Right so here is the situation in the present Deathwatch scenario I am running for my PCs.

Kill Team has been sent to a prosperous Civilised/Agri World called Apatal to destroy a very large Ork warband which is on the verge of going 'Waaagh'.

Specifically they are to

• Contain the Greenskins,
• Find out some information about them (not relevant to this post)
• Kill the Warboss.

Unfortunatly they were delayed in their mission by the small matter of being merged onto the Mortis Thule (we played Ark of Lost Souls). They have now emerged from the warp and it is four months later the Orks are far bigger in number, the PDF can barely cope with containing them and it has all gone wrong. Therefore in the meantime the Imperium asked for assistance from the 'Red Tigers' Space Marines (home brew chapter) to destroy the greenskins.

Kill Team as a matter of honour have continued their mission and have made all speed to the world.

The main restriction PCs and Imperial forces in general are facing is that the Administratum are insisting that the tithe production of the world isn't compromised. This means no scorched earth tactics or indiscriminate orbital bombardment.

While the Administratum aren't really in a position to dictate terms to the Ordo Xenos or a Space Marine Chapter to begin with all the parties involved see the merits in the request (the Agri world is reasonably important with supplying a nearby warzone with food) and so go along with it.

Unfortunatly the Red Tigers are growing rather impatient with the situation and are increasingly looking just to glass the whole Peninsula the Orks are based on and get out of dodge. Therefore as the conflict goes on they start using lance strikes, then limited Orbital Bombardment and so on....

The Administratum is getting increasingly agitated. Unfortunatly the representative has limited self awareness that he is a bueaucrat and his opposite number is a 200 year old 7 1/2 foot Veteran Sgt Killing Machine. The Adminsitratum official also has 0 diplomatic skills.

So that is the long and short of it. Now here is the question. The Administratum official may well end up sending a very public very angry letter to the Red Tiger commanding officer denouncing him as lacking honour, disobeying legitimate orders from a representative of Terra and generally breaking his oaths as an Astartes.

How far do you guys reckon I should go with having the Red Tigers respond? I want to create a crisis and one that might turn violent. But I don't want a situation where the Red Tigers could be genuinely considered rogue by the Kill Team.

For the record the Red Tigers have a Gladius Rapid Strike Vessel about 35 marines and a couple of tanks.

Have them ignore the letters of the puny bureaucrat while battle with the greenskins is underway?

Until the players, bearing the symbol of the holy Inquisition, come into play, that is.

Alex

The thing is though, the Astartes do not have political power over the Administratum either. The Ordo Xenos and Deathwatch are a branch of the Inquisition but as discussed in another thread they are not Inquisitors and nor do they have full mandate to do whatever they please and wind up whoever they want and messing with a bureaucrat no matter how minor could have repercussions. They may indeed find out that he knows a guy who knows a guy who knows another guy who directly controls their requisition supplies for the next few missions and that by wronging him, the right backs get scratched to mean they lose a chunk of resources.

The Administratum could also perhaps call on an Inquisitor as a mediator, someone who has perhaps a little more influence over the future of the team albeit also limited in authority over the Deathwatch. This could increase the tension as they are required to entertain an Inquisitor (not all of them massively competent but still dangerous and powerful in their authority over others) which could continue to delay them further.

As an entity, the Administratum is far more powerful than the Astartes due to the potential disruption it could cause to anything they do.

Ahem. The Deathwatch bear the terrifying symbol of the holy Inquisition. And while an Administratum official might know someone who might know someone, the the Deathwatch have access to multiple Inquisitors.

The paper pushers are way too spineless to risk any serious confrontation!

Alex

The power of a Deathwatch machine is extensive but not absolute. They may be able to force the admin guy to move but at what cost? If you're looking at guardsmen for example, usually men are loyal to their commanding officer and will follow the orders of their superior officer without question. Sometimes this causes friction if the command structure changes. You may get the sergeant to see reason or back down but his men may not immediately follow someone else just coming in and ordering them about when they are used to following his orders. You could do the same with this. Perhaps the consequences of forcing them to back down would result in a very slow inefficient withdrawal as the bureaucrat drags his heels to the best of his ability out of spite. He's co-operating but only barely.

You can though, still go for calling in another Inquisitor perhaps another Ordo Xenos Inquisitor or just to really shake things up, Ordo Hereticus as he believes the marines may be overstepping their mark and destroying valued Imperial assets with no true cause. Whether they are or not is another matter but another branch of the Imperium stepping in is a powerful delay to build the tension.

Also, the core rulebook says that the Administratum is one of the most powerful organisations and this is purely due to the level of access they have and the far reaching effect. Every organisation, Adeptus Astartes, Munitorium, Ordo Malleus, Xenos, Hereticus, Mechanicus...all of it has to eventually go through the Administratum. One wrongly filled out form could delay their requisitions, get their fleets dispatched to the wrong co-ordinates...they are far beyond some blockheads in power armour.

You have clearly never had to deal with some paper pushers in various government buildings...the amount of power some of those people have, one tick in the wrong box can entirely mess things up, speaking from personal experience!

Thanks for the replies guys!

For the sake of clarity;

• The Administratum guy is probably reasonably influencial in terms of his rank but wouldn't be missed personally. Also he is basically a self obsessed idiot who literally has no fear of the physicial repurcussions that *issing off a marine might have and would be quite happy to say the things in the letter to the Red Tigers face.

• From the PCs point of view they are stuck in the middle because on the one hand they also don't want the tithe production compromised (it is a secondary mission perameter and will cost the PCs mucho renown) but they also know that the Red Tigers will probably be needed to help against the orks

• Finally all parties are on the clock here as the best estimate of the Inquisitorial Acolyte Ork Hunter assisgned to the Kill Team (as an adviser not their boss) is that the Orks are going to go Waaagh in about 10 days. Too short a space of time to appeal to a higher authority.

I like the idea that the Tigers just ignore the Administratum guy and begin burning swathes off the planet.....

The power of a Deathwatch machine is extensive but not absolute. [...]

Hmmh, point taken. This is where FFG's deviation from the original material could actually prove to be a disadvantage for the Deathwatch. In GW fluff, Deathwatch squad leaders operate with full Inquisitorial authority, representing the Ordo Xenos whenever their unit is not led by an Inquisitor directly. In this version of the setting, however, the Deathwatch is "merely" an ally of the Inquisition, so its influence on other Imperial organisations may indeed be much less considerable.

That being said, personally I don't believe that Space Marine Chapters are as much dependent on the Administratum as other branches of the Imperium, at least after their Founding is complete. They have their fief - the Chapter homeworld - and are pretty much supposed to maintain their independence with the resources and manpower gained from this one world. Individual Chapters that require ongoing support such as munitions from a Forgeworld would be more of an exception rather than a rule; what the Space Marines need, they build themselves. This level of independence is what makes it possible to have some Chapters go rogue in the first place. If they'd depend on Imperial support for their everyday business it would be just about impossible for them to not "play ball".

[edit] Thanks for the clarifications!

I feel that one thing to remember is that against "outside threats", people tend to stick together - and this goes for the Administratum as well, even if their envoy normally would not be missed. This is an organisation very much aware of its power and influence, and they might decide to try and push back simply because they're not used to taking gak from anybody.

An exception to this, however, would be if either the envoy has enemies within his own faction who might just wait for him to make a mistake and get himself killed or replaced, or if the Red Tigers have friends elsewhere within this organisation.

I also think it's cool that the Kill-team finds itself stuck between these two possibilities and has a hard time deciding which way to go. A different kind of challenge for a change. Maybe they can find a compromise? But that's up to the players. In the end, they always have their mission parameters to fall back on - this little crisis is really just about "going the extra mile" and playing good guys for a bit.

Hmmh, point taken. This is where FFG's deviation from the original material could actually prove to be a disadvantage for the Deathwatch. In GW fluff, Deathwatch squad leaders operate with full Inquisitorial authority, representing the Ordo Xenos whenever their unit is not led by an Inquisitor directly. In this version of the setting, however, the Deathwatch is "merely" an ally of the Inquisition, so its influence on other Imperial organisations may indeed be much less considerable.

Since practically noone has Forbidden Lore (Inquisition) I consider that distinction largely immaterial though. Also, I wasn't alluding to the actual authority the Deathwatch may or may not have. Instead consider the terror that the spanish inquisition placed into people's hearts. Now imagine one of their members as a demi-god of war.

Alex

The power of a Deathwatch machine is extensive but not absolute. [...]

Hmmh, point taken. This is where FFG's deviation from the original material could actually prove to be a disadvantage for the Deathwatch. In GW fluff, Deathwatch squad leaders operate with full Inquisitorial authority, representing the Ordo Xenos whenever their unit is not led by an Inquisitor directly. In this version of the setting, however, the Deathwatch is "merely" an ally of the Inquisition, so its influence on other Imperial organisations may indeed be much less considerable.

While I generally dislike the move away from direct Inquisitorial control in this fluff, I also think it creates much more interesting opportunities than the steamrolling allowed by "Kill-Sergeant effectively is an Inquisitor in terms of authority." That sure would get boring fast.

Next session is on Saturday. I'll be sure to let you guys know how it went.

Since practically noone has Forbidden Lore (Inquisition) I consider that distinction largely immaterial though. Also, I wasn't alluding to the actual authority the Deathwatch may or may not have. Instead consider the terror that the spanish inquisition placed into people's hearts. Now imagine one of their members as a demi-god of war.

To be fair, someone who is not intimidated by a red Space Marine may not be intimidated by a black Space Marine either...

Of course, the PCs faking to be something they are not, or perhaps rather twisting the truth a bit, by making their connection to the Inquisition seem bigger than it actually is would be an option! It probably depends on how mischievous they feel (as well as what Chapters they belong to).

While I generally dislike the move away from direct Inquisitorial control in this fluff, I also think it creates much more interesting opportunities than the steamrolling allowed by "Kill-Sergeant effectively is an Inquisitor in terms of authority." That sure would get boring fast.

I suppose that's true! Depending on the scenario, even Inquisitorial authority doesn't solve everything - not if you don't know who you can truly trust (I've recently read a rather cool Deathwatch comic about an Inquisitor and his squad investigating a Genestealer infestation) - but limited access may force the players to seek alternative solutions more often, and try their hands at diplomacy.

Visitor Q: Best of luck and have fun!

Hmmh, point taken. This is where FFG's deviation from the original material could actually prove to be a disadvantage for the Deathwatch. In GW fluff, Deathwatch squad leaders operate with full Inquisitorial authority, representing the Ordo Xenos whenever their unit is not led by an Inquisitor directly. In this version of the setting, however, the Deathwatch is "merely" an ally of the Inquisition, so its influence on other Imperial organisations may indeed be much less considerable.

Since practically noone has Forbidden Lore (Inquisition) I consider that distinction largely immaterial though. Also, I wasn't alluding to the actual authority the Deathwatch may or may not have. Instead consider the terror that the spanish inquisition placed into people's hearts. Now imagine one of their members as a demi-god of war.

Alex

What, you mean this kind of Spanish Inquisition?

You should look into the background of the Black Templars. They had an Admin representative question their honor and threaten them similarly to assist the Jericho Reach Crusade. He was never heard from again and everyone pretty much swept it under the carpet as his just deserts for treating them like that. The next time they were contacted it was much more polite...

You should look into the background of the Black Templars. They had an Admin representative question their honor and threaten them similarly to assist the Jericho Reach Crusade. He was never heard from again and everyone pretty much swept it under the carpet as his just deserts for treating them like that. The next time they were contacted it was much more polite...

Yep. I was thinking of this incident when I thought of the scenario.

Twist here is that the PCs kinda also want the 'Red Tigers' to tone down what they are doing even though the Administratum guy is being a bit of a jackass about it.

Seems two options for Red Tigers then are either

a) Ignore Administratum request and start bombarding planet.

b) Position vessel above Administratum HQ on planet deep strike in and disappear the offending official.

Both of which create a crisis but probably aren't enough to lead to the full scale censure of the Chapter.

One thing this scenario is meant to do as well is to highlight to the PCs that how they operate is far more subtle and unorthodox than normal marine Chapters able to call upon the might of their organisation.

I also think it's cool that the Kill-team finds itself stuck between these two possibilities and has a hard time deciding which way to go. A different kind of challenge for a change. Maybe they can find a compromise? But that's up to the players. In the end, they always have their mission parameters to fall back on - this little crisis is really just about "going the extra mile" and playing good guys for a bit.

Yeah and btw I have found a perfectly legitimate way of crafting a Deathwatch scenario is to actually have plenty of combat in there background wise but focus on the RP stuff game time wise.

So for example PCs given mission to storm a fortress.

Assuming they have done their due dilligence in choosing appropriate equipment, make good tactics roles etc the combat encounters could be limited to a few well positioned gun nests or a particularly tricky enemy strongpoint. The rest of the hard slog through the fortress albeit against inferior foes can just be described.

Then the real challenege is negotiating the byzantine politics of the Inquisition, Imperial authorities and even the multiple Chapters within the deathwatch.

It depends on the PCs of course. A few of my players like the idea that they are basically playing Knights and like to focus on political side of things. Others have very combat orientated characters. There is a Flesh Tearer assault marine who with his trophy rack has a Fel of -01 and he really likes getting stuck in. So I need to cater the scenarios for all of them.

An Administratum official is doubtlessly capable of inconveniencing the Tigers. There's a whole scale of escalation, ranging from verbal to something bordering on sabotage, like redirecting orbital civilian traffic or automated bulk transport barges above the Ork-infested area to block it from strikes. He might contact other institutions, too - if there's an ancient shrine to the Emperor on infected ground, a high-ranking family member of the governor or a Rogue Trader supposedly enslaved by Orks, or the planet feeds a nearby Forge World, he can quickly gather allies.

The only thing I'm unsure about is who has the authority to declare martial law. The Comissariat surely can, just as high-ranking IG officers, but Astartes? Are they so far removed from the official Imperial procedures, that such a token nod to the bureaucracy doesn't even occur to them?

The Astartes, on the other hand, might just simply invite the hapless drone to their strike cruiser for some meeting, and lock him up, until the issue is resolved, or get the IG on their side and let the Administrator complain to an unlucky "liaison between civilian and military authorities."

The 'factions' on the planet are

Duke. Governor of the planet and leader of the PDF. Means well and is loyal neither particularly brave nor cowardly. Has fought wars before but never against xenos. Dealing with the horror that a bizzare fungus alien has just landed down on his previously beautiful agri world and the personal tragedy of having his son killed by an Ork storm trooper.

Imperial Guard Colonel. Experienced Siege/Trench warfare officer but again never against xenos. Somewhat out of his depth and lacking resources following some early mistakes. Not an idiot and will listen to sound advice but is both proud and stubborn. He has connections to IG high command and can't be easily executed. His orders were to contain orks while Deathwatch dealt with them (this was before Deathwatch were delayed by several months). So his Commissar can't just execute/remove him as technically he is following orders.

These guys are broadly following a strategy of 'containing' the orks on a peninsula and wearing them down through attrition. If the space marines want to attack the greenskins directly that's up to them. Their lack of experience vs orks means they don't fully understand that this war of attrition won't break the orks either in terms of morale or 'manpower' (orkpower?)

Adminsitratum official. Just interested in making sure farms and agri production facilities on world aren't damaged as much as possible. Has zero interest in how war is won as it isn't his job. A petty, self obsessed, stupid little man with no sense of self preservation and a belief that as long as procedure is followed results are irrelevant, Only thing going for him is that the agri world does happen to be pretty important as a supply base for a major warzone nearby. In addition he is correct that Orbital Bombardment would kick up a lot of dust, plasma radiation, ionised gas [insert techno-babble] that would disrupt the world's fairly delicate eco system.

Deathwatch: The PCs. Here to gather some info about the Orks, kill the warboss. make sure the world is still usable afterwards and generally save the day. Unfortunatly have been delayed by several months and things have deterioated from an Ork raiding party into a full scale war.

Red Tigers Astartes diverted from nearby warzone to deal with Orks. Now find themselves having to deal with mortals not interested in launching a full scale counter attack and bureacrats who say they can't use Orbital Bombardments. Growing frustrated as they see a quick way of destroying the orks. Want to be done with the matter and return to the 'real war'

I like the idea of inviting the Administratum to a conference and locking him up. I think Pcs migth end up trying that lol!

Out of curiosity, what is the make-up of your KT? What ranks and advanced Specialties are they as well?
Personally, I'd get the Marine with the best chances of winning in talks with both the Administratum and the Red Tigers, set them down and lay out my own plan for dealing with the Ork threat.

Here would be my proposal: My KT would insert itself behind enemy lines and take out the Warboss in a decapitation attack while the Red Tigers stage a diversionary attack to draw attention away from the Warboss. We would propose to have this done in a time best suited to both parties and should our plan succeed, would then offer our services in eliminating any successors to the Warboss to further weaken the Ork Waaaaagh!

Out of curiosity, what is the make-up of your KT? What ranks and advanced Specialties are they as well?

Personally, I'd get the Marine with the best chances of winning in talks with both the Administratum and the Red Tigers, set them down and lay out my own plan for dealing with the Ork threat.

Here would be my proposal: My KT would insert itself behind enemy lines and take out the Warboss in a decapitation attack while the Red Tigers stage a diversionary attack to draw attention away from the Warboss. We would propose to have this done in a time best suited to both parties and should our plan succeed, would then offer our services in eliminating any successors to the Warboss to further weaken the Ork Waaaaagh!

Squad Leader: Tactical Marine 'Brothers Stoic' Chapter (Codex/Ultramarines Chapter). Very good at diplomacy not so good at combat to the extent that the other PCs joke the trials for the Brothers Stoic is winning the school debating championship.

[Your plan has some merit with him around]

Missile Launcher wielding Tactical Marine 'Black Shield'. General all rounder.

Assault specialist/Bezerker. Assault Marine Flesh Tearer. Powergamer (and I use the term affectionatly).wants to get stuck in and destroy everything.

Techmarine. Iron Hands. Very tough.

Sniper/Medic. Raptor Apocathary. Pragmatic soldier and plays in character.

Finally a Pilot/Gunslinger. Blackshield undetermined specialisation NPC. Acts as general jack of all trades useful for giving red herrings/hints to PC and things the Kill Team would know but the players don't. Doesn't get in the way of them being in the lime light. At the moment is on thier space craft guarding the horses monitering the planet via ship sensors.

I think your plan would have a very good chance of working. Will be interesting to see what they decide. Game starts 10:00 tomorrow. Post this evening.

Looking foward to this one!

That plan is very much what Deathwatch (and to some extent Astartes as a whole) is all about. Marines hit the Warboss, causing the other Nobs to fight it out. While destracted the Red Tigers hit Mek Workshops/Gargants under construction. The Marines just continue to nip like hyenas on a lion until the PDF/Guard can mop them up. Marines do best when hitting sensative targets or reinforcing the spine of IG units, not protracted battle.

UPDATE: Well the complication of the confrontation between the Red Tigers Space Marines and the Administratum hasn't happened yet. The PCs spent more time meeting and speaking with an Ork Hunter Acolyte of the Ordo Xenos and the Governor of the planet than I expected and then planning in detail their insertion into Ork territory so we only had time to do the first major battle.

The PCs attacked the Ork airfield. It was initially meant to be a very quick hit and run raid on bikes but the PCs spent ages on a hilltop overlooking the ork encampment discussing their plan and eventually the orks spotted them! The ensuing fight when the hit the airfield was very bloody and drawn out. They were victorious but were roughed up a bit and two of them lost fate points.

Special mention to the Raptor who drove his bike at a plane trying to take off. He leapt from the bike onto side of plane, scrambled up the side, flung open the door boltered the Ork to the face.

At the same time a Deff Kopter was shot down and slammed into the cockpit of the plane. Raptor takes a piece of debri from Kopter and puts it on accelerator peddle and sends Ork fighter jet careening into a mob of orks.

Mission complication is 'Cut Off' which they are only just starting to realise. So they are now behind enemy lines and are planning to attack the Ork 'Orbital Defence Kannon'. After that extraction should be interesting....

Anyway I think thematically when the Red Tigers realise that they can now assume air and orbital superiority they might start their first bombing runs, lance strikes and orbital bombardments and precipitate the crisis with the Administratum.

It'll be three weeks before the next session so hopefully it won't be too much of a necropost when I update you guys as to what happens next.

I can't wait to hear about the next session. Your Raptor player seems like he'd be a hoot to play along side of him.