Rebel Aces gives us Rebel Darth Vader:

Tycho (26)

+ Chardaan Refit (-2)

+ Push the Limit (3)

+ Hull Upgrade (3)

30 points total.

Darth Vader (29)

Both can perform 2 actions every round, have 2 Attack, and have 3 Agility. Available actions are similar, Vader having Barrel Roll to Tycho's Boost. Dials are similar, as Tycho's extra greens don't mean so much when he's piling on Stress. Alternatively, drop the Hull Upgrade and add A-Wing Test Pilot and Veteran Instincts to Tycho, making him 1 point cheaper than Vader for -1 Hull but +1 PS.

Rebel Aces also gives us Rebel Turr Phennir:

Jake (24)

+ Chardaan Refit (-2)

+ Push the Limit (3)

25 points total.

Turr Phennir (25)

Similar to above, but Turr trades a little defense for offense (-2 Shields, +1 Hull, +1 Attack). And Jake will need to move green to clear Stress, but compared to Turr will be Focused when Boosting/Barrel-Rolling on the same turn.

Discuss!

Vader is still superior because he has that extra hull and is still cheaper for basically the same ship (dial is worse, but still).

Turr and Jake, though appearing similar are different enough in my book to make this comparison tricky. Jake does a free barrel roll or boost action for each focus (at max this will be two, one for each action). This would either happen during the activation phase, at the beginning of the combat phase (Kyle) or after Garven spends his focus and gives it to him. Two of the three happen before he fires . The other (Garven) requires that you give the focus to Jake, and thus deny it to the rest of your squad. He can also be shut down by a well placed Carnor Jax. Jake is a jackrabbit: fast and nimble, but it requires "energy" to "run" so fast.

Turr on the other hand, shoots first and asks questions later then performs his action. Thus he moves after he fires , every time. All he has to do is shoot at someone (not hard to do when your an interceptor). This means he can be in someone's arc, let loose a volley, and then get out of dodge. Turr is a ninja: he strikes and then disappears into the shadows.

Personally, I prefer Turr over Jake just from what I have seen.

Vader is still superior because he has that extra hull and is still cheaper for basically the same ship (dial is worse, but still).

Turr and Jake, though appearing similar are different enough in my book to make this comparison tricky. Jake does a free barrel roll or boost action for each focus (at max this will be two, one for each action). This would either happen during the activation phase, at the beginning of the combat phase (Kyle) or after Garven spends his focus and gives it to him. Two of the three happen before he fires . The other (Garven) requires that you give the focus to Jake, and thus deny it to the rest of your squad. He can also be shut down by a well placed Carnor Jax. Jake is a jackrabbit: fast and nimble, but it requires "energy" to "run" so fast.

Turr on the other hand, shoots first and asks questions later then performs his action. Thus he moves after he fires , every time. All he has to do is shoot at someone (not hard to do when your an interceptor). This means he can be in someone's arc, let loose a volley, and then get out of dodge. Turr is a ninja: he strikes and then disappears into the shadows.

Personally, I prefer Turr over Jake just from what I have seen.

Turr all the way and he's best with PTL. There's almost no situation you can't get Turr out of with two move actions after he fires.

If you want Vader to have boost and the maneuverability of the A-wing, you need to put an engine upgrade on Vader, that'll come to 33 points.

The A-Wing Test Pilot card is a title, so you can run it and the hull upgrade at the same time to make Tycho 1 point more for +1 PS

Vader is still superior because he has that extra hull and is still cheaper for basically the same ship (dial is worse, but still).

Turr and Jake, though appearing similar are different enough in my book to make this comparison tricky. Jake does a free barrel roll or boost action for each focus (at max this will be two, one for each action). This would either happen during the activation phase, at the beginning of the combat phase (Kyle) or after Garven spends his focus and gives it to him. Two of the three happen before he fires . The other (Garven) requires that you give the focus to Jake, and thus deny it to the rest of your squad. He can also be shut down by a well placed Carnor Jax. Jake is a jackrabbit: fast and nimble, but it requires "energy" to "run" so fast.

Turr on the other hand, shoots first and asks questions later then performs his action. Thus he moves after he fires , every time. All he has to do is shoot at someone (not hard to do when your an interceptor). This means he can be in someone's arc, let loose a volley, and then get out of dodge. Turr is a ninja: he strikes and then disappears into the shadows.

Personally, I prefer Turr over Jake just from what I have seen.

Don't forget about Lando or a squad leader. Lando can give out actions after a green maneuver. Still a max of 2 actions from other sources, being unable to the same action twice in a turn. But its not a one trick pony.

Jax would stop Jake from taking the actions, but he could still receive tokens from garvin/kyle. He wouldn't be able to use them in R1 of Jax, but the barrel roll/boost could get him to where he can use them.

Rebel Aces gives us Rebel Darth Vader:

Tycho (26)

+ Chardaan Refit (-2)

+ Push the Limit (3)

+ Hull Upgrade (3)

30 points total.

Darth Vader (29)

Both can perform 2 actions every round, have 2 Attack, and have 3 Agility. Available actions are similar, Vader having Barrel Roll to Tycho's Boost. Dials are similar, as Tycho's extra greens don't mean so much when he's piling on Stress. Alternatively, drop the Hull Upgrade and add A-Wing Test Pilot and Veteran Instincts to Tycho, making him 1 point cheaper than Vader for -1 Hull but +1 PS.

Rebel Aces also gives us Rebel Turr Phennir:

Jake (24)

+ Chardaan Refit (-2)

+ Push the Limit (3)

25 points total.

Turr Phennir (25)

Similar to above, but Turr trades a little defense for offense (-2 Shields, +1 Hull, +1 Attack). And Jake will need to move green to clear Stress, but compared to Turr will be Focused when Boosting/Barrel-Rolling on the same turn.

Discuss!

I'd put Determination or Adrenaline Rush on Vader. This irks me, loading up the Rebels but keeping the Imperials as-is.

Vader was barely making it before, no hope now.

Turr is still a monster, Jake might act liKE him but the "when" is really important.

I'm more worried about the Better Than Fel bwing pilot. That is simply inconseivable.

Vader was barely making it before, no hope now.

Turr is still a monster, Jake might act liKE him but the "when" is really important.

I'm more worried about the Better Than Fel bwing pilot. That is simply inconseivable.

I think the Farscarer will be easier to kill than a well built and well flown Fel. That 1 agility tends to be the failing of bwings time and again. A good focused attack can blast them out of the sky in fairly short order.

Vader was barely making it before, no hope now.

Turr is still a monster, Jake might act liKE him but the "when" is really important.

I'm more worried about the Better Than Fel bwing pilot. That is simply inconseivable.

I was thinking the exact same thing earlier. I don't know how they get away with having two pilots essentially do the same thing, make their point cost identical, but give one of them 5 more HP than the other.

Vader was barely making it before, no hope now.

There is no ship that can do what Vader does for the Empire. You cannot directly compare the A-wing with the Advanced, as the Empire and the Rebels have different structures. Vader is the best support ship the Empire has. Squad Leader was built for him, and his two actions allow him to use it without sacrificing his own action. All this and no stress.

I welcome Farlander's attempts to get Fel in his sights. Heck, I'm sure he welcomes a more expensive B-wing to kill.

Vader is still a bit more flexible than the Tycho combo shown. He can still take a Missile option. Once you start adding Missiles, Tycho mysteriously loses his cost advantage. Also, all those fancy things on Tycho, whereas Vader is still pretty clear. Sure, add the Hull Upgrade, Vader will just add Stealth. Vader can still have the option of K-turning, which is a good option, as much as I love U-turn Tycho.

The hyperbole in these threads the Rebel Aces pack has generated is hilarious. We can't fully understand what the situation will be once the Rebel Aces hits. We have the Defender and Phantom coming, one of whom sets the new standard for attack. Let me tell you, Farlander is not going to enjoy that natural 4 Atk. Plus, I am liking some of the possibilities of the new Elite Talents that come with the Defender. Outmaneuver and Predator sound like something Vader and Fel may enjoy.

I realize after many of these responses that by putting "vs" in the title it looked like I was asking who would win in a fight, when what I really meant was to find out what people thought of the "Build your own Imperial" potential of some of the new pilots and upgrades.

If you want Vader to have boost and the maneuverability of the A-wing, you need to put an engine upgrade on Vader, that'll come to 33 points.

Then Vader can both Boost and Barrel Roll, and to do that on Tycho you'll have to add A-Wing Test Pilot and Expert Handling. 33 points vs 33 points.

The A-Wing Test Pilot card is a title, so you can run it and the hull upgrade at the same time to make Tycho 1 point more for +1 PS

I'm aware of that. I was trying to present different approaches to building similar ships for the Rebellion and the Empire.

Rebel Aces gives us Rebel Darth Vader:

Tycho (26)

+ Chardaan Refit (-2)

+ Push the Limit (3)

+ Hull Upgrade (3)

30 points total.

Darth Vader (29)

Both can perform 2 actions every round, have 2 Attack, and have 3 Agility. Available actions are similar, Vader having Barrel Roll to Tycho's Boost. Dials are similar, as Tycho's extra greens don't mean so much when he's piling on Stress. Alternatively, drop the Hull Upgrade and add A-Wing Test Pilot and Veteran Instincts to Tycho, making him 1 point cheaper than Vader for -1 Hull but +1 PS.

Rebel Aces also gives us Rebel Turr Phennir:

Jake (24)

+ Chardaan Refit (-2)

+ Push the Limit (3)

25 points total.

Turr Phennir (25)

Similar to above, but Turr trades a little defense for offense (-2 Shields, +1 Hull, +1 Attack). And Jake will need to move green to clear Stress, but compared to Turr will be Focused when Boosting/Barrel-Rolling on the same turn.

Discuss!

I'd put Determination or Adrenaline Rush on Vader. This irks me, loading up the Rebels but keeping the Imperials as-is.

You can put whatever you want on either one, again, my point was to build similar ships (which I realize wasn't as clear as it could have been).

Vader is still a bit more flexible than the Tycho combo shown. He can still take a Missile option. Once you start adding Missiles, Tycho mysteriously loses his cost advantage. Also, all those fancy things on Tycho, whereas Vader is still pretty clear. Sure, add the Hull Upgrade, Vader will just add Stealth. Vader can still have the option of K-turning, which is a good option, as much as I love U-turn Tycho.

Vader CAN take missiles, sure, but he doesn't have them in the combo shown. Yes, Tycho has "fancy things on him", to make the points and ships as similar as possible. Vader can't "just add Stealth" because he'd be 2 points more expensive.

Outmaneuver and Predator sound like something Vader and Fel may enjoy.

I've been away from the forums for a while. have they revealed any new card text from any of the wave 4 upgrades?

But that sort of is the point. No one is going to be running a naked Vader. Whereas you have Tycho nearly maxed out on his upgrades. Yes, you can make Tycho similar to a naked Vader, but I'm not going to be running a naked Vader. Tycho is going to end up worse once Vader starts getting tricked out.

No they haven't previewed the new Elite Talents. Outmaneuver sounds like something Interceptors would like, since they can do a lot of Outmaneuvering, and Predator sounds like it could reward higher PS.

Vader: 2A (3 agility) 3H 2S and can take two actions in one round with no stress. Focus, TL, Evade, Barrel Roll 29 Points

Tycho: 2A (3 agility) 2H 2S and you may perform actions when stressed. Fovus, TL, Evade, Boost 26 Points

These are too different ships. Tycho must use his EPT to be similar to Vadar's ability to take two actions, but still must deal with stress. Vader can add an Engine Upgrade, Tycho cannot add a Barrel Roll upgrade. This is just scratching the surface.

They are slightly similar, in a certain way, but these are two different ships with two different strengths and weaknesses.

Except A-wing Test Pilot allows Tycho to take a second Elite Talent. The ability to K-turn shouldn't be underestimated, though.

But that sort of is the point. No one is going to be running a naked Vader. Whereas you have Tycho nearly maxed out on his upgrades. Yes, you can make Tycho similar to a naked Vader, but I'm not going to be running a naked Vader. Tycho is going to end up worse once Vader starts getting tricked out.

No, it's not. While "no one" is running Vader naked, he does have arguable the best pilot ability to run naked. If you start to upgrade Vader, he costs a LOT more than Tycho. In other words, you're completely missing the point of this particular thread. I'll state it as plainly as I can (since I didn't do so in the OP):

Given the following, does the Rebellion have the ability to approximate their own Darth Vader? Why or why not?

I don't think people are really getting what you're trying to point out..or put on the table for discussion. Or however you want to say it.

Given the following, does the Rebellion have the ability to approximate their own Darth Vader? Why or why not?

Tycho (26) (33 total)

+ Chardaan Refit (-2)

+ A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

+ Push the Limit (3)

+ Hull Upgrade (3)

+ Expert Handling (3)

Darth Vader (29) (33 total)

+ Engine Upgrade (4)

Vader is still superior because he has that extra hull and is still cheaper for basically the same ship (dial is worse, but still).

Turr and Jake, though appearing similar are different enough in my book to make this comparison tricky. Jake does a free barrel roll or boost action for each focus (at max this will be two, one for each action). This would either happen during the activation phase, at the beginning of the combat phase (Kyle) or after Garven spends his focus and gives it to him. Two of the three happen before he fires . The other (Garven) requires that you give the focus to Jake, and thus deny it to the rest of your squad. He can also be shut down by a well placed Carnor Jax. Jake is a jackrabbit: fast and nimble, but it requires "energy" to "run" so fast.

Turr on the other hand, shoots first and asks questions later then performs his action. Thus he moves after he fires , every time. All he has to do is shoot at someone (not hard to do when your an interceptor). This means he can be in someone's arc, let loose a volley, and then get out of dodge. Turr is a ninja: he strikes and then disappears into the shadows.

Personally, I prefer Turr over Jake just from what I have seen.

Turr all the way and he's best with PTL. There's almost no situation you can't get Turr out of with two move actions after he fires.

I would disagree, giving Turr Push the Limit only stops his ability later on every turn you use it. You can't take a free action if your stressed.

And I would say that Jake is better than Turr because he has the ability to use that free movement whenever a focus is given to him as well. With Push the Limit, and with Kyle Katarn focus factory, or Garven nearby he could really get some movement in each round.

Again, Turr is an Interceptor. Getting a stress he can easily shed is not a bad deal.

Jake's issue is that while he can use it to get into a position for a shot, he can't really use it to get out of rough situations he may be in. Turr can be maneuvered into a position where he wouldn't have shot, but it's okay because he already has on. Jake, that's a bad idea.

This doesn't take away from the fact that Jake is very good, and has some great combos in faction. But Turr works far better solo. Which I'm finding to be an interesting facet of the Interceptors I like.

I would disagree, giving Turr Push the Limit only stops his ability later on every turn you use it. You can't take a free action if your stressed.

The purpose of giving Turr PtL is so he can barrel roll AND boost to get out of line of sight after having shot, not to use it during the activation phase.

So, during activation phase, you take a focus action. You attack at PS 7, use your free action to boos or Barrel roll, then use PtL to do the other or give yourself an evade token if you can't get out of shot.

So they work close to the same, but there is really a difference in how they handle during combat phase. Jake is better during activation phase, Turr during Combat. But Jake doesn't need to shoot to activate his ability so, if someone in your squad, Garven or Kyle, can give you a focus, you can effectively take 4 actions, which is really good!

The power of Turr is not that you can do a lot of actions, it's that you can take a good shot in range 1 and then get away without being shot at.

Ok, I didn't realize that push the limit could also be used with Turr's ability outside of taking normal actions. Thanks for pointing that out. I still think veteran instincts can be a good alternative as well though.

I play both factions, so I am happy with the double EPT from RebAces, and the double Mods from ImpAces, but I would have loved to be able to put double EPTs on my Interceptors.

Turr with PTL + VI would be awesome!