Yes, because we saw Vader shoot so many missiles in the trench over the deathstar..

I have always thought missiles on the Advanced was lackluster... and no, I haven't played any of the video games.. I suck at those and find no fun in dieing all the time... I think a refit card for it would be best, and giving it fire control or even advanced sensors would be fine. I have only used missiles on the advanced because I needed to spend points, its nice when they connect, but dice aren't always helpful there.

We also didn't see the X-Wings use their protons against other starfighters, but you can. It would be a lackluster weapon system in this game if you can only use it against Deathstars.

We can hope.. lol.. no harm in trying.

Yes, because we saw Vader shoot so many missiles in the trench over the deathstar..

I have always thought missiles on the Advanced was lackluster... and no, I haven't played any of the video games.. I suck at those and find no fun in dieing all the time... I think a refit card for it would be best, and giving it fire control or even advanced sensors would be fine. I have only used missiles on the advanced because I needed to spend points, its nice when they connect, but dice aren't always helpful there.

We also didn't see the X-Wings use their protons against other starfighters, but you can. It would be a lackluster weapon system in this game if you can only use it against Deathstars.

But they were used, and that is the point... not one missile was used by an advanced in the movies..

Vader's Advance in the movie could have been one of the earliest prototypes. depending on how early a model, the installation of a missile launching system could have been introduced much later for the mass production models..

This game is rampant with stretched areas of belief, but there is material that supports missiles on a Tie Advanced. Because movie only people aren't learned in such things, doesn't make them untrue.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE_Advanced_x1

You also don't see him use his hyperdive to escape back to the Emperor all emo, but we can be sure he did.

Protons are also strictly anti Capital ship weapons. They are way too slow to hit or even track dog fighting star fighters, but they are in the game as such. Actually, the scale of most games sort of rules out missiles as proper dog fighting weapons, but I think most people prefer versaility and options over strict adherence to what we saw in the movies.

Vader's Advance in the movie could have been one of the earliest prototypes. depending on how early a model, the installation of a missile launching system could have been introduced much later for the mass production models..

The movie is simply a bad foundation to rationalize....almost anything. He was blasting fighters apart with a solid blaster hit. Missiles are a tad over kill.

Also, any Tie was able to have limited missile capacity attached to them in the form of disposable launchers. It just wasn't very common.

To be fair, I am fairly knowledgeable about Star Wars and the EU as I have read almost all of the novels at one time, and have been an avid roleplayer of various systems for Star Wars for near 30 years...

That said, I never really looked deeper into the TIE advanced due to not needing it in a game. I've been more interested in YTs and various other freighters for the RPGs.

As for 'movie only' knowledge... those are the pinnacle of canon information. So I consider that info more that information that comes after. Were the movies incomplete in knowledge.. probably, were they lacking in major details.. again possibly.. but they are where this all comes from.. they are the beginning of it all.

Your argument that the Advanced is not overcosted because it is the same points as an X-Wing is flawed because the X-Wing is probably slightly overcosted at 21 points.

Many if the math threads here agree that the Rookie Pilot should probably be 20 points, but we assume that this didn't happen because FFG didn't want us fielding 5 X-Wings at 100 points.

Personally I feel that the X-Wing should be one point cheaper and the Advanced Two points cheaper.

If they never reduced them, I'd be perfectly happy. The X-Wing has TONS of options varying from decent to exceptional.

And the Advanced really just needs a few more pilots, and maybe a title/modification or two.

I always love this schematic

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081030151248/starwars/images/3/38/TIEx1_egvv.jpg

It shows nothing about the cluster missiles mentioned in the article. It also shows there is no room internally for such weapons... just food for thought...

Like I said, the video game era did things for playability, not for actual realistic possibilities for such starships

Your argument that the Advanced is not overcosted because it is the same points as an X-Wing is flawed because the X-Wing is probably slightly overcosted at 21 points.

Many if the math threads here agree that the Rookie Pilot should probably be 20 points, but we assume that this didn't happen because FFG didn't want us fielding 5 X-Wings at 100 points.

Personally I feel that the X-Wing should be one point cheaper and the Advanced Two points cheaper.

If they never reduced them, I'd be perfectly happy. The X-Wing has TONS of options varying from decent to exceptional.

And the Advanced really just needs a few more pilots, and maybe a title/modification or two.

Also, I dont hold with much of the 'mathwing' analysis... no one here knows what they do to come up with the number s and abilities... all math guessing is fruitless in my view.. call me crazy...

Your argument that the Advanced is not overcosted because it is the same points as an X-Wing is flawed because the X-Wing is probably slightly overcosted at 21 points.

Many if the math threads here agree that the Rookie Pilot should probably be 20 points, but we assume that this didn't happen because FFG didn't want us fielding 5 X-Wings at 100 points.

Personally I feel that the X-Wing should be one point cheaper and the Advanced Two points cheaper.

If they never reduced them, I'd be perfectly happy. The X-Wing has TONS of options varying from decent to exceptional.

And the Advanced really just needs a few more pilots, and maybe a title/modification or two.

To be fair, I am fairly knowledgeable about Star Wars and the EU as I have read almost all of the novels at one time, and have been an avid roleplayer of various systems for Star Wars for near 30 years...

That said, I never really looked deeper into the TIE advanced due to not needing it in a game. I've been more interested in YTs and various other freighters for the RPGs.

As for 'movie only' knowledge... those are the pinnacle of canon information. So I consider that info more that information that comes after. Were the movies incomplete in knowledge.. probably, were they lacking in major details.. again possibly.. but they are where this all comes from.. they are the beginning of it all.

When the "pinnacle of canon" is restricted to special effects budgets, it isn't something I'd put my entire faith in when determining what makes sense for the lore and the game.

The movies could only touch the surface of what was trying to be communicated compared to EU material and authors. Some more worthy than others of course.

I assume you are from West End Games RPG days? They did a great job taking all the data available available and creating their own.

Like I said, the video game era did things for playability, not for actual realistic possibilities for such starships

Yeah, it keeps surprising me that this game seems to draw so heavily on the video games, especially the really old video games. I've always viewed video games as one of the most suspect sources of canon because they HAVE to sacrifice background for playability.

But then I guess it does make some sense, since this game is basically the X-Wing video game on the tabletop.

Somewhat off topic, but I now wish that they could have fit some flavor text on the named pilot cards. I have no idea who most of these guys are, and if I weren't reading this forum would probably never have realized that Dutch Vander, Ibtisam and Soontir Fel weren't all made up by FFG.

The X-Wing and Tie Fighter series created all their content without conflicting with established norms. With the betrayal of Imperial Admiral Harkov, leading to the build up and betrayal of Grand Admiral Zaarin, who was the head of advanced fighter research, hoping to use his technological superior Tie Avenger and Defenders in forces under his command to assume the throne, the plot was a tad above tier compared to other games stacked against the series. It warrants it's own set of novels to be honest. Not sure if that happened or not.

There is so much content already out there, that FFG benefits from utilizing it if possible. It appeals to a large number of fans over original creative content from them.

There is so much content already out there, that FFG benefits from utilizing it if possible. It appeals to a large number of fans over original creative content from them.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense for them to be using all the EU names available, it just never occurred to me, and I am moderately well versed in the EU. I suspect that a lot of people playing aren't, and so all this background is lost to them.

I'm not gonna argue that point, there is plenty out there as long as Disney doesn't kill EU sources for Canon history. I liked a lot of the EU stuff, I only really disliked the Vong stuff. But that's so far out of the era of the game that it isn't an issue. I am hoping for some Bacta war repaints, I think those would be cool, or various other things that could be turned for our use in the game.. I may have to go dig up my old books and give them a new reading..

I really like the general direction that most of the EU goes in after Jedi; formation of the New Republic which has its growing pains, Empire diminished but still conducting a fighting retreat with periodic rallies when it threatens to shift momentum, until eventually it is reduced to a province sized territory that no longer follows a lot of the "evil" policies from under the Emperor and eventually joins the Republic; while intensely disliking some of the specific treatments and stories. But I am afraid that Disney is going to just invalidate huge swathes of all that so that they can send the universe in a direction they want.

Wow, just double checked what topic this thread is supposed to be, way off topic now, sorry.

Back on topic.

Lando had a Tie Advanced he flew around to entertain people. The young Jedi kids flew 3 of them against the Vong.

the advanced is only meant to be flown by vader the empire has ships that can fill the role they want the advanced to fill. we dont need more advanced really. we have bombers if u wan missles and we have inerceptors if u want attack and we will have defenders soon.

It's the principline of having underused game pieces because they were designed improperly. They suffer from "wave 1-itus".

They fall into the same category as Y-Wings. They need some attention so they aren't completely obsolete and useless.

I wouldn't go as far as to say worthless, but the Advanced does not enjoy the versatility that other ships do. This could easily be fixed.

the advanced is only meant to be flown by vader the empire has ships that can fill the role they want the advanced to fill. we dont need more advanced really. we have bombers if u wan missles and we have inerceptors if u want attack and we will have defenders soon.

That's not true. Vadar's advanced was simply a version he specifically customized. There were other advanced ships. Think of it like a luxury sports car. They are limited expensive and you can have it customized but it is not a unique vehicle.

Once again I'm going to have to blame the standard death match format for the advance being considered a poor ship. In objective based missions or as an assassin the advance is quite good. It's not worth it in the "kill everything" format the FFG encourages though. A-wings and Interceptors have a related problem. I'm really hoping epic and cinematic play fixes this.

Except that pretty much every major battle ever has been a death match. Sure, there are bombing runs and the like, but scenarios like that do not at all foster competitive play. In the end Death Match is what the games is balanced for. If a ship isn't good in a deathmatch it is a bad ship.

Were we to run accurate movie scenarios rebels would get 30 to 50 points for every 100 the empire got.(on a good day for the rebels.) They were always outgunned. We can't base the game off of that. It would be awful. Tournaments would make no sense. Squadbuilding would barely matter. The empire would always win.

They completely foster competitive play. Basic attacker/defender scenarios work incredibly well and in these instances advances would be excellent backup to interceptors (if defending), or escorts for bombers (if attacking). Death match is the standard and always will be, but the also have to follow the lore and that leads to some ships that would clearly be good at things that just aren't part of standard play. And since they are introducing new Official variant formats it makes sense they might possibly address this.

Never asked for accurate movie scenarios, just something more involved than "let's you and him fight".

When I said most battles are deathmatches I was referring to things at the scale xwing offers. We get at most 8 people. Fights like that, they end fast. Sure we're more likely to see some people run off the map at the end rather than get wiped put. But tabletop games have never taken things like morale into account in a reasonable way.

the advanced is only meant to be flown by vader the empire has ships that can fill the role they want the advanced to fill. we dont need more advanced really. we have bombers if u wan missles and we have inerceptors if u want attack and we will have defenders soon.

That's not true. Vadar's advanced was simply a version he specifically customized. There were other advanced ships. Think of it like a luxury sports car. They are limited expensive and you can have it customized but it is not a unique vehicle.

Correct, hence the x1. There are other modified Advances other than Vader's. I just hope they enter the game.

Once again I'm going to have to blame the standard death match format for the advance being considered a poor ship. In objective based missions or as an assassin the advance is quite good. It's not worth it in the "kill everything" format the FFG encourages though. A-wings and Interceptors have a related problem. I'm really hoping epic and cinematic play fixes this.

Except that pretty much every major battle ever has been a death match. Sure, there are bombing runs and the like, but scenarios like that do not at all foster competitive play. In the end Death Match is what the games is balanced for. If a ship isn't good in a deathmatch it is a bad ship.

Were we to run accurate movie scenarios rebels would get 30 to 50 points for every 100 the empire got.(on a good day for the rebels.) They were always outgunned. We can't base the game off of that. It would be awful. Tournaments would make no sense. Squadbuilding would barely matter. The empire would always win.

They completely foster competitive play. Basic attacker/defender scenarios work incredibly well and in these instances advances would be excellent backup to interceptors (if defending), or escorts for bombers (if attacking). Death match is the standard and always will be, but the also have to follow the lore and that leads to some ships that would clearly be good at things that just aren't part of standard play. And since they are introducing new Official variant formats it makes sense they might possibly address this.

Never asked for accurate movie scenarios, just something more involved than "let's you and him fight".

Any form of defense mission in this game firmly favors the attacker(for many reasons). Any scenario play would require two matches, one where each player takes each side, effectively adding half again as much time to each tournament. Each side would need different builds to optimize which sode they were on, adding even more time due to the significant setup and teardown rates of the game, and even with all that it would still creat biases against certain ships. Race objectives 100% favor the imperials. Story play seems innefective, as cool as it would be. Even the scenarios we have would make for terrible time consuming unfair tournaments.

When I said most battles are deathmatches I was referring to things at the scale xwing offers. We get at most 8 people. Fights like that, they end fast. Sure we're more likely to see some people run off the map at the end rather than get wiped put. But tabletop games have never taken things like morale into account in a reasonable way.

As an alternate play mode, those tournaments would likely be much smaller, so two matches wouldn't be an isue, "setup" time for matches is none existent in this game. Either way, tournaments are not the only way to play so it doesn't even remotely matter.

So you're saying that the reason the increased points and scale of engagement modes that have been announced won't lead to a situation where these kinds of ships will do better is because standard play mode works on too small a scale?