack 3 overpowers him too much (provided his cost goes up)- giving him a "third" action will (IE the above mentioned double evades) FCS is pretty awesome for him.

As for Vader. Don't forget he flies a Tie Advanced X1. So if you go strictly according to the rules, he can't upgrade with your Tie Advanced upgrades, because it's doesn't state it on the card you created. It only states TIE Advanced.

Give him a "missile" system that gives him +1 primary weapon attack. That would be enough for me and put it on par with X-Wing as an all around fighter. Done.

... like an additional pair of lasers instead of missile lauchers?

My thought be behind Tempest Leader, Advanced x2 Missile, and Combat Computer System is to turn an Advanced (Correct eagletsi111 Vader could not use this missile because he is an x1) into an Evade factory; much like Kyle and the HWK w/ Recon. If this isn't over powered on the Rebel side, then the Evade factory should also be balanced. I realize a evade is better than focus at defense and I attempt to balance this by not allowing the Advance evade factory to keep any unused tokens (such as the HWK can do).

... like an additional pair of lasers instead of missile lauchers?

More or less, Or an "amplifier" module for the lasers or whatever sci fi/Star Wars jargon you need to justify it.The point is to give the Advanced a niche between the frail grunt of a basic TIE and the nimble assassin of the Interceptor. It's there as a tougher dogfighter, but not quite the gunship that the TIE Defender will apparently be. It would be on par with the X, having +1 Agility against the lack of an Astromech (and Torpedo). I'd use that ship in a heartbeat as an affordable, resilient "reasonably costed" fighter.

The other part is that while I appreciate the OPs efforts, I don't see the Empire ever having the "support ship" role, per se. That's the Rebels. They stick together and thus have these synergies. Empire wouldn't bother; they'd just throw more or better ships at you ilnstead. So, give them a better ship in a hole they currently have: the balanced fighter.

Giving up the missile (and maybe paying a few points) for an added attack die seems fair to me. I've added it to the list in the original post.

Giving up the missile (and maybe paying a few points) for an added attack die seems fair to me. I've added it to the list in the original post.

The point adjustment would probably be minor. Currently, the costs are identical to X-wings:

Rookie / Tempest 21

Red / Storm 23

Vader / Antilles 29

Steele in the ballpark of Garven/Luke

This mod is giving up some versatility, but you're still a +1 AGI ship, so how much is that worth over an Astromech with some nifty abilities and a torpedo slot? 1 point? 2 at most? Any more than that and it's overcosted again.

Giving up the missile (and maybe paying a few points) for an added attack die seems fair to me. I've added it to the list in the original post.

The point adjustment would probably be minor. Currently, the costs are identical to X-wings:

Rookie / Tempest 21

Red / Storm 23

Vader / Antilles 29

Steele in the ballpark of Garven/Luke

This mod is giving up some versatility, but you're still a +1 AGI ship, so how much is that worth over an Astromech with some nifty abilities and a torpedo slot? 1 point? 2 at most? Any more than that and it's overcosted again.

It should be worth nothing to make up for the TIE Advanced being overcosted as it is now.

Giving up the missile (and maybe paying a few points) for an added attack die seems fair to me. I've added it to the list in the original post.

The point adjustment would probably be minor. Currently, the costs are identical to X-wings:

Rookie / Tempest 21

Red / Storm 23

Vader / Antilles 29

Steele in the ballpark of Garven/Luke

This mod is giving up some versatility, but you're still a +1 AGI ship, so how much is that worth over an Astromech with some nifty abilities and a torpedo slot? 1 point? 2 at most? Any more than that and it's overcosted again.

It should be worth nothing to make up for the TIE Advanced being overcosted as it is now.

I think both of you make valid arguments. It should be between 0 and 2 points. I'm not sure 0 is fair and 2 may be too many points, but it is a starting point. We should build some mock lists, starting at 2 points, and see how it fairs against other current Imperial ships and lists.

If you made a title card that allowed the Advanced to take Systems Upgrade cards, it would only work if any new System Upgrade cards that were included in the expansion were titled Tie Advanced Only. If they were not, then you really wouldn't be fixing the problem with the Advanced since anyone(with System Upgrade) could take them too. IMO the Advance needs a title card similar to Awings Chaardan Refit to cut its cost.

If you made a title card that allowed the Advanced to take Systems Upgrade cards, it would only work if any new System Upgrade cards that were included in the expansion were titled Tie Advanced Only. If they were not, then you really wouldn't be fixing the problem with the Advanced since anyone(with System Upgrade) could take them too. IMO the Advance needs a title card similar to Awings Chaardan Refit to cut its cost.

Part of this I agree with. But does it hurt the Advanced if other ships can use my proposed system? The B-wing can't take the evade action.

Giving up the missile (and maybe paying a few points) for an added attack die seems fair to me. I've added it to the list in the original post.

The point adjustment would probably be minor. Currently, the costs are identical to X-wings:

Rookie / Tempest 21

Red / Storm 23

Vader / Antilles 29

Steele in the ballpark of Garven/Luke

This mod is giving up some versatility, but you're still a +1 AGI ship, so how much is that worth over an Astromech with some nifty abilities and a torpedo slot? 1 point? 2 at most? Any more than that and it's overcosted again.

It should be worth nothing to make up for the TIE Advanced being overcosted as it is now.

I think both of you make valid arguments. It should be between 0 and 2 points. I'm not sure 0 is fair and 2 may be too many points, but it is a starting point. We should build some mock lists, starting at 2 points, and see how it fairs against other current Imperial ships and lists.

Needs to be at least 1 pt. It would be better than X-wing (better dial, better AGI); that's worth more than astro/torp options. Playtest them directly against Xs and you'll see it fairly quick.

Giving up the missile (and maybe paying a few points) for an added attack die seems fair to me. I've added it to the list in the original post.

The point adjustment would probably be minor. Currently, the costs are identical to X-wings:

Rookie / Tempest 21

Red / Storm 23

Vader / Antilles 29

Steele in the ballpark of Garven/Luke

This mod is giving up some versatility, but you're still a +1 AGI ship, so how much is that worth over an Astromech with some nifty abilities and a torpedo slot? 1 point? 2 at most? Any more than that and it's overcosted again.

It should be worth nothing to make up for the TIE Advanced being overcosted as it is now.

I think both of you make valid arguments. It should be between 0 and 2 points. I'm not sure 0 is fair and 2 may be too many points, but it is a starting point. We should build some mock lists, starting at 2 points, and see how it fairs against other current Imperial ships and lists.

Needs to be at least 1 pt. It would be better than X-wing (better dial, better AGI); that's worth more than astro/torp options. Playtest them directly against Xs and you'll see it fairly quick.

That's my first thought. Going to run 2 X-wings vs 2 Advanced (with proposed upgrades). Then I'm going to run 2 Advanced plus 2/3 other ships Vs. a 4 ship Rebel squad.